theleelajoker

OK. Gotcha. So how do you handle these things?

I don't think so much about the question if it's good for them. It's not my job (except I get asked directly). Women don't need to be saved. Especially not from me. I take care of my values, my actions, my thoughts, my emotional state. Maybe it is bad for them? Then they need to learn it themselves. Maybe it's great for them? OK happy to contribute to your well being You can always make the opposite argument: they should be proud, rightfully so, because they Do what they like Bring happiness to others while doing it Don't give a shit what others think

I agree with @Opulence - well said. With one exception. Where I slowly tend towards a different direction: Is that really so? I see tiredness as well. My mind more and more enjoys its rest. It wants its proper role in life, too. Not being the "bad guy" whose fault it is that we are unhappy. It it could speak, I am sure it would be quite pissed about how we treat it, how we perceive it, how we talk about it. Not the tool is the problem, its how we use it. The key is realizing - on whatever level you experience (emotions,intellect, deep knowing) - that it quite exhausting to fight yourself all the time. To plan ALL THE TIME and to build identity that needs defense ALL THE TIME. Seriously, who wants to do this? And who wants to fight his own mind all the time? Why and by whom has this idea been created that the mind resists, and is afraid, and needs surrender etc etc. WTF? I believe it's simply a) wrong conditioning b) Ignorance. I highly question that it needs to be a fight instead of a cooperation. It's just attitude and respect for that wonderful thing we have been given. The way we use the mind on the west is as if you use a beautiful high-end quality knife to cut down a tree. Yeah, you can do it but it's not effective, it's exhausting and it's almost an insult to this incredible tool. What is the alternative? Talk to the mind as a friend, create win-win situations where you don't have inner conflict. Set the mind to use where it's most suited. Use it to cut food, to save lifes, to build shelter etc etc. Or to cut flowers to give a nice gift

I think that's the point. It's not supposed to be known, it's supposed to be found out. Infinite process instead of end of a path. Uncharted territory instead of final maps. Imagine anyone knew? What would be the mystery in exploring, seeking it? Just follow instructions. HOW FUCKING BORING IS THAT? Now the other side: Nobody knows, nobody can teach you, except for YOU. There is a way for every human, but it's unique. Unique to YOU. You have to create your own way do reach that state, express yourself to the maximum of your ability to do so. And it's a infinite continuous process, always changing. What worked yesterday might not work today. You have to be 100% present every moment so that you don't become a robot on your path. Now THAT is Alan Watts would call a good game, wouldn't he?

Nice. Feels more open for me too. Also: What is reality? What happens if I do XYZ? That's also opening for me compared to "reality is XYZ" Interesting point about non-conscious reality. How exactly? It's there because everything exists, not because it's needed?

Haha ok now we're talking Yeah, turns me on to "use" women during sex, too. But guess what? That's what turns them on, too. I literally had girls saying "yeah, use me!", "fuck me like a slut/bitch/whore" etc , begging to be fucked harder, welcoming choking, asking for that and more. So, where's the harm in some mutual role playing? In my personal experience and that of my friends, 9/10 women like hard to degrading sex. They feel your energy and know, at least subconsciously, exactly what they are getting into. Of course never assume, but explore tiny step by step what feels good for both. ONS, affair, LTR - all offering different context, advantages and disadvantages to do so. And it doesn't end here. I like some of that stuff, too. A girl confidently sitting on you and skillfully riding you? Using you like a horse? Using your cock while you see the excitement, their release and their fun while doing so? Some also choke and slap you while on top, depending on your dynamic you can do almost everything together. Among me and my friends, we could share stories like that for hours. The point is: Mutual fun and no shame for liking what you like. A very few times I thought I might have been too hard with them - but except for "hair pull to hard" or similar happened in rush of moment stuff, not a single one ever complained. Quite the opposite It's not "don't have that kind of sex with me", it's "I communicate HOW I want you to do that". It's simply exploring as a couple who you are and what you like and what to do with your body. You had contact with Christianity a, lot? There is a common pattern with shame, guilt and sex. Edit: For me it's important, that this way of having sex is not the only way, but a point in a spectrum. On the other side of that spectrum is then slowly, gently making love

Good point. Might become a trap "I want need to do LP" but if you can't put actions to it, it backfires because of pressure and judgment.

How do you know it's your life purpose? What are your criteria for declaring it the "right" result? How do you examine your criteria? How did you get to these criteria? What would tell you that you might be wrong? How do you know there's a single life purpose instead of rotating one? How you know that other's life purpose is simple, stupid and unconscious? What makes you sure that your life purpose is not simple, stupid and unconscious?

What about potatoes? 🥔 Are they a dream? More important than survival? Less so? What about sex? Equally important? And let's not forget the 🍅! They are maybe the most sexual survival thing of all!

What about cutting carrots 🥕? Is that awakening? I'm sure there's at least one person in the world that says it is. Therefore it becomes valid, doesn't it? One subjective experience is enough to verify that it is

Daniel Schmidt has an interesting take: "Sometimes they say that awakening happens by accident, but the practice makes you more accident prone. The techniques, the practices can be very useful to make you more accident prone" (From his documentaries)

Interesting perspective.

@integral I agree with your general points re body awareness. That the normal state is feeling it and that we are typically conditioned to not feel and be disconnected. Trauma, stress, conditioning etc Also agree that it leads to big problems - ego games, disease, unhappy was. I base my answer on personal experience and on observation of others within my life. Agreed that you need to feel the body to have access to your life. What I like to do is asking people if they're happy or content, or angry, of whatever. No matter the answer I like to follow up: "How do you know this"? The percentage of people going into the body is low. If they don't have access to body awareness, I sometimes follow up again, more directly: "Where in your body do you feel that XYZ?" Here the replies differ greatly. The percentage of people then actually FEELING that body sensations? Low, typically there's a lot of resistance. And I want to be honest: I'm training myself with the exact same method described above - I'm getting better, but it's a process.. @integral it seems to be that there's a strong emotional charge re this topic for you. How much you see this or how much you think that's no the case?

Lol what a discussion. It's half full! No! It's half empty! For me it's both - posture, breath, nervous system relaxation etc. But also different way of thinking, perceiving, being aware, "knowing". Things that are beyond physical sensations.

Well, switching to boyfriend vibes allowed you to act on the (mutual?) feeling that it's not really a good fit early, didn't it? Imagine you would have been in player vibe for weeks or months? She might would have chased you, lots of sex and spent time together until she convinced you that's she's a good fit. Then you go exclusive, then you walk back - not THAT'S collateral damage for me 🤣 Not saying that's the only outcome, it's literally infinite scenarios. But it illustrates the point I want to make: careful about mono-casual analysis and mono-causal behavior corrections. What about you go into the next one as open as possible and as much in touch with yourself as you can, feeling out what you really need and want?

I guess it's hard to say something with conviction after three weeks, that's your point isn't it? That's true. But my impression is that you impose certain assumptions on the questions and answers: "I don't know" would be a valid answer. "Ok, great. What do you need to think out?" It's a valid question, isn't it? "How do you feel about it now?" Doesn't mean it will be like that forever, nothing is. Just getting information, not a decision You normally don't change work and go back, but you can go back and forth re exclusivity in relationship. "Hmm for now I don't feel like it, but if we still date in half a year, let's see again. --> pressure comes from idea of final decision instead of process thinking Pressure also comes because you think there is an EXPECTATION with this question, a right wrong answer like in school. But what if you see it as a chance, a opportunity to find out how you truly feel? For BOTH in the partnership. Not "OMG I have to decide " but "cool, I'm getting to know my self. How do I really feel? What do I need, want, desire? Is it aligned with my partner or not?" Ah yeah, here of course you've a point. Can be that the other person doesn't have one or two of those. Happened to me. But again, what's my baseline approach in life? I want to control the outcome? Or I want to find out what will happen if I express myself as best as I can? Unfortunately, I subconsciously lived a lot in the former. Strategies how to influence and control reality, aka others. It's crazy how our culture, especially our education system imprints the idea of "right " and "wrong " in our mind and we take this idea into every aspect of life, not differentiating where it's useful and where it's harmless. It's very subtle, it became so much part of our life we don't even question it anymore. We are so used to certain bad standard in communication and influencing others according to our interests, so many people don't notice it anymore that and how they are doing it. Always attention in the exexternal reality, connecting happiness with external results. This patterns ept me in thinking mode a lot, and let me never feel 100% safe because I prefer outcome A over outcome B. I'm moving away from this now step by step and it feels good. Feels more free. She doesn't have the capacity? Ok, it is how it is. Let's move on, not the right fit. She doesn't have the desire? Same, let's move on. Better to find out early than to invest time and energy into a situation where it's will be loose-loose. One person hopes for a change that will never come, living a Illusion based on wrong assumptions, and the other potentially trying to fulfill expectations until the effort collapses. Doesn't mean you can't invest into a relationship, but in a wu-wei style. Things are happening in spontaneous flow, not forcing anything. It can also be forced to talk about exclusivity early, that's why I emphasize "I talk about it when I feel like it"

I agree. Had two, and the experience was the same. Exactly what you describe: noise, heavy, wear down quickly.... My plan is exactly what you propose: desktop and small and light notebook

@LordFall100% agreement, not only re sex but also other interactions. I live by these two principles as best as possible One thing I wonder about: "transparent about your intentions when asked I think you're good to go." What if you don't get asked? Sometimes you can send those signals non-verbally, sure. But there are not always understood as intended. Are there situations where you feel like "Hm I think she assumes something that is not true" and you feel the need to proactively say sth?

I don't see it as not useful per se. I remember casual ONS where - as far as I can see it - it was a clear win-win. I've been traveling a lot and that means for instance that you often meet a girl you like (and vice versa). And for both it's clear - OK we see each other now, but we are going separate ways. Festivals are similar Even if you're in the same city, I remember good ONS that I consider win-win. I told women that I am not in for a LTR - and they still spent the night with me. Just a mutual energetic transaction To be fair, I had casual sex that was not a good idea as well. Sounds like a hypothesis to test

Stumbled over this thread @Adrian colby how is it going?

Yeah, I agree with this. Of course, there is a certain way of doing things with respect. Here I don't think the comparison fits. How about a "I am wondering - what will it be like if I pull the fire alarm? What's your opinion on that?" And if she is already freaked out by introducing the topic without need to make a decision - then the fit certainly is not there for me. Hmmm... not sure we have the same understanding. For me it means I accept the consequence. If I feel like talking about it, it's only a question of HOW to do it (empathically, respect) but not IF I do it. Saying "I don't put this topic on the table because of fear that her reaction is XYZ" is not a option. Yes, self expression changes the emotional environment. 1) Same time, her reaction is her responsibility. If she either doesn't see that, or is not open for a discussion about it, then I already know that it doesn't make sense re relationship. Because if she doesn't take responsibility for her emotional state, then she will look for sth or sme on the outside to project that on. And is this how I want to live my relationship? Nope. 2) Second, what is so bad at having some emotions coming up? Western culture is so programmed to avoid emotions but I don't see the sense in this And I know from experience that tough discussions and questions can be successfully handled in early dating. I had this dynamic with my last gf in the first couple of dates - she asking me many personal questions directly, and I did the same. We thus knew at an early state that re value we are very aligned.

There is sth about your points, clearly. But it's not the whole truth you present it to be. It's the typical argument made by people to promote a certain narrative. You want to feel inferior to women? OK have fun. My personal experience shows me that there are men and women that want to life an "average" life and an "average" partner. Also, it's very one-sided to say only women choose - both have to choose. That's the story you create for yourself. Not the truth. "OMG this guy is so attractive and cool. He's just secure in himself, and he doesn't participate in this rat race about status, money, sixpack and so on. He transcended these ego games and is simply himself, friendly, open, funny and flowing with life. This vibe magically draws me to him..."

I don't think about such things much anymore. Don't really care how women or men act on a general basis. What use does it have for me? The way I see it now it's only strengthening the power of the mind in strategizing, trying to control reality and the outcome of my actions. This is fine when I want to build a bridge or a house, but not for me in dating. I care about the individual men and women in my direct field of awareness, not some generalized "average gender" that doesn't exist. Women in the EU had approximately 1.38. children in 2023. Go and find 1.38 baby clothes and you'll have the perfect gift for the average woman : ) The range is infinite. Yeah, some women took long time before we had sex (weeks, months). Others fucked with me in the toilet of a bar same evening we got to know each other. The best way to deal with anyone is IMO do see them as unique individuals and to act spontaneously off the cuff and in the moment. Finally, regarding your higher libido: 1) people indeed can be different re that 2) I would seriously question how cultural conditioning plays a role in the idea men = higher libido and in your personal sex drive 3) The sex drive looses some of it power over you once you realized that you can partially de-condition biological needs. Fasting is one example that drives that ability to be composed and not a horny monkey (not talking about you, but I have seen a lot of this behavior. Just need to go to bars at 1am )

@MellowmarshNice write up. This makes me feeling better about not knowing / not wanting to know things.

I did not have the same experience, but similar. I have a POV, I read sth, or sme said something - and my POV changed by 180°. Bam, just like this, simply because I liked the information other people gave me. As this continued, I slowly recognized that the content of my mind, my thoughts, my believes are like clothes I can change arbitrarily, just like that. Heinrich Zimmer in "Philosophies of India" writes about the mind as sth that is formless in itself, capable of assuming any form, and transparent when not distorted by ego and desire. How I see it: What is was for me at first - very destabilizing. My persona had suddenly no more foundation of believes. That was tough at the beginning. But you learn to use the mind better after a while If my thoughts can be so...meaningless, what other source I can include to make decisions? Body and awareness became more important, thoughts (mind) less so Incredible freedom: So I can learn to choose and change my thoughts. How much? That's what I am finding out I find more periods of time where I consciously don't think. Allowing space for non-thought. Mediation, yes, but also walking or cleaning my flat. Just doing / being. The key questions is not WHY this is happening IMO. More important for me is "WHAT good brings this new found mental flexibility? "HOW can I use it for me and the benefit of others?" Work with open ended questions, not fixed assumptions. HOW much do I like this boy or girl? HOW do I know I like her/him? HOW can I verify this? HOW can I get more information? WHAT can I do to find out if he/she likes me to? WHAT is the most important thing for me in this moment? WHAT is it, that I feel like doing, right here, right now? Let the mind find the solutions to help you in ...dealing with the mind