eos_nyxia

Sometimes being shy around people, socially anxious (like being closed-off due to discomfort), or reserved (cultural conditioning) comes off as "bitchy" because it doesn't match people's expectations of how a ""hot"" woman should behave. ....or just not going out of your way to be friendly, being literally self-absorbed (like lost in thought, your own personal issues or dramas, etc.) rather than being present with people, open, accommodating, etc. Maybe even being really tired or disconnected from yourself emotionally. === "looks bitchy"

Isn't it utterly misery-inducing to feel compulsively attracted to that which you also hate? Like an intense push-pull in you that feels like you're being torn at. At some point... it's probably going to come back to you, that disgust and hate. That which you project outward tends to eventually come back to you, especially if you stay stuck in your perspective. In a roundabout way, a disgust of women tends to be a manifestation of your own self-hate, insecurity, etc. (Likewise, as a woman, despite whatever it is that I've been through and why, if I were to hate men, that would eventually tend to come back to me as a form of self-loathing.) I feel like I'm stating the obvious: what comes easily to others isn't necessarily what they value. At all. Just because you value what doesn't come so easily to you... it doesn't mean that it does anything for them, or means very much. Try to put yourself in another person's shoes: what good is supposedly "endless sexual options" of people who don't really value you, in ways that don't provide physical/ emotional satisfaction? (E.g. consider the "orgasm gap" between hetero men and women in casual sex/ relationships). Also: just because someone appears arrogant, cold, or narcissistic doesn't mean it's because of the reason that you think it is (are we talking about people who you don't really know and how they come off from a distance here, or are you talking about acquaintances? People you actually talk and interact with? People on social media? Is this about IRL?) It doesn't mean it's because they're patting themselves on the back thinking, wow, I'm so hot! Look at all these utter peasants who are beneath me! No need to caricaturize people?

I'd imagine so! This would be like someone my age collecting Atari, lol.

That said, I actually agree with a lot of what's on that list. Valuing a lot of these things was especially important to me because I got jack shit from my family in terms of emotional protectiveness (and even physical protectiveness in some ways), openness, warmth, care and attention, understanding, etc.

Wasn't this term from a Teal Swan video originally? I found a transcript of her video here, and there is a bullet point list which might be worth looking at: https://tealswan.com/resources/articles/masculine-containment-r443/ ...I have to ask though, is it really actually that emotionally healthy for adult men to only be doing the containing, even if this is what works for a lot of women? Don't they have to get it from elsewhere somehow? Isn't this horribly one-sided and a recipe for being emotionally retentive and dysfunctional? Like... are a lot of these points just human needs? Because like the article says, traditionally, men are 'supposed' to not just hold it for their women, but other women. And probably on top of that, their children, and their community. I can't help but wonder if this is a very common factor in men when they seek something emotional (as in, NOT just sexual) outside of their primary romantic relationship.

Listening to "Small Hours"... in the small hours. The lyrical part is what both "hope" and being hyperpresent sound like to me. (And "hope" is something that I pretty much never feel nor do I really think there's a point to that emotion just generally. But if there is anything positive about hope at all, somehow this is it.) Every time I hear it, I wish it would just never end, and go on and on and on... ...it always ends too quickly.

@something_else I get that. If you're young and/or sensitive to other people's opinions about you, it's kind of a lose-lose situation as a woman. No matter how you respond (or if you don't), unless you're giving the other person exactly what they want from you, they're bound to not be happy.. and possibly get aggressive with you. I don't blame anyone for just stepping out in that case; it's by far the easiest option.

TBH it never actually occurred to me originally that people thought of that as "ghosting" before you've even established a definite connection or talked that much, let alone met IRL or went on a date. To me, it's simply a conversation that naturally didn't go anywhere for whatever reason... If it's just a couple of messages exchanged (even if they're lengthy enough), getting butthurt is like: ???????? ...conversations and exchanges fizz out and go nowhere in particular in person too, and it's not necessarily because someone is being inconsiderate and inattentive, let alone malicious about it. It's the spontaneous nature of human connection and chemistry that can't always be easily predicted. I mean... especially if you're a guy and you're shooting out a lot of messages, why get upset about mine in particular? Particularly when there is nothing -particular- about our conversation, like you could be having that conversation with any woman who was your"type" was// fulfilled a specific need/ desire/ whatever.

@Tyler Robinson Yea, by default it's easier to not engage. I feel bad sometimes for dudes though because I see them trying very hard and getting frustrated. (But I stop feeling bad if they lash out or have a meltdown.) It's what drives them to seek out really questionable advice from some not-so-great men, and even though I'm not a huge advice-giver myself... I feel at least a little bit responsible even if I'm not interested in them personally. Respecting some personal version "the social contract" and all that. Technology makes it even easier to be evasive in a way that people feel is deeply inhumane on some level. A lack of attention/ appreciation/ "love" can and does kill in its own way.

Though I actually would actually answer honestly a lot of the time if someone asked why I was not responding (sometimes there wasn't anything done wrong, but there wasn't exactly much "done right" either). Dudes aren't always nice about continuing to talk to you if you're not giving them what they want/ expect... like they can get extra abusive even if they were "nice enough" before. For every dude who is a civil human being about it, others are butthurt and calling you names// trying to knock you down a few pegs... when really, it's not that personal... like, at all. It's a sign our times, I guess. Also for the record: men do the same thing enough. Maybe far less overall, but still.

TLDR; try to see it from the opposite perspective? Imagine that you get quite a few messages, some of them quite long and detailed, some far less so. In my case, in the past, even when I wanted to respond to certain people's messages, I just didn't have enough time and energy. ...what am I supposed to do, sit with my computer/ phone and respond to my messages all day long? I have other things to do. Add to that someone who is overtly particular, not flexible, and possibly lashes out at you... and yea, that's a recipe for being ghosted. The more someone tries to push or force things into happening in a way that's just not appealing, the more it's like... no. When you're near the beginning especially, being relaxed, going with the flow, and being appropriately forward/ persistent are generally conducive to getting somewhere (unless I'm taking more of the lead, which happens).

Revisiting this after some years of not hearing this (probably not since this came out in 2017): Interesting metal fusion, the chorus hits much deeper these days.

What does "deep" mean for you personally and specifically though, is what I'm trying to make sense of?

Well, you can develop a sort of grit and confidence that you might not otherwise be pushed to develop, especially by choice. Ever wonder how you'd fare under more difficult circumstances? Well, that experience can back you up now. It is unavoidable that it wears on your body though, even if you can offset a sense of undesirable deterioration psychologically and emotionally. (Most of the time, the latter also does involve "paying it forward" until later in a self-destructive way.) To your first question... how do you recognize your limit? Ultimately, developing much greater emotional and physical awareness, so you recognize what feels off and does damage in the moment, or at least much sooner rather than later. And not after you've already viscerally felt the consequences of your actions which were not originally anticipated. (For example: misestimating how much of something you can actually take, and what it realistically takes to get there under current circumstances... while recognizing that circumstances can and do change as well, also in smaller increments that often go unrecognized if you're just not that tuned in your body/ psyche.)

@Craigxt22 How do you find this brand? Every other "natural" sunscreen where I've combed through the ingredients list (which tends to be "hippie" type brands) that I've tried so far feels greasy AF. (I.e. Green Beaver, Badger, Goddess Garden) It's like spreading mayo on your face and then just letting it sit there, waiting for it to absorb. It makes me quite sad, actually.

Isn't this often part of "standard male societal conditioning"? At least, that's what I've heard from guys that I've been close to, including my own partner. I got the same treatment growing up as well though. I had gotten the message that my expressions of pain were inconvenient, undesirable, and inappropriate, whether psychological, emotional or physical. At least a few times, I can actively recall being rewarded and praised for taking pain without showing any reaction to it. I definitely prioritized others' well-being and convenience over my own in this way, and believed that this is what made me "good". My, this is extremely relatable.

What do you think is at the heart of feeling like you can't be yourself fully around people? Or that interactions are not worth it? What's your motive? What do you feel like you most need to protect yourself from? (This very much could include "your time".) If it's not primarily an issue with sensory or emotional overwhelment in your environment, then probably it is much more so about your beliefs, associations about people and what they represent and mean, is it not?

It can be helpful to understand what it is that makes you so attached to this one specific person, specifically what it is that this person symbolizes to you, and what needs/ desires/ curiosities are not otherwise being fulfilled in your life, and what does this mean in relation to your own life story/ experiences? Like... who would you most ideally be with this person? What would you most be able to freely express or become? What specific things draw out this desire in you as opposed to another? It's not exactly the solution, but it's a place to start getting to know yourself a lot better.

I get that I and I do see the value in that part too, like making the personal public by making a declaration of intent in front of people. And I've definitely seen compelling weddings, but by nature, they tend to not be conventional. at the very least, the people getting married thought carefully about the symbolism of it all in relation to their values. For example, I would feel really daft getting married in a white dress because of associations with virginity/ "sexual purity" (lol), even though to my understanding, this is not why modern women started wearing white wedding dresses), and also white is just not my colour. Stuff like this never sits well with me even if it's not about weddings. If you just really really like white... well, whatever. Do you?

I was anti-marriage for most of my post-puberty life. (As in, not comfortable with the institution of marriage, as opposed to permanent, long-term LTRs, or "marriage-like"// common-law). It's a bit more open-ended now, but I still feel uncomfortable with the idea of throwing a fancy, expensive party making a spectacle of myself and my partner while having everyone around us agree how very awesome and important we are in this way. Personally, it doesn't feel a justified or worthwhile reason to be in the centre of attention. (Like... it's great that people would agree, but I would have done this if I was going to do it anyway, with or without anyone's approval; so there is that lingering association of seeking and expecting the approval of your family/ friends/ wider community, which I guess is the basis of many shared social rituals.) But then, this is normal rather than exceptional in my immediate family. My parents had a courthouse marriage in my mom's home city (then travelled), and my brother went to Hawaii to elope. So me not seeing the appeal of a traditional wedding as a spectacle isn't exactly rebelling against anything there.

A more direct and systematic approach is to keep doing what scares you socially, even if bit by bit, in a way that you find sustainable. (Check yourself before you wreck yourself!) Like... open up and share a bit more about your life than you would normally share, tell a joke that might fall flat. Potentially be a bit overshare and even potentially a bit "cringe" with your feelings. Risk embarrassing yourself a little. Say hi and start a conversation with someone that you would normally never talk to (but not even necessarily because you wanted anything specific from them, or that you expected or hoped it would go anywhere specifically...) Show up in feeling your body and your emotions a bit more than you might otherwise, give yourself permission to take up more space. Sometimes your current comfort level is not a great gauge of where you should stay at the moment... but no need to wreck yourself.

For me as well, there has been a balancing act that I haven't quite figured out, especially in practice. It fluctuates a lot for me. I've been on both sides to the extreme and many places in between. Wait.... you're talking about a sort of "love at first sight" but for friendships, right? Where there is a sort of chemistry or meaning that you feel clearly and possibly right away? Where you feel like you immediately just "click" or "get" each other? You also mean a person who is "highly developed" relative to you (specifically in ways that are meaningful to you)? I definitely relate to the desire. Are you open to the idea of growing with someone over time and developing "deep" chemistry and shared purpose and meaning, but over very long periods of time? If you're open and flexible, and you keep having win-win interactions with people, it may be more in your hands than you realize.

Extreme TLDR; shared perspective and mutual growth, shared projects. Win-win interactions across the board. what's wrong with one choice or the other? For the former, if that's all that it is, I think it's worth taking whatever's worth taking from that experience and from those people in the moment, even if that's all it is. Or otherwise... just don't be around people too! ...or have some walls up, if you need them? Sometimes being too attached to the idea of being non-attached is its own sort of poison. I guess it depends on how it truly makes you feel across the board (in this case, not having friendships). From personal experience though, fetishizing the ultra-deep soul connections has brought more grief than it has meaning and fulfillment. Like trying to sustain myself on foam and air. But a great deal of this was the place that I came from emotionally, and how that specific attachment and desire to meet amazing people ultimately was based on compensating for the love and care I never got growing up, and this deep need to be seen/ understood/ heard truly in a way that just felt profoundly good and right. I never lead with this expectation, but this is what I ended up getting.

For better and worse though, the people that I've gotten along with the best and trusted the most (and therefore ended up in relationships with, especially before the past handful of years), are people who "get trauma" because their lives haven't been very easy. To the point that they couldn't afford to be "spoiled" when it came to being too emotional and reactive in certain ways. Otherwise, they wouldn't even be here, as functional as they were, still talking to me, let alone able to have long-term, mutually beneficial relationships. But we tend to have our own set of issues beyond any flavour of "trauma is a problem and is ugly and inconvenient for everyone, get rid of it so you can feel worthy", etc. (in the way that you would feel self-conscious about having an ugly house or clothes) Also, it really, absolutely doesn't ensure that this person won't overtly abuse you or even facilitate your weaknesses by being overly enabling. (The latter thing tends to arise pretty subtly, and by the time you notice the unhealthy dynamic, you're at least knee or chest deep in it already... and also often has nothing to do with ill-intentions. In fact, it can come from the best of intentions.) It just means that this person is highly unlikely to be spoiled with very little grit, as well as clueless and lacking empathy and sensitivity about trauma.

I hope you find the healing and sense of freedom and peace that you deserve. Not so much anymore, but as a woman, my experience has been that it at times has made me a predator magnet (not saying the opposite doesn't happen for men too though, just pointing out a general trend). And at other times, it has made me a magnet for saviour-types for the few times in when I have worn my vulnerability more openly. Which in an odd, roundabout way seemed to revolve based on a sense of superiority, like fixing a sad, broken, baby bird (which can be an issue if you don't always want to actually stay this way). Usually, the latter isn't ill-intentioned though, but it does create a predictable codependency which I have preferred to avoid. In my case, it had been a good reason to cover too much emotional vulnerability (or alternatively enough, to lead openly with vulnerable but not with the intention of getting anything specific in return for it) until I could be sure enough that it was "safe" enough to be more open. Boundaries and such. I'm curious about the specifics of your pattern, or the types of women and interactions that you've tended to attract?