Consept

Really and truly if we're talking cold hard facts, the vaccine is very unlikely to be dangerous, if you look at all the trials that have been done, you do research, talk or listen to experts who have worked on the vaccines, it would be very hard to make an assertion that this is dangerous. The claim that its been rushed is not really valid as with previous vaccines most of the time to develop is just red tape and bureaucracy. This isnt to gaslight anyone with fears about it, but you really have to accept this is a fear born of ignorance on the subject. I get why there is distrust in the government but if we take all the history out of it and just look at is this vaccine going to be a net negative or positive youd have to say it will be a positive. Everyone that has been against measures like lockdown and masks, ultimately just want to be able to do what they want to do, thats fine but dont dress up selfishness as anything more than that.

Was gonna post this, literally no evidence presented, youd think if there was any evidence they would have shown it ages ago. Thing is his supporters are gonna go along and hang on every word said here, hes just taking a shit on american democracy

Surely it would just be a matter of information, as in all that could be predicted if information about everything in the world could be put into some kind of algorithm. Individual example would be taking one person and maybe looking at their brain chemistry, their upbringing, personality tests and evaluations, their past, whatever else. If you put all this together and have some high level algorithm, im pretty sure youd be able to predict a lot of what they do

OK heres the thing, what everyone seems to be doing is waking everyone else up, so regarding US politics, Trumpists are saying 'wake up dems are evil', dems are saying 'wake up trumps evil' and Dore seems to be saying 'wake up theyre both evil'. The implication is that their viewpoint is the 'right' one and everyone else is wrong. What this does is block them from having a wider perspective and looking at whats wrong within their current viewpoint. If you think of what a viewpoint is, its just a narrative of how you think the world is, if youre tied to it cognitively and emotionally, anything that puts that viewpoint into question will shake you and you may become defensive. Going within and working on yourself will let you see there are now view points there are just wider and wider perspectives, sort of like instead of standing too close to a painting and only seeing a little bit of it you can take steps back and try and see the whole thing. If everyone did this and cleared out their own personal bias' and self interest and need to be right we'll all, pretty much be looking at the same picture. Divisiveness and disagreement comes from these bias'. In terms of letting the world burn, there is only so much you can do. If you take it on an individual basis, if you had a friend that was a drug addict and hes life was a mess and he really didnt want to get better, you would have to accept that mentally hes just not ready, it maybe the case that he needs his life to get worse so that in a moment of clarity he makes a change, for your part you just need to be ready to help and available when he is willing to make that change. I feel its the same with 'waking people up', clear out your own bias' and work on yourself and when others are ready or when the country is ready you will be there.

I predict Trump will lose as more people voted for Biden, but i agree it is quite a challenge to prove more people didnt vote for Biden lol. But and im 100% serious, how much are you willing to bet that Trump will not be president on the 21st of Jan?

Everyday i think i cant be surprised by trump and everyday he surprises me. The claim is that Pfizer and pharma in general are against him and the announcement of the vaccine was delayed until after the election to affect votes To even think this is one thing but to say this as president of america and announce it a press conference, what is going on here???

Just for context there's more aluminium and mercury in a can of tuna than a vaccine, there's also more in breast milk and formula milk. Also the Mercury in tuna is the type that stays in your body whereas the vaccine one doesn't. Furthermore a vaccine you'd probably only take once in your life or at most once a year in the case of a flu jab, some people eat tuna or other fish daily or weekly and obviously babies have milk everyday.

I've never really got him either, at first I thought he was a spiritual guy who was pointing out blind spots in the spiritual community through comedy. But the thing is I never saw any videos without the comedy schtick so it was never clear what exactly he was about. Then with all this pandemic, conspiracy, freedom, trump shit, he seemed to land on the conspiracy side of the wall. I'm not sure if he's just going with his audience or whatever. Came accross this interview where he's not in character with Brian Rose who is basically a con man, talking about free speech, I think this gives a better insight into JP

@Kalki Avatar Just so im clear on what youre saying, your view is that there shouldnt be a lockdown and also anyone should be able to opt out of the vaccine. This still doesnt give a clear plan on what should be done going forward. We know deaths are increasing and will increase further without any measures, there have been 60k plus excess deaths in the UK and thats with all these measures in place. Also a major problem with covid is that a high number of people can have serious symptoms, they may not die but they will need hospital care, this has a knock on effect for others who have conditions and can not get timely treatment, basically it puts significant pressure on the nhs. As far as i understand your position, you are suggesting living normally and taking no action, this is not a solution and will definitely cause deaths and many other negative consequences. Your vaccine solution of some people take it some dont is also not really viable as there needs to be something around a 90% take up rate for the population to achieve immunity and eventually kill the virus. If the virus is going around say the 40% that dont want to take it, it will always be in circulation. So again what is your actual solution, im not convinced that letting it run rampant is a viable solution and i doubt if you were in power yourself you would be able to justify the huge loss of life that has and will occur without any kind of strategy. There have been worse virus' there affect was worse because medical advancements have occurred. This is specifically deadly because its not immediately deadly, so people can have no symptoms and spread it around. If it was ebola its too deadly which is why it didnt travel. Ive also mentioned that ive used excess deaths so regardless of all causes theres been a high level of extra deaths. Covid has a low death rate compared to things like heart disease yes, but hospitals are prepared and have a rough idea of how many will come in with heart disease, its also not contagious and will not get worse month to month.

This is the nature of most businesses in our current culture, you can see it as bad but really its just the current paradigm. The reality is most people would more likely respond to hard science and business than if the language was flowery and caring, it is what it is. The fact that we are in this paradigm has led to market competition which is why the vaccine has been developed so quickly. Also they have to look at it from a business point of view because vaccines are not a big money maker for pharma companies, that is why the government subsidises them when someone gets ill, because business wise its not worth it, the pay outs theyd have to make would mean they cant continue to make vaccines. In fact most companies wanted to stop making vaccines because it wasnt worth it, governments had to step in and cover them otherwise they wouldve just stopped. Its also important that these companies do make profits so that they can continue to develop vaccines and medicines, yes they probably take the piss and pay themselves crazy bonuses, but at the core the company at least can not lose money otherwise people will die. There is a lot of manipulation and medicine that doesnt need to be sold etc, there a lots of problems with pharma. So the pharma companies as they are, are just reflective of the society we live in, as we develop hopefully we can use less orange language, but just because its that know doesnt necessarily make it bad. Also again what would be the solution, assuming people are both against lockdowns and vaccines, what do we do to get out of this?

People definitely dont realise the impact this will have, I always used to wonder how someone like hitler could get into power and i think we are seeing how right before our eyes. I dont think its a stretch to group him with hitler or other dictators btw, i have no doubt that trump would be cool with a civil war or even splitting up the country

There was the Tea Party movement which launched during Obamas term - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tea_Party_movement#Public_opinion It was basically republicans who wanted more libertarian policies and were opposed to Obama, about 28% polled said they were part of the movement, so not really near Trumps numbers but still a good chunk of people. Obama said movements like this painted him as a far left socialist and because of that the pendulum swung too far back which is why people like Sarah Palin and then Trump came through. I think what Trump has done is add unashamed, populist language to this underlying movement and empowered poor people to engage with it, even though a lot of the time theyre actually voting against their best interests. So basically there was a relatively little, manageable fire simmering and Trump put rocket fuel on it.

I understand there should obviously be a concern for anything you put in your body and therefore there should be unbiased research that goes into it, BUT, heres my question - Most people who are against a vaccine are also against a lockdown or even masks and social distancing (generalising but in my anecdotal experience), so in this case what is the actual solution? Many have died already, towards a million in fact, and thats with all these measures in place. An argument i hear a lot is, x amount of people die from heart disease etc', thats true but why would you be ok with so many extra people dying? In the UK weve had nearly 70,000 excess deaths, which is deaths this year above the average, thats not nothing, thats real people that have actually died, imagine if no measures were put in place, how many more wouldve died. A vaccine is one solution, if its true that the effectiveness is 95% that means only 50k people die instead of 1 million. But lets say we dont go down that road, what is your solution to curb the amount of deaths that have and will continue to happen for the foreseeable future, balancing that with keeping the economy going and people living their lives, what would you do or suggest? (anyone whos against the vaccine, feel free to answer)

OK so i take it if the doctor said you have a life threatening illness in which you will die within the next week unless you take a pill you would refuse? Where do you draw the line, what about safety measures, like seatbelts in cars, which are modern safety tech, should those not be worn as theyre also fear based safety measures? What youre talking about is prevention which is important however to build up an immune system that can fight off a novel disease could take years if its even possible. So prevention is not a cure, for example you wouldnt say to a hiv patient if they have a healthy diet and exercise theyll be cured, it might aid the recovery but there proven drugs and treatment they undergo that has given most a normal life span, would you disregard these treatments?

Wouldnt any modern medicine be fear orientated? Should those with HIV just let it be and stop resisting?

He would have to be because trump being turquoise is so far out of my understanding or consciousness that the only way to understand it, youd have to be coral or above lol

I think you or someone else mentioned he was at turquoise before, i dont really see why his level will go up if hes right. Mccain didnt make false claims or even bush wouldnt that put them further up than trump? I think your confusion with the election or with as you say being a yellow thinker is that im not sure you fundamentally understand spiral dynamics, im open though if you can explain your reasoning of why you put him at turquoise

Where would you put trump on the spiral?

This is fully insane and shows that even a looming death wont change someone who has strong conspiratorial thinking

If you know something theyve missed then why not say?

In that case it would be on you to thoroughly research what exactly theyve done and how theyve tested etc and how that compares to previous vaccines. If you havent done this your assumptions are not coming from a place of knowing its just speculation from ignorance of the subject matter.

Do you know how long it should take or the extent of testing that had been done? What would you advise the people working on the vaccine to do to make it more safe?

I think what it comes down to is if you trust the government or not. Those countries or people that don't trust their government and are not educated on vaccines will of course not take it. They have good reasons to not trust their government and for me this is a problem with politics, when you have a highly partisan politcal atmosphere it means that you will not trust the other side if they do get in power. Further you might not trust the government period if you have been negatively affected by their policies. A little research will show that vaccines are safe and have been very effective in eradicating illnesses, the doubt around it is due to other factors

Assuming it has been sufficiently tested as any other vaccine or medicine is or should be and there are no unwanted side effects or issues with it, then i dont really see the problem. Given this criteria, the reasons why are obvious ie reduce deaths and illness, reduce spread so that normal life can resume, reduce pressure on healthcare systems and workers etc. For me the only argument that can be made against it is if the vaccine itself is dangerous