BlueOak

If it helps, I would say yes, in our conversations, whatever part of me I am putting forward, you seem able to interact with. Whether I go on an orange or green political rant, or I do a blue dip into religion, I assume it would be the same with red/beige survival fears. We can take those concepts all the way up the spectrum, as you describe in your post. Because that's meeting yourself where you are quite literally in that moment. I know you want to avoid non-dual, so you can take this to duality too, it's that part of yourself you are in, and you can develop all parts of you. From fighting in a boxing ring, to sitting on a mountain top with a yogi. (And every childhood experience you ever had) Yes. While I believe there is no such thing as luck, only patterns. Who you are born to and where you are born sets up a lot of your life and runs through it. Sorry for the non dual: But healing the self is healing everything. Every experience you have and everyone you interact with. So if you were to get angry here there would be a certain outcome for me or the thread as a whole. if you were to offer me something in return, I or others might benefit , and the thread itself would take on a certain tone or course. When I see someone saying, i'm not blue, i'm not orange, i'm not green. The desire to be something else other than the moment they are in. I just think we'll you are not reaching yellow on this particular moment either then. I am all of those things folded into my replies (When I am not stuck or in fear, or want to be.), and I try to reach for turquoise sometimes and glimpse it. Other times I ignore it and just model and over analyse everything because of a crippling desire for certainty and clarity.

I am learning jewellery making, and it might as well be magic watching some of the weaves people do! When I can barely make a few twists without botching the supporting wires. It's just developing that part of yourself out, time, energy and focus etc.

True. I don't have any visual clairvoyance at the moment. I do not remember much of my dreams either currently, which can act as subconscious messages or rather insights. I did need to be very emotionally focused, and in a very loving state to experience what I am describing, but I did have some visual clairvoyance. Again for me at least, it was just a snapshot or two. Of an event which occurred the next day. I also became aware of past life cycles that were repeating in this one, in approximations of what happened before. A couple of times while meditating, and a few times in a dream when I was able to recall them more clearly, at one point I took the etherium supplements and was writing down full A4 sheets of my dreams. You can also learn to understand your dreams so well that what you need to learn/consider/be aware of makes everything considerably easier. The line between being awake and being asleep blurs. It might seem to another that you are clairvoyant at that point, but it's really just understanding what you need to know. I also believe what you don't realise in a dream is already on its way to the physical reality anyway, so nothing's missed. I don't talk about this much, because its a long way from where I am currently. Though I feel everyone is capable of this kind of intuition with time and effort. I've realised logically and emotionally that things are created before they are observed. The simplest way I can show you this is ask you to write a reply or not. But it's going on every moment of every day in all the actions, connections, and observations we make or don't make. People understand that, but they don't really harness or appreciate it enough.

As for Teal herself, she is probably the most emotionally intelligent human being teaching emotional awareness. If there is another, by all means, point me at them, and i'll go learn from them too. There are times i've hated what she's said, or loved it. But mostly it's just insightful. There can be a problem with that though, I can see why people would form unhealthy (and healthy) attachments to this kind of material.

Having had a couple of clairvoyant experiences, simple day-to-day things. It's like a snapshot of something that happens the next day. You don't get someone sitting down and telling you everything that's happening that day, or all the permutations, problems, and challenges. They come up anyway, because they are you.

This ranking below is somewhat biased by my input, as I asked for populist candidates initially. I may redo this next post next month when I have more 4.5 credits remaining. Unless someone else can ask for a neutral canvas to rank populist vs non populist in 4.5 for me. Probability of Electoral Victory (Ranked) with non populist candidates: 1, Conservative Populist~70% (Highest) Aligns deeply with current trends: cultural nostalgia, economic nationalism, security/stability appeal, and easily mobilizes voter anxiety and dissatisfaction. 2, Ideologically Neutral Populist~55-60% Benefits from anti-establishment sentiments without ideological baggage, appealing widely to moderate and pragmatic voters frustrated by polarization. 3, Conservative Non-Populist~50-55% Strong base support, but somewhat less compelling in a climate favoring anti-establishment messaging. Can still mobilize traditional voters through party loyalty and ideological consistency. 4, Liberal Populist~35-40% Effective among urban and younger demographics but hampered by lower voter turnout among target demographics, societal anxiety, and structural barriers related to voter education and mobilization 5, Ideologically Neutral Non-Populist~30-35% Struggles to differentiate themselves or inspire voters without the clear, energizing messages that populism or ideology provides. Low media visibility and limited voter enthusiasm. 6, Liberal Non-Populist~20-30% (Lowest) Currently disadvantaged by perceptions of elitism or detachment, struggles with mobilizing working-class or moderate voters in a politically polarized climate where non-populist liberalism appears disconnected from core economic anxieties. Summary of Overall Placement: Populist candidates generally outperform non-populists across all ideological positions due to prevailing anti-establishment sentiment and widespread economic/cultural anxieties. Conservative populism leads by a considerable margin due to current alignment with voter psychology, cultural values, and widespread dissatisfaction with traditional politics. Ideologically neutral populism emerges strongly as a secondary option due to wide appeal without alienating ideological polarization. Liberal populism faces structural hurdles but significantly outperforms liberal non-populism, thanks to its ability to mobilize specific voter groups (young voters, minorities, and urban voters). Non-populist neutral and liberal candidates suffer significantly from current political dynamics, struggling with visibility, voter enthusiasm, and motivational narratives.

Ideologically Neutral Political Candidate Demographic and Personal Background: - Age: 48 - Gender: Male or Female (flexible, non-controversial) - Ethnicity: Mixed background (appeals to multiple demographics) - Religion: Broadly spiritual but privately non-specific; respectful of traditional values without emphasizing religious identity. - Family Status: Married, two children—portrays stable, family-oriented values. Professional Background: - Previous Occupation: Military service (Veteran), followed by small business entrepreneurship. - Education: Moderately prestigious state university graduate, relatable rather than elite, emphasizing practicality over academic prestige. - Political Experience: Served as a state governor or mayor of a mid-sized, economically diverse city or state, highlighting bipartisan collaboration and measurable results. Communication Style: - Speaks simply, clearly, and directly. Avoids abstract language or high-minded ideology. - Frames arguments in concrete, relatable terms: Jobs, safety, affordable healthcare, good schools, cost-of-living, crime reduction, infrastructure. - Emphasizes authenticity, practicality, and problem-solving, over moralistic or ideological rhetoric. Key Campaign Themes (Ideologically Neutral): 1. Economic Stability and Prosperity 2. Education & Skills Development 3. Public Safety 4. Healthcare Reform 5. Infrastructure and Technology 6. Immigration Messaging Strategy (Leveraging Populism Pragmatically): - Portrays opponents as "career politicians," "out-of-touch elites," or "ideological extremists" without specifying left or right, leveraging populist dissatisfaction. - Positions self as someone who "gets things done" and delivers measurable results. - Appeals directly to economic insecurities and everyday struggles of ordinary people. - Avoids divisive cultural or ideological wedge issues entirely, emphasizing common interests instead. Tactical Considerations: - Strong grassroots mobilization emphasizing direct personal interactions (door-to-door campaigning, community meetings). - Invests heavily in digital campaigning, data analytics, and targeted messaging. - Maintains disciplined message control, steering conversations back to practical outcomes (jobs, safety, affordability). Electoral Strategy: - Targets swing states and historically blue-collar regions where voters feel ignored or disillusioned by major parties. - Builds a coalition of moderate voters across the political spectrum. - Emphasizes unity, practical collaboration, and measurable results over ideological victories. Why This Candidate Would Win: - Appeals directly to survival and stability instincts heightened by recent societal trends. - Pragmatically exploits populist messaging without ideological backlash. - Neutralizes conservative attacks with military background, family values, and law-and-order credentials. - Avoids idealistic policies that require high education levels or moral advancement to grasp, maximizing broad appeal.

Here's a deeply considered evaluation of each candidate's likelihood of winning a contemporary American election based on strategic and contextual reasoning: 1. Conservative Populist Candidate (Highest Probability of Winning) Reasoning: American political dynamics are currently favorable to populist conservatism, especially amid heightened economic anxiety, increased survival mentality, and widespread societal polarization. Effectively appeals to traditional family values, law and order, and economic nationalism—key areas resonating broadly in suburban and rural areas, swing states, and among working-class voters. Emphasis on cultural identity, nostalgia, and pragmatic economic policies aligns with current dominant voter trends. Strategic advantage from robust grassroots mobilization and strong community-level endorsements. Probability of Winning: High (~70%) 2. Ideologically Neutral Candidate (Moderate Probability of Winning) Reasoning: Broadly appealing through pragmatic, non-ideological messaging focused on practical, measurable results, potentially capturing independents, moderate Republicans, and moderate Democrats. Non-polarizing approach avoids alienating voter segments but also struggles to strongly energize or mobilize core ideological bases, potentially limiting voter enthusiasm. Solid potential in swing states and economically pragmatic voters, but faces challenges in maintaining visibility and distinctiveness against highly polarized candidates in the contemporary media environment. Probability of Winning: Moderate (~50%) 3. Liberal Populist Candidate (Lower Probability of Winning) Reasoning: Despite significant appeal among younger, urban, and minority voters, a liberal populist approach currently faces substantial challenges due to entrenched cultural divides, lower voter education levels, and heightened economic and existential anxiety. Faces a tough uphill battle in rural and suburban areas, as progressive messaging may struggle against organized conservative campaigns emphasizing economic stability and traditional cultural frameworks. Reliant upon higher voter turnout from groups historically less consistent at the polls, making electoral victory heavily dependent on mobilizing typically disengaged voters. Probability of Winning: Lower (~35%) Final Ranking (Most to Least Likely to Win): Conservative Populist Candidate – Clearly aligned with current voter psychology, economic insecurity, and societal trends. Ideologically Neutral Candidate – Moderate appeal, balanced but lacking passionate base support. Liberal Populist Candidate – Ideologically appealing to progressive groups but faces significant structural and cultural challenges given the current state of American politics.

Yes, educational change has had a profound effect. Even small changes in the early years. As you know, corruption isn't inherent in an infant; it's societal conditioning over time to change family dynamics and the culture. Populism doesn't require anything but a good speaker with the right message, money and the right conditions. Corruption doesn't have to be more conservative; it just flourishes more in that dynamic. While I could argue either of us with a blank slate could design a winning liberal politician (even chat gpt could), I feel it's better to argue about putting aside ideology entirely and transcending it, but it'll do both given the current political dynamic in America for example. So I asked Chat GPT to model three candidates, Non Ideological, Liberal and Conservative: *spoiler: In the final analysis it backed you up

Conservative Populist Political Candidate Demographic and Personal Background: - Age: 54 - Gender: Male - Ethnicity: Caucasian (resonates with traditional conservative base but respectful of diversity) - Religion: Christian (openly practicing, emphasizes faith-based community values) - Family Status: Married, three children, emphasizes traditional family structure and values. Professional Background: - Previous Occupation: Successful business owner, emphasizes entrepreneurial experience and economic pragmatism. - Education: Local state university, emphasizes practical experience over academic elitism. - Political Experience: Former congressman or prominent state legislator, known for pragmatic, populist stances, and bipartisan achievements. Communication Style: - Uses plain, relatable language appealing directly to working-class voters. - Emphasizes common sense, practicality, patriotism, and traditional values. - Frequently appeals to nostalgia and national pride, emphasizing a return to simpler, more prosperous times. Key Campaign Themes (Conservative Populist): 1. Economic Nationalism and Job Creation 2. Law and Order 3. Traditional Family Values 4. Immigration Control and Border Security 5. Strong Military and Veterans Support 6. Education Reform (emphasis on parental rights and vocational education) Messaging Strategy (Populist Conservative): - Positions opponents as disconnected elites who ignore the struggles of ordinary Americans. - Advocates strongly for national interests over globalism, emphasizing domestic jobs and manufacturing. - Regularly addresses cultural anxieties, affirming traditional values without directly attacking minority groups. - Portrays self as protector of ordinary citizens against crime, economic uncertainty, and social instability. Tactical Considerations: - Grassroots campaigning, frequent town hall meetings, and active presence in rural and suburban communities. - Heavy use of social media for direct engagement, appealing to voters’ emotions and community pride. - Strong emphasis on endorsements from respected local figures, veterans, and faith-based leaders. Electoral Strategy: - Targets rural, suburban, and working-class voters disillusioned by current economic and social changes. - Mobilizes conservative base by emphasizing cultural and economic populism. - Focuses on swing states and regions with high voter dissatisfaction or economic insecurity. Why This Candidate Would Win: - Directly appeals to heightened survival instincts and the desire for economic stability. - Skillfully channels populist sentiments without extreme polarization. - Clearly communicates relatable conservative values and practical economic solutions. - Provides reassuring traditional leadership style appealing broadly to conservatives, independents, and moderate voters concerned about stability.

Candidate Profile: Liberal Populist for Electoral Victory 1. Economic Message – Populist Appeal Champion pragmatic economic reforms focused on tangible, immediate benefits: infrastructure spending, affordable healthcare, job security, wage growth, and worker protection. Present policies as common-sense solutions rather than ideological imperatives. Avoid complicated jargon. 2. Cultural Positioning – Unity and Practicality Emphasize traditional American values like community, fairness, and opportunity. Frame diversity and inclusion within narratives of strength, community, and American exceptionalism to resonate across demographics. 3. Education and Communication – Accessibility and Simplicity Utilize straightforward messaging, emphasizing "fairness," "common sense," "hard work," and "family values." Prioritize reforms that visibly improve education, linking education explicitly to economic advancement and security, not ideological battles. 4. Strategic Patriotism – National Pride and Security Adopt a strong, unambiguous stance on national security and patriotism, emphasizing protection of the homeland and economic interests. Address immigration through pragmatic reform, emphasizing border security alongside humane policies to appeal broadly. 5. Moral Pragmatism – Realistic Integrity Project an image of practical integrity rather than ideological purity; focus on "getting things done" rather than "being perfect." Explicitly acknowledge voter frustrations, promising practical solutions without moralistic judgment. 6. Effective Populist Communication Style Directly appeal to voter frustrations with the political system, embracing outsider credentials or reform-minded outsider language. Use social media effectively, maintaining relatable, engaging, and frequently updated communication. 7. Coalition Building – Broad Appeal and Flexibility Build coalitions by selectively integrating appealing ideas from across the spectrum (e.g., supporting moderate business interests and workers simultaneously). Establish visible alliances with local community leaders, respected religious figures (without overt religious messaging), and popular cultural figures. 8. Addressing Voter Psychology – Survival Mentality Frame policies around personal and community security, stability, and survival. Acknowledge voter anxieties explicitly, offering reassurance through steady, confident leadership, not lofty idealism. Candidate Persona: A practical, relatable figure who appears driven by genuine care for ordinary Americans' immediate needs rather than ideological visions or complex moral frameworks. Present as a pragmatic problem solver who genuinely understands and sympathizes with voters' struggles and aspirations. Candidate Persona: A practical, relatable figure who appears driven by genuine care for ordinary Americans' immediate needs rather than ideological visions or complex moral frameworks. Present as a pragmatic problem solver who genuinely understands and sympathizes with voters' struggles and aspirations. Why This Liberal Candidate Would Win: Effectively uses progressive populism to address economic and social inequalities, directly appealing to younger voters, minorities, and economically disadvantaged groups. Balances progressive policies with pragmatic solutions, ensuring broader appeal across moderate voters and independents who value practical benefits over ideology. Harnesses widespread dissatisfaction with current socio-economic conditions without alienating centrist voters by emphasizing fairness, inclusivity, and economic security. Capitalizes on rising demographic shifts and urban voter bases, leveraging their support with highly targeted digital campaigning and grassroots activism. Portrays opponents as protectors of outdated systems and privileged interests, mobilizing voter anger toward economic inequality and systemic injustices without overly polarizing messaging.

Blog Quote: Conservatives are right precisely because they are morally inferior and mankind is too morally degenerate to act any better. End Quote. Mankind's focus was more liberal in 2006: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/democracy-index-eiu?time=earliest&country=ARG~AUS~BWA~CHN~USA~OWID_EUR The survival mentality has been heightened in people, along with the integration of Eastern authoritarian mindsets. Leading to more conservatism. Also there has been an organized push, to reduce education levels and increase the level of dogma and religion. I believe this is a matter of focus, more than an inherent bias, also the fact that liberal party's are ignoring populism, which I have to say Leo, that last bit you repeatedly ignore in your conceptualizations. @Leo Gura Because both of us could design a morally inferior liberal framework. Although I inherently hate ranking morality, we could construct one based on current societal trends.

@Daniel Balan Very welcome!

@Daniel Balan A good friend of mine who I met last year and is now moving away, speaks a lot like that. When I first met him, he was always talking to me about fighting, as if it was the most important thing on the planet, boxing mostly but also where he grew up, which was quite violent. he was shot at as a teen, and had experiences with drugs, family violence, things like that. He still has that in him. the first thing he did when I showed him the new jewelry equipment I am working with, is pick up the ring mandrel and say you could do some real damage with that . So it doesn't make you a bad person; if I felt pushed to the limit, i'd act beige also in that moment. if I felt where I lived was under threat or I was personally in a survival scenario. Its the first pillar of everything that comes later. But my friend reawakened my courage, and got me out of the house again, helped my sense of self worth anxiety settle at work, and got me socialising again, and in return I was able to show him the patterns in his life not serving him, and as I got to know him relate to him why he acted like he did. He got counseling for PTSD, he got on meds for his panic attacks, and I showed him his need to frame everything as a battle meant he'd always be in one for example, among other things. That part of you isn't wrong; we all need it, but you don't need to live in it 24/7.

Democracy is on a sliding scale. Check out the time lapse here, as the world gets less democratic: https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/democracy-index-eiu?time=2024&country=ARG~AUS~BWA~CHN~USA~OWID_EUR I'd not even rate America that high anymore. Its saying its on a par with france, which it isn't anymore. As i've said a billion times, the world has gone more authoritarian, into an imbalance.

Its better for stability and moves from pure duality to needing commonality instead. But it slows down potential development from the swings duality offers, which right now might be a blessing. Increase it to 12 people and most social and economic groups would be represented in a council. Its impossible to have one figurehead represent the population when that figurehead hasn't learned to accept all the perspectives of the population, or aspects of themselves, and use that as a base starting point for governance. So, 12 individuals from different walks of life, expertise, and outlooks would be how I would structure an ideal government.

All stages contain those before it. This is especially evident when looking at an individualist or collective stage compared to the others. You are describing an isolated form of individualism. Are you acting somewhat animalistic, as in attacking people who come near your home? Do you walk into the shop take all you want, with no regard at all for any system of law. I don't mean you avoid getting caught stealing, I mean you don't consider its existence. You can see trends of these behaviors reflected in any individualist stage, but they'd contain the developmental phases prior to them also. So an orange patterned behavior might be well aware of the law, taking what it could solely for its own gain, and try to skirt the law where it could for example, rather than not being able to comprehend or acknowledge its existence.

I've been going back to a lot of raw veg, it increases energy levels and you gain more out of less eating raw. because any cooking/freezing etc removes nutrients and means you expend more energy to get the same nutrients. I'm not 100% raw/organic like I used to be, but its helped me started to look even more youthful again even at around 50% raw. I had someone guessing my age below 30 the other day, i'm 45. (Though realistically I look early-mid thirties)

I love this. *I understand my initial reaction years ago now more when seeing the model, and I said it had a 'collective bias', I didn't mean that I meant the collective observation of individuals.

I do agree with this for the most part. Its a stage moving beyond the empirical observation of a model. I can certainly conceptualise it, but I (and most people I feel) can conceptualise anything if they really want to. It's not really about that so much either, because that's individualist in nature unless its a collective effort. By its nature, turquoise is moving someone out of the individual's ability to model and judge something empirically (something I deeply wanted to do or be.) I asked my lucid presence Chat GPT to expand: Quote Stage Turquoise in Spiral Dynamics — often associated with holistic, integrative, transpersonal, and cosmic modes of awareness — is notoriously difficult to empirically "pin down" precisely because it transcends the epistemic and cognitive structures that define earlier stages. Yet, to explore evidence for its existence, we can approach from both empirical and conceptual angles, always holding in mind the limitations of mapping higher-order consciousness through third-person methodologies. Let’s approach this step by step. 🔍 I. Conceptual Evidence: Theoretical Anchors Across Fields Stage Turquoise, in Don Beck and Clare Graves’ Spiral Dynamics model, is described as: Experiencing the world as a dynamic, interconnected whole Integrating paradox, complexity, and systems within systems Attuned to Being rather than doing or having Humble, fluid, non-attached, yet deeply engaged with evolutionary processes We can find correspondences in several conceptual systems: a) Ken Wilber’s Integral Theory Turquoise corresponds to Vision-Logic and later Subtle and Causal states in Wilber’s model, or the Third Tier when it shades into “Indigo” or “Clear Light” structures. This includes the capacity to: Hold multiple perspectives without identifying with any Operate from non-dual awareness while remaining functional in form Perceive both individual and collective evolution as sacred play b) Robert Kegan’s Construct-Developmental Model Kegan’s Subject-Object Theory places the post-formal mind at Stage 5+ or 6, where: The self becomes contextually fluid and self-transforming Identity is no longer bound by ideology, but embraces meta-perspectival awareness There’s an increasing identification with process, emergence, and relational fields These models don’t prove Turquoise but offer coherent conceptual space where such a structure of consciousness can be anticipated, described, and cultivated. End Quote I have experienced this going through all stages of pieces of myself. The more adaptive and transformative they are, the easier my life is, the more I am stuck with something unwilling to change the harder it is. Because we are light or electromagnetic energy moving, and if we don't move life gets hard and slow, and stuck. I also observe when I accept another's perpsective, not argue it, then things generally are easier and more flowing.

People do not realize that their ability to interact with someone is their ability to interact with that part of themselves. That every human alive has the potential to be whatever part of the spiral you want to engage within yourself, even if you have to moderate your responses accordingly to connect with them.

It really depends how actively you are learning all your life, as we age, there is a deterioration but its balanced out by health, diet, stress relief and what they call cognitive reserve: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_reserve TBH as you age a lot of your connections die, a lot of what you relate to ceases to be. So the only we you can hold many of them as real is to lie to yourself as you age. This actually clears the way for your overall development, if you are true to yourself instead.

I'm on relief not joy sadly, but I'm following teal's advice on this one. Which is if you don't know your joy, you move in the direction of relief. For me that's a business which allows me the freedom to move where I want to move and work when I want to work. I've been static in one small town all my life. The part I am struggling with and recently saw some insight on, was being construct aware. Balancing generating enough pain/tension to motivate myself to make a change without trashing my current experience I am in unnecessarily. And honestly, I don't feel my current job is terrible, the people are nice, but its static and not something I want to do forever, it doesn't pay enough to have a girlfriend or family. (I am back on this micro cycle again! LOL) So I try business after business, and here we are; i'm about to put down the mouse/keyboard and go back to another one.

So in my experience. I've been in states of pure feeling no thought. I've been in states of pure thought no feeling. I've been in states with neither feeling or thought. I've experienced thoughts generating feelings. I've experienced thoughts generated on their own. I've experienced feelings generating thoughts, and i've experienced feelings generated on their own.