Nilsi

Now you're just making shit up. If I join a hippie commune and as I'm getting acculturated, I drop some previously held boundaries and social constructs and end up having a bisexual orgy - is that manipulation and power dynamics, or is it me opening myself up to new experiences?

The difference being that in the cases of Adi Da, Osho, Carl Jung etc. all people involved did consent. Is BDSM unethical to you, just because someone is getting "hurt"?

I don't think Adi Da or Osho thought of the people in their communes as their "students." I could easily call you insensitive and absolutist for projecting your pet social constructs on different cultural contexts.

You have to be good at shutting up your logical mind, if you want to improve your game (you want to access SeFi ideally). Becoming a chess grandmaster certainly won't help with that.

It is not in the realm of things with which ethics should concern itself. Of course we want a marriage of beauty, goodness and truth, but this can only emerge naturally. If you let ethics reign over beauty and truth, the result will be way worse than had you just minded your own damn business.

It's a blur. If you're having a heart surgery, there is a clear "a to b" procedure and we can enforce clear ethical guidelines around it. If you're a psychoanalyst, things get a lot trickier. Do you think Peter Ralstons retreats are ethical? What about Carl Jung banging his patients? How about Adi Das commune? Is it unethical if it does what it's supposed to do? And, of course, ethics are directly antithetical to Truth.

Nice meme.

He [Ken Wilber] lacks, entirely, the 7th Code, and has no idea how/when/where each of the Codes have emerged. I will gladly challenge him to a public debate but he still hides out in his loft in Denver. The whole idea of “tiers” is uniquely language from our work which he “steals” in order to market his. The man lacks any ethical basis when he does so. He is nothing beyond RED-ORANGE. If he wants to develop his own system then he should do so without exploiting my life time of work which he continues to do.

When working on Zen, some people, owing to their incapability [or just reluctance] of raising the "doubt-sensation," begin to suppress the arising of thoughts. When all thoughts have been suppressed, these people experience a lucid and pure serenity, thoroughly clear, without the slightest taint. This, however, constitutes the very root source of the consciousness which they cannot break through. This is the consciousness within the realm of life and death. It is not Zen. Their fault is that at the start of their Zen practice they did not work penetratingly enough on the Hua Tou: thus, the doubt-sensation did not arise. As a result they either suppress thought and become dead-void heretics, or plunging into self-indulgent conceit, they mislead and cheat the ignorant, diverting people's faith and hindering their progress on the Bodhi Path.

How? Ever heard of Elon Musk, Daniel Schmachtenberger, Nikola Tesla...? INTJs are notoriously great at a lot of things. Leo is a prototypical INTJ.

Of course. I'm obviously not saying, "let's write a list of people that would be qualified to create and enforce such rules"; I'm saying "let's not create and enforce such rules in the first place."

This is the reality of your situation. I genuinely care for you, but I can't help you any other way than this.

If you insist. The finger is still pointing to the moon...

You're conflating the absolute with the relative as well though. Spirituality is pointing to the absolute. You can deny this all you want, but at a certain point these conversations just break down, because you can't contain the truth in some finite ethical system. It's almost as if some bald guy named Ken Wilber had been talking about this shit for 30 years now...

The road to hell is paved with good intentions. You can't give people that are spiritually clueless a say in these things, that's just out of question. We need better education, better parenting, better governance, better religion, better economics, better agriculture, better communities...- yes. You can't just nail some tenets to a wall and expect that to solve this problem.

Nobody here is advocating for abuse. This is like saying "if you're against gun control, you support school shootings."

In my book you're not being a man if you run away from your commitments and responsibilities.

Fine. The point is, you're not being a man then.

Go to psycINFO or whatever database your university uses and search for Spiral Dynamics, or Integral and related stuff.

Take it or leave it.

Ikr

Just running away from your family and generally being an asshole does not make you a man. You could have gone there for Christmas and had a straight forward face to face talk with your family about your boundaries, but instead you're hiding and ignoring them like a little child.

Why on God's green earth do you give these people authority in the first place? Totally. I'm interested in that as well. I don't see this trend. Isolation sucks. We should create culture, social systems and individuals, that are capable of supporting you and being there for you, but we can't walk your "spiritual path" for you, that's just how it is