axiom

A bit of both. Once the self disappears, it is obvious that it could never have been responsible for anything... because it never existed at all. The human mind feels like it operates with agency, of course. But that is part of the illusion of self. When trapped in dualism at the human level, one seemingly cannot operate independently of all the cause and effect relationships of the universe.

There are no fools. There is no volition involved in any path one appears to take.

Yes, there are people on psych wards who could manifest a refrigerator out of thin air - at least in terms of their own experience of the world. There are also people who can manifest what appears to be a discussion on a forum about refrigerators. In both cases these things can be engaged with as if they are entirely real.

This is actually the same point being made by Jim Newman and Tony Parsons as far as I can see. Yes, there is such a thing as adopting ideas and parroting them, but that does not make the message itself flawed. It is equally easy to adopt the idea of "an easy path" as it is to adopt the idea of "a difficult path". Both are seductive in their own ways. If your identity is wrapped up with or predisposed to one, you'll be disinclined to accept the other. In truth, the path is irrelevant. I think the bodybuilder in this example says "you're wrong, it's all about lifting weights".

On Boxing Day of 1799 the twenty-year-old chemist Humphry Davy stripped to the waist, placed a thermometer under his armpit and stepped into a sealed box specially designed for the inhalation of gases, into which he requested his assistant, Dr. Kinglake, to release twenty quarts of nitrous oxide every five minutes for as long as he could retain consciousness. The experiment was taking place in the lamp-lit laboratory of the Pneumatic Institution, an ambitious and controversial medical project where the young Davy had been taken on as laboratory assistant. In the centre of the laboratory, he had set up a chemical reaction: nitrate of ammoniac bubbled in a heated retort, and the escaping gas was being collected in a hydraulic bellows before seeping through water into a reservoir tank from which the sealed box was filled. After an hour and a quarter, by which time he estimated that his system was fully saturated, Davy stepped out of the box and proceeded to inhale a further twenty quarts of the gas from a series of oiled green silk bags. While seated in the box breathing deeply, Davy had felt the effects that had become familiar from his many previous experiments since he had first inhaled the gas earlier that year. The first signature was its curiously benign sweet taste, followed by a gentle pressure in the head as he continued to inhale. Within thirty seconds the sensation of soft, probing pressure had extended to his chest, and the tips of his fingers and toes. This was accompanied by a vibrant burst of pleasure, and a gradual change in the world around him. Objects became brighter and clearer, and the space in the cramped box seemed to expand and take on unfamiliar dimensions. Now, under the influence of the largest dose of nitrous oxide anyone had ever taken, these effects were intensified to levels he could not have imagined. His hearing became fantastically acute, allowing him to distinguish every sound in the room and seemingly from far beyond: a vast and distant hum, perhaps the vibration of the universe itself. In his field of vision, the objects around him were teasing themselves apart into shining packets of light and energy. He was rising effortlessly into new worlds whose existence he had never suspected. Somehow, the whole experience was irresistibly funny: he had ‘a great disposition to laugh’, as all his senses competed to exercise their new-found freedom to its limit. Now the gas took Davy to a dimension he had not previously visited. Objects became dazzling in their intensity, sounds were amplified into a cacophony that echoed through infinite space, the thrillings in his limbs seemed to effervesce and overflow; and then, suddenly, he ‘lost all connection with external things’, and entered a self-enveloping realm of the senses. Words, images and ideas jumbled together ‘in such a manner, as to produce perceptions totally novel’: he was no longer in the laboratory, but ‘in a world of newly connected and modified ideas’, where he could theorise without limits and make new discoveries at will. After an eternity he was brought back to earth by Dr. Kinglake removing the breathing-tube from his mouth; the outside world seeped back into his ‘semi-delirious trance’ and, as the energy returned to his limbs, he began to pace around the room. Yet a part of him was still present in the dimension of mind that had swallowed him whole, and he struggled for the words to capture it. He ‘stalked majestically’ towards Kinglake ‘with the most intense and prophetic manner’, and attempted to shape the insight that had possessed him. ‘Nothing exists but thoughts!’, he blurted. ‘The world is composed of impressions, ideas, pleasures and pains!’

Seems like most of you are in agreement with each other, but using language in subtly different ways. Anyway... I see some suggestions that people are somehow "doing it wrong". By the same logic, a planet-killing comet really ought to reconsider its Earth-bound trajectory. Neither the comet nor the person has agency. It strikes me that much of the reticence around the uncompromising messages of Jim Newman and Tony Parsons is to do with ego, i.e. attachment to a spiritual identity and in particular the misapprehension that so many years of seeking and practicing must count for something.

I love NDE stories. Often they send shivers up my spine as I've experienced incredibly similar things myself. In my view, the different levels of awakening can be likened to an infinite number of concentric circles (really just nested imaginary realms). NDEs and DMT experiences occupy such circles, which are probably quite some distance from regular waking reality. Oneness and infinity occupy other circles, possibly further out, possibly not.

Sounds like you had a beautiful experience. I totally get where you're coming from regarding the "invisible gap" separating you. When you're in state of such incredibly heightened consciousness you do become very acutely aware of emotional blockages, fears and co-dependence. I recall a time when I'd just been laughing the cosmic laugh at the top of my lungs, writhing around on my bed, unable to contain the infinite energy of GOD and pure unconditional love. And in middle of all of that, my partner rushed into the room to berate me because she was worried about what the neighbours must be thinking. Hah! The emotional juxtaposition can feel like pure absurdity.

I would say he's had a very powerful realisation. Unfortunately (in my view) his gestures can appear both affected and stagy. For example the "magical movements" he makes during his 5MEO trips feel like like nothing other than the dance of an inflated ego to me. I find them quite hilarious, and more than a little silly. Granted, that might be my weakness and not his. But then there is also his "God voice", which is strikingly similar to the voice of God in 'The Ten Commandments'... and it's hard to take that stuff seriously. Poor embodiment in this sense sometimes gets in the way of an otherwise useful message. So it may be that he has realised God, but that doesn't automatically make someone a good teacher... and it doesn't make someone ego-less. To the extent that is possible, it takes radical honesty with oneself and embodiment on multiple levels. I haven't watched much of his stuff for a few years, so it's quite possible he's changed.

I have noticed lately that the sense of "me" isn't constant. It has the same way of materialising and dissipating as all other thoughts. In flow states, during sleep and while daydreaming for example. However, as far as I recall - although I may be wrong here - Spira wasn't suggesting that general anaesthesia in his own case created a state of "awareness without wakefulness" (although of course such states do exist and I'm sure that G.A. can indeed create them). I think he was simply saying that his awareness was continuous; that there was no interruption. He was awake and aware before the anaesthetic, and he was awake and aware after the anaesthetic. There was no experience of anything "during the anaesthetic", or if there was, he cannot recall it in the present moment... which in fact means the state of interrupted consciousness, as Sam Harris put it, isn't "real" for him.

I listened to the podcast, and I was initially confused by this. It seemed like a cop-out, since obviously most people don't experience "awareness" as such during general anaesthesia. Now I understand that Spira was saying exactly that though. His awareness was continuous. There was before the anaesthetic and then after the anaesthetic. There was no experience of time or awareness "during" the anaesthetic because from his POV that never happened.

May I ask, was this telepathically communicated to you? In my extremely intense 6G shroom trip, as I was coming around, I was left with the words "Be an example of my love in the world". It felt like God put those words straight into my head. At the time, the love I'd just experienced was so infinitely huge that it felt like an incredibly daunting if not impossible task. It also felt absolutely obvious that this was the most important thing in life.

Great wisdom here.

Striving hard to achieve something "important" to you, or planning your life around the avoidance of pain. Strongly identifying with yourself as an individual. BUT... On the relative level, up to a point, you could say exactly the reverse. The spiritual path is uncompromising and not for everyone.

I tend to think it's something to do with God / Infinity being engaged in a game of infinite self-improvement. Infinite purification of perfect love. Anti-fragility.

At the relative level such as you currently imagine it and describe it, there appears to be more than one mind, to you.

Suffering is simply to be separated from God / infinity. Humans spend their lives trying to reclaim that sense of absolute completeness and oneness with God, because the memory of what we truly are is buried deep within us. Believing ourselves to be discreet individual entities, we do this in finite ways which will always fall short. We kid ourselves we'd be 100% happy if we only had the latest iphone, that job we applied for, or if that new cancer treatment "cures" us of terminal disease. While we are human, this playing with finitude keeps us yearning for more, more, more. This is suffering. The only way to satiate this desire completely and finally is to become everything, or rather, to remember that you are everything experientially. This is enlightenment. It is not possible to embody this realisation for any length of time without dying as a human, or without the dream of your human life ending (which is the same thing).

There is no past nor future, so there are no past nor future lives. God is the eternal present. God is everything in the moment. "You" are everyone and everything. Sometimes we might notice this directly, but it's very rare. Think of an X and Y axis (time being 'X'). In our natural state, we are all travelling along X (i.e. travelling in time). We are thus always passing by eternity, and don't generally ever notice it. Perfect focus on the present moment (Y) allows us to dive into the infinite rabbit hole of eternity. In this state (achievable with meditation or with psychedelics) we become infinite. By way of a cliched (yet pretty good) visual metaphor, here's a Mandelbrot Zoom: So, it's not that we reincarnate. It's that we already are everyone and everything. Sometimes the door of perception opens just enough to remind us.

i had a small epiphany the other day relating to romantic love: The recognition that others are you = love. Thus, the extent to which you recognise yourself in "others" is the same thing as your love for them. Think about any time you've ever felt a true love-connection with anyone. It's literally all self-love. The more awake you are, the more of yourself you will see. This may seem obvious to some of you, but I think it's worth a thought next time you're pondering your relationship.

They're both English and well-spoken. But Alan Watts was first. He was a master at distilling the essence of Eastern philosophy, and has never really been matched in this regard as far as I'm aware.

I thought it would be interesting to hear some feedback from people here. This trip was actually 8 months ago. I wrote it all down the following day, as soon as I was able to function again. The after-effects are still with me in the sense that I see God in things sometimes now when completely sober. When this happens, I experience anxiety due to the sheer enormity of it all... but it's an amazing feeling at the same time. Hard to explain. Anyway, here goes: __________ I finally got the guts together to take a high dose of mushrooms. My goal was healing intense trauma from the past, overcoming depression etc. I lay down on my bed with an eyemask and headphones listening to the ICL psilocybin playlist. My original plan was to eat 2.75g (dry weight), and work my way up to a higher dose if it seemed to be unfolding positively. I set my intentions out - healing, love, asked to be helped etc. I specifically asked to be reconnected with my soul. About 40 minutes in, the euphoria was taking hold. Everything was feeling great, so I ate another .75g. I found myself in a sort of forest clearing. Weird little goblin creatures / elves with pale green skin - some with eyes on stalks - were playing peekaboo with me, as they were hiding amongst the trees, vines and bushes. Very playful. They were all welcoming me and giving me the thumbs-up. It felt like they knew me, and I knew them from somewhere too. The euphoria kept building. I'm not sure whether these creatures led me there - I think they did - but the words "the kingdom of heaven" came to my mind fairly quickly. Words utterly defy description of this place... but it dawned on me that I was a soul... that everyone was a soul. This wasn't merely an idea but a directly experienced reality. I saw millions of other souls and what might have been angels, all reaching out their arms to welcome me. The euphoria kept building and I couldn't stop laughing. The laugh started relatively slow, but it grew and it kept growing. The "joke" being unveiled to me was so profound, so ridiculously enormous in its implications that I could barely handle it. It was as if God himself / itself was laughing through me. I was being shown - with absolutely no room for doubt - that God and heaven were 100% real. I felt like I might die of astonishment. I opened my eyes, and with what was left of my human faculties (almost nothing) I somehow managed to fumble with the shroom jar. I picked a few out and started eating them like candy. I was excited by the experience so far and I wanted to prolong it. I don't know how many I ate exactly, but some of them had pretty big caps. I think I must have been approaching around 6g by then. I closed my eyes again and right away I was back in "heaven". I saw some religious iconography and remember thinking it was unbelievable how the actual kingdom of heaven has such similar iconography to that depicted in religious paintings, in churches etc. Our earthly depictions of heaven make a pretty decent job of it. Again, this was a profound joke. It was suddenly so obvious where ecclesiastical imagery comes from - sacred geometry like stained glass. I was being swept along, hanging out with all the other souls and angels. I felt that I was part of them and they were part of me. Everything seemed to be in a higher resolution and in more dimensions than our typical three. The immensity of the power and love of the place was almost impossible to handle. At some point I felt like I had seen the very face of God, and it was looking directly at me. I was writhing around. I felt so unbelievably insignificant and humbled, but I also knew with profound conviction that I was more loved and more understood than I could ever have imagined. I realised that as souls, all of us are children, and we are loved as unconditionally as any parent loves their child. My partner had come in to check on me at this point, and was holding my hand. She was worried I'd been laughing too loud and was disturbing the neighbours. I loudly proclaimed "I don't care about the neighbours", and "you don't understand, I've seen the face of God... it's almost too much to take...you're just a soul... we're all just souls..." I was so overwhelmed that I was in tears. At some point I had fallen on the floor and she was trying to get me to drink a glass of water. I only know this because “I” (my soul?) was actually standing up. Or it seemed that way. An out-of-body experience. I clearly saw my body lying on the floor and I saw her leaning over me, trying to help me. I exclaimed "Oh my God... you won't believe what I'm seeing..." or at least, that's what I thought I said. But all that actually came out of mouth was a long groan. She confirmed this all later. As the trip began to wear off, I intermittently found myself standing up leaning on the chest of drawers in the bedroom with my head resting on my arms. My whole body felt like it was made of jelly, and I kept repositioning my head over and over. How I got there in the first place I have absolutely no idea. My body must have got up from the bed and walked over there without any conscious input. After the trip ended I wondered if I’d imagined that part of it, but my partner confirmed that I had indeed been standing there, leaning on the chest, and moving my legs back and forth restlessly for two hours. During that time, in my experience, I was remembering that I was a human being. I had completely forgotten that I had ever been a human being for what seemed like millions of years. I remember muttering to myself “I’m... I'm a human being...” over and over as I stumbled around, shaking, feeling intense shock at the revelation. I tried to remember how a human body actually worked - arms and legs in particular seemed like very strange appendages. I felt my soul trying to reinhabit my body. This almost-impossible process seemed to take another few thousand years as the room - and time itself - warped and shifted accompanied by waves of nausea. Even with my eyes open I could still see countless angels and souls reaching out to me. They were trying to comfort me perhaps. It seemed they knew I was going back into my human form, so it was as if they were saying goodbye. I felt sad to leave. As my mind reassembled itself I started to panic that I had fucked myself permanently. I felt incredibly sick at this point. "Reality" kept almost coming into focus, but then slipping away again. It seemed like there were several instances of different realities, all equally real, and it could be pot luck which one I ended up in. In one such reality, I had taken an overdose and was lying in a hospital bed. I suddenly realised that I had been so traumatised by my break up ten years ago that I had tried to kill myself (this never happened), and my impression of life ever since had been completely concocted to cope with it all. This meant that the partner I thought I had today was simply a figment of my imagination, which made me sad. “That’s a shame” I thought to myself. “She was really nice.” I was stuck in this superposition-like state for an agonisingly long time. There were brief flashes of full awareness, but they would soon disappear again like a cruel joke. Reality kept shifting from one, to another, to another. I couldn't hold on to my thoughts for long... only enough to consider that I might be stuck in this nightmare forever, and maybe I had destroyed my mind. My partner was lying down next to me at this point holding my hand. I kept asking who was holding my hand every few minutes - as far as I was concerned it might have been anyone from one of the other realities. It was a very bumpy ride to say the least, but the moments where this reality dropped into sharp focus ultimately became longer and more reassuringly crystallised. Eventually I regained full sanity. To say I was relieved would be an understatement. I had never been more grateful to simply be alive, and to be human.

Thanks Leo, I hear you. The proof is in the eating. The glimpse of God that I’ve had thus far has already been life changing, but I hope to try the above at some point over the next year or two. Takes a bit of mental preparation though. Like a skydive from the edge of space.

I think to a reasonable extent, the merits of this substance or that substance are a factor of the baseline level of one's consciousness, how integrated they already are, how high they are in trait openness etc. I would not discard mushrooms necessarily as being "too twisted". I think there is some nuance here that may be useful to explore. The specific boiling temperature of anything becomes irrelevant if you hurl it into the sun. It sounds like the 5MEO type substances propel most people to a particular place regardless of their pre-existing spiritual "level", but - and I'm just speculating here - cooking one's mind at 27 million degrees celsius might not allow for nuance. What if we consider that, for some people, mushrooms or LSD or even meditation on its own can facilitate full God realisation just like 5MEO - as well as deliver more nuanced, more interesting experiences - where other comparably valuable, or even more valuable, realisations may be had? I would not discard this possibility by immediately postulating, for example, that "nuance is inherently dualistic". I can understand the temptation here, but that seems like a Wittgensteinian language game. Now, I'm very open to the idea that seeing God as oneself is the "most advanced" or "highest" state. But I also think that suggesting one knows this to be the case (due to direct experience) may be unwise. Infinity, after all, must have infinite capacity to deceive experientially. Mandelbrot fractals come to mind. When we zoom in to a fractal, there are times when things seem relatively empty. If we keep zooming in, we encounter areas of high complexity. After a while we begin to realise that there is a perpetual vacillation of sorts between highly complex and simple / elementary states. I see this as a parallel to notions of non duality and duality. Is one "a higher state" or "more real" state than the other? Or, when dealing with infinity must we also deal with an infinite number of infinitely convincing misapprehensions? Essentially I think that all substances, and all states of mind, have things to teach us about reality. I think the "highest state" may itself turn out to be illusory. ... Disclaimer: I have yet to try 5MEO...

I think that you can take some of the wisdom imparted by direct experience of God and use it to improve your life at the relative human level, absolutely. For example, striving to embody love and compassion as much as you possibly can as a human; or completely forgiving everyone who has ever hurt you, no matter what they've done - because you realise that their actions were borne out of not truly knowing love. What you can't do, in my opinion, is circumscribe God itself using words. And that's what you've asked for here. This is like trying to paint something white using only black paint (you seem to know this in any case). If you had asked instead what the biggest lessons were that people have learned from their revelations of God (I think this might actually be your question, in fact) then I reckon you'd have had some more satisfying responses.