Truth

There's nothing wrong with getting something out of someone. It only becomes a problem when you neurotically try to control them or over step their bounds.

Then generally no, it depends on the person/situation. If you go out and take action and constantly test those situations and people you'll figure out your answers. You won't find them here on the forum.

Do you feel uncomfortable talking to people?

It's not rude. Not everyone is gonna be jazzed up to talk to you, that's just the reality.

You really don't gotta defend Julien. You can have good intentions and it can still leave collateral damage as what lead to that interview. my fundamental teaching here is that yeah, express yourself. But watch for your potential collateral damage.

If you're seriously considering going that extreme with pickup, find a new hobby. This is what happens when you think success=happiness. In this video he's just deepening his fetish. He starts with just liking tits and ass and eventually leads himself getting into hardcore leather and latex bondage with strap ons and convinces everyone else that this is what it's REALLY about. @Freakrik I think you should re-check your priorities in life and I'm saying this out of honest compassion for you.

Lol the guy literally tells you that you're not gonna be satisfied with his style and drama game and you still want to know if it's good or bad? Is it effective? Well that's for you to try for yourself. Just be mindful of the woman and give a shit.

"So, he's essentially teaching people to play off of those old wounds for their own personal gratification." See, that's what I'm pointing out when I say he neglects teaching the caring side and compassionate side for the woman. "there are just better ways to increase confidence that aren't exploitative of weaknesses and vulnerabilities. " Again, that's exactly what I'm pointing out when I say being non exploitative will just get in the way of them not getting what they want, whether that be the woman or confidence. But that's your typical ruthless stage Orange thinking right there. Not realizing that all these exploitation's of woman will actually not make them happy. and this is what Julien realized after that interview. In this video he sums up that he still wasn't happy even after all his success. He mentions that interview in 2014 and is now finally turning inward, teaching others about turning inward and is now moving into stage Green. So, I'd say definitely focus on his newer stuff @Freakrik

He was called out for this a long time ago. As unethical as he may seem he knows what works. The problem with him is that he neglects the caring side and the compassionate side for other woman because he knows that will just get in the way of one building their confidence, which is REALLY what they need. It's really hard to go to a job and kill chickens when you're also protesting for PETA and he recognizes that, so he gets demonized by all the other stages (as it should be). But I agree that he should incorporate a polyamory mentality in his teachings.

No problem, glad I could help. I just want to add 2 more ways you can really help others that I just discovered and thought I would add. - Match their emotional/passive state and act exactly like them. Not in a mocking way, but in a playful/exaggerated way. so for example with what she said to you. you could say "Yeah fuck those periods, I hate that shit. Happens to me all the time. I mean, I'm a guy, but sometimes I feel like I'm on my period too if you know what I'm sayin'." and if you're in person you can either smile if she smiles, but if she doesn't smile then just continue to play it off, and try to kind of get her to smile with your body language. Do the best you can. - Match their strong/stoic state and act exactly like them. The mentality here is that they are very grounded. Extremely grounded. Everything is very real for them, they are highly conscious of what is most important and they're not going to budge on that. Just be careful with this cause you could come off as competitive to them then they'll try to beat you in some way. Just stay above the game and just treat them like a valuable person or a good friend no matter how much they call you out (messing up), try to mess you up, try to throw you off. Just realize they are there to help you like a good friend would, even if your friend is a bit of a dick lol. Also you can poke and prod at them too if you feel like it just for fun. Hopefully these aren't too abstract but this should help you really give value to everyone you come across even the extreme edge cases (highly emotional/passive people and the overly confident/alpha people)

Stage Orange is ultimately more selfish in it's extremes, stage Green is ultimately more Selfless in it's extremes, that's what they're talking about, and that's a pretty clear distinction to make when it comes to creating a Green type of relationship. Why? Cause one might consider masculine energy to be more egoic and selfish, on the other hand feminine is definitely more selfless. There are important masculine and feminine polarization's at play that people don’t add into the equation. Which is what you were trying to point out here right?--> "How do you know hippies are not actually still orange? Or even blue? With a value system that simply has different content, but the same structure?" And I have to agree 100% with you about what you said with alpha/beta distinction, it is absolutely sensible. They sit on the extremes/polarization's of the masculinity spectrum (alpha/beta) and the extremes/polarization's of the femininity spectrum (submissive/unyielding). To Green they call it bullshit so they can throw out all distinctions in order to get to know everyone on the spiral indiscriminately. But when you do that you don't see your gender role/extreme/masculinity/femininity/polarization's within spiral dynamics and you don't see their polarization's and instead project out creating stereotypes/generalizations that fit within spiral dynamics to justify and dismiss deeper complexities within everyone's genetics/epigenetics. And this leads to interactions turning into a projection game and neither of you are seeing each other's point of view. Which is what looks like is happening here.

Your job is to understand who you're dealing with (which is why you're here). Otherwise you're just gonna be treating a cat like a dog and you're gonna continue to run into problems. There is a fundamental difference between masculine compassion and feminine compassion and gender differences that goes incredibly overlooked by people because of this equality movement women have been pushing with feminism and stage Green people within spiral dynamics. We all sit on this polarity of masculinity and femininity energy. The extremes of masculinity is --> Extremely logical, emotionless, left brain, cold, bitter, pushing outward, penetration, imposing yourself, dominating etc. The polarization/extreme of femininity is --> Extremely emotional, all over the place, extreme combative to extremely happy and vice versa, soaking in, flowing, receiving, surrendering etc. It's our job to understand where we are on this spectrum and our job to do our best to see where other people sit on this spectrum in order to give the value that we can. (seeing all the ways in which we are able to help them.) Understanding these extremes and polarization's including the edge cases (the middles of the spectrum) on deep levels will help you gauge the best way to give someone value/ help them out. Here are the ways you can give someone value/help them that is WITHIN your control. - Accept them. No matter what they've done, who they are etc. accept them. - Love them. Just love them, care for them, be there if you can and appreciate them. - Respect them. Even if you can't. Why? Because then they can't turn inward and look at themselves and will instead continue to blame you for all their problems. - See everyone as a valuable person no matter how neurotic, competitive, annoying, misguided, ignorant you think they are. otherwise you'll have the reverse of what I wrote above, YOU won't be able to turn inward and figure out what is within your control to make the situation balanced. - Understand/hear them. This is the bulk of the work and why I'm writing this entire thing here. You have to understand things on a VERY deep level in order to balance everything just right and give the kind of value you can to REALLY help them. - Give advice/help with logical grounded compassion. Doing this will allow you to be loving but also harsh with them when things clearly aren't working. it's like combining negative motivation with positive motivation, balancing selfishness & selflessness with the intent of living up to their fullest potential and helping them grow. - Literally be the example. If you find yourself in a similar situation and they're watching. Show them how to handle the situation, that can be huge for them.

lol don't say that. Your job is to handle her emotions and comfort her and love her unconditionally. Not point out her flaws lol. I know you just want to help but, just imagine you got kicked in the nuts and you scream "Ouch you fucking asshole!"and right after the person who kicked you said "Oh you're in pain? that's an excuse to go back to old habits. You should be able to handle me kicking you in the balls and should be able to maintain your equanimity." That's what you're basically saying to her. I know you just want her to be strong and help her, but unless you know for an absolute fact that she can handle taking criticism like that and won't get emotional, blame you, or get mad at you even in subtle ways (passive aggression, a little face she makes at you etc.). Don't say it. It will just make things worse.

So you're asking if it's morally right or wrong if you use his techniques? It's not right or wrong. Do whatever you think you need to get laid, BUT make sure that you care about the woman at the same time, women should always feel better having meet you. Not worse.

He's a guy making a living trying to get you laid. What else is there to say?

Are you trying to say they're pussies?

The movie Lucy is a very good movie showing the progression of psychological evolution in a very Orange/Green way. I feel it's a very Yellow and Turquoise kind of movie which is pretty cool. Maybe I can get some feedback on this.

Giving people what they want to hear is a very valuable trait and a strength, but I see that you're insecure that this ability to give people what they want is a bad thing, because it doesn't feel like it's coming from the right place (a strong identity/personality) and you're intuitions are correct and this is OKAY, there's nothing wrong with you, it's just time for you to grow. Here's the dynamic everyone goes through when trying to build up their self esteem --> Value Level 6 (where you're at) - Suplicative, wants acceptance, wants attention, needs value, needy, buying affection, "everyone is higher value than me..", selling yourself. Value Level 7 (where you're going)- combative, loud, aggravated, emotional, polar opposed (going into the opposite extreme of not being a 6 anymore), "I'm valuable. Why doesn't anyone believe me? or see me?" Value Level 8 (Where you're going) - Competitive, determined, value games, challenging others, attacking them/passive aggression, I'm right, you're wrong, extreme combative. Value Level 9 (where you want to be) - I feel good, I make others feel good, I create value, I help, I'm growing, I'm polite & bold, I'm confident. ---- and eventually moving up to the higher stages of seeing how this entire thing is playing out from a thousand foot elevation. You will pass through these stages in your psyche whether you're aware of it or not. You might even see parts of your psyche already in this. You are building up your self image, this is what you NEED right now to move up (don't even worry about enlightenment/transcending the ego if you're looking at that stuff.) start getting success, start creating a life purpose, understanding what you value, what you like, what inspires you, find things that you see and think "that's me." even if it's a song, a video, or anything emotional you resonate with. the more you can understand and connect with your personality the more you'll be able to build your identity and ultimately be and feel "real".

You're defending the sociobiological perspective of the old ideals of provider and protector and that's fine, that is a factor as I've already told you, but you're putting it on this pedestal like it's the only factor or even the main component of attraction. It's not. you don't consider things like - familiarity (knowing each other well or having subconscious rapport aka proximity attraction) - Propinquity (developed social circles, the unique roles people play within those circles) - Chemical attraction (scents, smells that link directly to our emotions that (might be a surprise to you) help us and remind us of things) - Reinforcement (you make others feel more important and attractive just by being around them, making them more valuable and possibly more effective in the world & even more attractive in the world.) - Similarity (Helping each other grow on insecurity levels, or complimentary insecurities --- you having a skillset that can help them overcome their insecurities and they have a skillset that can help you overcome yours) Orange only sees the surface level crap. They can't see the engine under the hood, and from a evolutionary perspective, not being able to see under the hood and the deeper complexities leads to Oranges extinction.

Well, for one you wouldn't be asking this question if you mastered the skillset of getting women in your life. You'd be thinking "I already know how to get women whenever I want, or to have a woman in my life. let's move onto something else." But you don't have that skill and you feel conflicted about it. You don't need a girlfriend, but you want the ability/skillset to have a girlfriend if you so desire. You don't need her. You want the skill.

oh, just pointing out your assumption without feedback that we didn't already know the map isn't the territory.

You don't even know what confidence is in reality. to you its just a definition in your text book lol lol no that's just your thinking/projection. Spiral dynamics is just a map. its not the territory. Its just pointers.

Stay stuck for all I care lol, I'm not saying the things you said are somehow not valid and shouldn't be considered into the equation, I'm saying they're completely misguided and ignorant to deny having an intangible such as confidence (the number 1 thing women are attracted to) dismissed and pushed aside for all that other crap. Confidence doesn't limit itself and box itself in with your type of thinking. Yeah, consider those things, but don't make that the main focus compared to the big fish that is confidence and imperturbableness, the intangibles.

LOL Pure stage Orange thinking right here. Why would you box yourself in to such a limited view of reality, this is exactly the type of thinking people like Eliot Rodger and sub-cultures like Incels use to play the victim and stay stuck.

@Nexeternity @JustinS Yeah I was talking about Orange girls for sure. I need to meet some Greener girls, I still think it's very important to wear your heart on your sleeve, as long as you stay grounded. (Not whining and bitching and moaning throughout the day/your life about it as @JustinS said) There's this girl I saw on youtube that is Green/Blue and is a perfect example of a girl that I would love to have in my life haha.