theleelajoker

Ok last one for you (from other meme thread, slightly changed)

I tried making this point in various posts, but failed miserably to communicate that idea in an appropriate way 🙈 I would like to extent it and say "how come we cannot experience and enjoy reality without constant need for label/concept idea"? But I get the impression that this message appears like blasphemy to quite a few in this forum🤷‍♀️

@Joshe You do you. Don't see that further input form my side is constructive.

Tell me two "things" or "people" or "experiences" that are exactly the same.

One thing is to tie your identity to these language labels, the other is to mistake your world for reality, the map for the territory. Categories can be useful - fire is hot, fire burns, don't touch fire. In terms of dealing with people, and other life situations, it is my experience that it limits your experience, typically keeps you stuck in the mental realm. You seem that point as trivial. I say read the books I mentioned. I say look at your last 1,5, 10 years of your life. Check all your mental models. How many of them have changed? How you think you'll look back at this ND discussion and your current model of "people" in 3,6, 12 months?

Me: recommending a book that shows how easily (parts of) the brain fools us when building models. And how we stick to it despite overwhelming evidence. (Watzlawik is also a good source) You: "my model is correct" 😂😂😂

Book recommendation: "no self, no problem" from Chris Niebauer. Part of human loves COHERENCE, not truth. You see what you want to see.

😂😂😂 Thanks for making me laugh. But I don't identify with this. NOT AT ALL. I'm unique, with a unique perspective of life. Same as anyone else. Who is this so called majority of NT people? Where is this so called NT society with different neurological processing than the so called ND's? I don't care much about some YouTube videos or similar, I focus on my direct field of experience through interaction. And when I do, and I go out into the world, all I see is unique individuals. Talk to those "NTs" and I'm pretty sure you'll loose these labels and categories.

IMO, this thread is mainly a collection of projection, generalizations, categorization and labeling. If it's helps anyone for now to better accept him or herself, so be it.. But I'm betting my ass sooner or later you'll recognize the dead end you put yourself into. Why? Because you label people NT or ND...but where's the line? When do you stop being X and start being Y? If you act like ABC in 8.658 cases out of 10 times to degree if 76° or more, in at least 13.7 categories out of 23.4 over a span of 3.76 months? And even IF I take this halfway seriously, you are telling me there are only NDs and NTs lol? What about ND1 and ND2? Or actually, it's ND1.1 and ND.1.2 and ND2.1 and ND2.2. But only Sundays, and only if it's the third Sunday in a month. You are just creating stories to justify the way you are. Wake up, accept yourself, move on.

@Zenterus I like your two posts in this topic. Guess it will help others to see the traps of pick up mindset, too. One thing I want to add: You say there are emotional wounds that are hard for you to get to IME, pick up mindset, and strategies and gaming about human interaction are often a result of 1. You know strategize again with 10 points above. In a different, more loving way towards women - but what about yourself? Drop ALL concepts. Drop ALL strategies. It's all mind stuff. You don't get to your emotions that way. I recommend 100% improv mindest. 100% going with flow of interaction. Good luck!

+1 Sums up pretty much my experience. The deeper I go into the rabbit hole, the more the conditioned self I uncover and the more freedom I am able to gain

Yeah that seems to be the case. But don't know what the point is you want to make re this ?

Just assume you know nothing, don't believe nothing but your own experience and every day take an explorer mindset and find out what's true for you right now in this particular situation. Be prepared to change that "truth" fundamentally the next day. Repeat.

Can't say for sure how it is for others, but I pretty much with @Hojo : Don't do anything about it, go through the experience. In the end was good for me to go though a very tough period. Don't know if you can awaken without going through the "negative" emotions. I could not experience significant changes before I did. Also, I would not make it so much about ND or not it's just a story. People experiences reality different, that's it. Rest is a story from a voice in your head that's not "you"

Yeah, agree. I came here to make a joke "if you're struggling with pick up - then stop doing pick up " Which is more or less what you're saying 😅 The distinction hot/not hot girl, success/no success costs lot of energy. A guy many years ago had a great little trick. He told me before going out together: "Tonight , you and me, we smile at everyone we make eye contact with. EVERYONE. Young, old, man, woman, your type, not your type, doesn't matter." Also agree with @aurum - being strategic with time is valuable additional step.

Ok. Point taken. But then I wonder: if that's your POV, that reality can not be described, then why bother to participate in a discussion about description of reality at all?

You can make that point with ANY answer, no matter the content. Language is conditioned in a way that one word 1 or symbol 1 must be explained by another word 2 or symbol 2. But how you then define this word 2 with word 3 etc etc Descriptions are, like ultimate causality, limited and their coherence dissolves at some point. Any description is in the end BS. John Lilly once said he starts his workshop with "everything I say is a lie. Because it's not the experience itself." Let's switch symbols. Let's call reality now "tomato soup" and circular now "butter" and answer we call "horse" So your point is that breakingthewall's horse regarding tomato soup is butter. Don't mistake the map for the territory. Look where the finger is pointing to, not the finger. Part of us is addicted to words, concepts, thinking. As Ralston would say, just stop doing that.

Funny, I also thought I should have done military service. Did civil service, but I think I would have benefited more from temporary military service. I regret not being more confident about what I want in life. Too scared, too shy, too insecure. Not telling the girl that I like her, not risking that action in business, not opening my mouth when I felt like speaking up.

Funny how you phrase it, with naming "chronic stress". Fits perfectly my experience. There was a time last year where my activities did cause tremendous stress over ~ half a year. I suffered a lot and I couldn't meditate more then few minutes after a sth you might call destabilisation, breakdown, identity loss, dark night of the soul or whatever. Part of me had to die for others to emerge. Was no fun lol People knowing me literallly asked me "is what your doing actually good for you?" At first, the answer was clearly "yes". I wanted to continue this path. And I did. Something dep inside told me to go on, don't know what or why After a while, I said yes but was kinda lying to myself without fully realizing it Then I realized slowly that I was lying to myself. That my curve of well being took a sharp downward turn in the last months. I went to my personal rock bottom. Lowest point of my life. I asked for help. Literally and metaphorically. I received it. Now, everything makes sense. I reap the benefits of the whole development curve. My life quality is significantly better then 1 year ago and increasing. Won't go into details, but now I (believe to) understand the process I have been going through very well. It seems quite simple once I started to see clearly. The error is IMO to believe that "survival" and "tattiwigwanda" are different directions, or conflicting goals, or different priorities. I am 100% convinced that once you crossed the Rubicon, and you see reality as it is, it becomes incredibly and undeniably clear that's the VERY SAME THING. I dare to bet that once you can only intuit what I am pointing at you'll laugh out loud at the absurdity of separating these two concepts in the first place. Once I crossed a certain line, my attitude towards myself and my interactions with people change TREMENDOUSLY and irreversibly. And what's survival about? How you relate to yourself, and how you relate to others, and how these to relations are expressed within your chosen environment.

Ok

"Just because the rabbit screams louder then the carrot, it doesn't mean it's more alive" 🥕 Not saying it's true. But it's one way of seeing this topic.

For me it was always clear that my efforts - you can call it "spiritual work" or "tatawiggwanda" I don't care about the labeling - are directed towards personal well-being. I did not attend Vipassana retreats to "awaken", or to find God. I attended them first and foremost because I had the impression that they increased my quality of life. Finding an unexplainable "something" you might call God happened as a side effect. Whoever put the idea in your mind that you have to "neglect your psychological well being for spiritual pursuit" is IMO an idiot.

+1 Fits my experience. Your mind filters automatically what it considers relevant. Relevance = what is required now, what is useful, what is applicable, what can be integrated. I re-read a book currently that I read about 2.5 years ago last time. And I'm thinking "oh shit how could I not get this back then? How could I not see that? The information was there, right in front of me"

You would not offer it at least once? Gently asking without expectations?

Why not ask him? Hi Bro, I would like to introduce you to krya yoga. 1) how interested are u in this? If yes: 2) From your POV, how do I do the intro best ?