Anton Rogachevski

How could it be so, if from a non-dual state there are no understandings and no perspectives? These things are dualistic after all.

I'm afraid I've lost you there. Please tell me more master.

I don't seem to recall, yet I would love for you to elaborate. I like what you did there with the infinite perspectives. The cool part is that true non-duality (understood properly) is not a perspective and so it changes the game. As I said it's a state dependant vision. You can't take two entirely different states and compare the two, or explain the one with the other, and start spouting how non of us really exist. (which is what happens to the dude cult here.) The proper way is to see both as legitimate and not mix the unmixable. That's what's meant when saying that existence both exists and doesn't.

Beautiful! an integration of duality, and non-duality - the true mark of stage Yellow.

"The monk who becomes enlightened will go to hell straight as an arrow." Zen tradition

@Nahm Non-dualism is not a logical paradigm, you can't draw logical conclusions out of non-dual visions. It's a state dependant prism. I have yet seen perfection. I did have divine spiritual experiences, and no perfection was present. I can't speak of god as you speak of it, until I witness it. Since infinity includes everything it includes imperfection. Saying that infinity is perfect excludes imperfection. Imperfection is perfection. "Samsara is nirvana, nirvana is samsara." "God is the devil." Leo "God created adam in his own image."

It's very difficult to fathom, but god isn't perfect. He's perfecting himself through humans. Ideas of absolute perfection are only imagined by an ignorant absolutist ego.

It's easy to say about all things that they don't exist, but the secret is to leave them alone entirely I guess. Meanwhile wisdom is useful to me in my little dream, so I will keep it.

@SOUL I would like to share one more general observation: Please let it not disqualify the good parts of the discussion. There can be both good and bad sides at the same time. It seems we are all cought in a compulsive cycle of recating to each other, and it consumes a lot of time and attention. That's why I usually don't hang here that much. As entertaining as it is, it ends up being a general distraction. A very high quality entrainment indeed. One could even excuse it as a progressive, deep, mutual live contemplation.

Thank you dear sir. Would you care to eleborate on your metaphor?

@who chit Thank you for your contribution sir. If I may add, in my foolish opinion it's the collaboration between the intellect and the intutive proccess which produces wise and deep insights: for example Leo. The intellect is the fish net in which insights are cought. (Plus it's literally a web of belief.)

On the contraray, it's all beautiful and insightful, Thank you for your contribution. It went deeper than I ever imagined. For me the best part is the insights invoked by integrating all the different perspectives. To see the failure in communication also sheds much light on the issue. Which is what evoked this inquiry in the first place. I've tried to communicate my insights to another person with a rich background in spiritual practice, and to my surprise I was met with a huge wall of misunderstanding, no interst at all to ask simple existential questions, and pure resistance. Obviously our friend here is a young stage green and full of complex terms, which is really ok, because the path to become wise includes being very foolish for very long.

When you think you've fooled the devil, in fact you were the one being fooled.

The trick is to remove the need for outside validation and give it to yourself constantly and unconditionally. That's a healthy ego.

As clear as day. Only if I may add one thing: talking about spirituality and keep playing with complex ideas is good in the sense that it helps to keep awareness. It's easy to think you are already free and to go about your life without practice. But soon you end up in misery again. It's like a maintenance routine. The ego doesn't rest after awakening, it's very much alive and kicking. The way is to always stay one step ahead. It's a cool habit indeed. Like I said before it's a sport for the mind to stay sharp.

I'm learning slowly to do that, and it's very rewarding. Some facts don't change. I agree with these statements, live by them, and get amazing results. I'm sorry if you've heard it once. The more I go deeper the more I see how true they are.

In Buddhism they say it's to be a bodysatva - to go back from nirvana and to be a lighthouse for those who still suffer. Enlightenment is not a possession to be kept to the self, if you don't keep the flow of spiritual energy it will decay, as standing water does.

If I may be frank, I would suggest to look at your relationship with your ego. You seem to not like it's nature. Are you in a fight against it? Do you realize that by doing this you double the problem and create a good ego and a bad one, and thus forming an unnecessary tension. They say that to make the leap necessary for self-transcendence it takes a strong ego. Also the only way to melt evil is to love it. Love ego and it's trickery and be at peace with yourself.

Complexity is the result of trying to explain the unexplainable - It's a good exercise for the brain. Intellectuality is a highly satisfying practice. Awakening without trying to explain it, is like going to milk a cow without a bucket. A simple brain needs a simple path, a complex brain needs a complex path, for the mind is like a labirinth, and the labirinth's size and difficulty is related to the mind's capabilty. Getting awakaining is simple, but the embodiment of it requires effort. Being liberated and without purpose is the same as not being liberated. What are you going to do? Just sit in your room peacful? How is it diffrent than a heroin addict which sits in his room and looking for peace via the drug.

I'm sorry if I offended you dear sir. The answer is my selfish' wisdom hungry and preachy ego. Or another answer could be God.

Meanwhile please contemplate: "Who's cultivating wisdom?""Who is contemplating, observing and collecting information?"

You tell me that all wisdom is self-produced, yet you use language and terms which you didn't produce, you have read many books you haven't written, then how can you still claim to have produced all your wisdom?

Let's have a little thought exercise - Imagine that a person is born in an imaginary country where no such ideas exist: experience, information, experimentation, observation, contemplation, spirituality. What would he do to be wise?

It takes two to form a relationship, but to truly learn, the only "relationship" to concern yourself with - is with yourself, which is the only one that exists anyway.

When I meet an open minded person I can talk about advanced topics, question things that would trigger most people, get very deep, and even gain wisdom from him. When two brains are on the same frequency, they integrate into a "Brain Storm" dynamic - On such a communication level both brains are basically like a wet sponge and dry sponge put together. The wet one isn't better by any means, it's just that it was immersed in water for longer. Enlightening people can't be a goal of mine, and it's not most of the time (obviously I'm not perfect at this.), but it's the inevitable result of such an interaction - One could say it's gods doing. Any intention or will of mine are a disturbance in the force of god's will. A lot of the time I like to talk about ideas and get feedback, which I learn a lot from, like here on the forum. My only job is to listen quietly and be aware. This reoccurring point of "who talks from direct experience or not." is getting old. If I'm too concerned with it, I could miss some of the most important insights into my own delusions. By listening carefully I can be a student and every other person is my teacher, whether he's aware or not. Anyway there's no way of knowing if a person had or hadn't seen any "direct experiences". Exactly. A person of high charisma knows how to speak properly and how to relate to people so that he's perceived as a leader, and thus gain the respect and openness of his followers. Mooji is very good at this.