Consept

@Gesundheit Thanks for the kind words, my ego was happy with that lol. But yes I enjoy discussing these topics so don't think I'm attacking you in anyway or think that you're arguing for a victim mindset because I don't feel that. As I said I agree with most of what you say but don't get me wrong either, I don't claim to have some definite solution to the problem of poverty, I'm only speculating, I was using ubi as an example. I also don't think it's those in povertys fault that they're there and I recognise someone will always be 'poor' or worse off than someone else, I'm not sure it has to be blunt as i become rich someone else has to be poor but I get your point. The system is rigged to a certain extent but a big factor of this starts at the early education level, simply put, those from more wealthy families have better education for their kids. Education is a massive factor in terms of getting out of poverty. If we're talking about America (I'm from UK) the way funding for schools work is that they're funded by their areas residents, do if its a poor area the funding will be poor, this keeps the cycle going. A rich family is also likely to have rich people that can mentor or at least be an example of success, this isn't going to be the same in poor families. Families in poverty are more likely to be broken, there may not even be a father figure in the home, this is a big factor that I've seen working first hand at a youth charity. What tends to happen is young boys look for role models that are usually negative, drug dealers, rappers etc. Basically there are many things that keep poverty cyclical. Now, you're looking at things from an overall perspective of what if all poor people invested the system would crash. Realistically it would take a long time for that to happen, but there is a lot of work to be done both from a systemic point of view and a personal point of view. The system has to be changed, things like education, raising the basic level ie free health care, giving as much opportunity as rich people, free Higher education etc. But also on the personal side there has to be a change in mentality as these are also responsible for the cyclical nature of poverty. A stupid example is playing the lottery and gambling is usually done mostly by those in poverty, this is a mindset of this is the only hope I have to get out is doing this, this could be changed and the money put into it put into something more positive or saved. Same goes with coca cola, smoking, alcohol etc. So for me the issue has many factors but they usually stem from those 2 roots, one you've highlighted and one I've highlighted. Someone will always be poor, but we can change poor from being can't afford medical care and not checking the pain in their appendix to something much more respectful. Many countries in Europe offer free health care and higher education. Portugal drug problem has gone down like crazy because they decriminalised drugs and started offering care to drug users. These things actually work systemically and when people aren't so worried about survival, they can move to more abundant mindsets and have better lives. @integral

Does China use a different to test to check deaths. Excess deaths have been high everywhere. But anyway on a more meta point, why are you fighting so hard to prove covid is nothing to worry about? At the very least I don't think you can be 100% sure of this given the current evidence and science. The repurcussions of being wrong on this can be severe as we've seen with trump in America, so why is this battle so important to you?

But roughly speaking the countries that had the quickest and strictest measures seem to have fared the best ie China, South Korea and other far east nations. The ones that took the least measures or didn't take it seriously initially have fared the worst ie Brazil, USA etc Sweden have a death rate around 10x that of their close neighbors, they are the outlier in that region. So looking at that I would say the measures had some effect

What countries have had hardly any restrictions? I think a lot of focus is on deaths, people are worried about long term effects of the vaccine yet are willing to risk the long term effects of covid, which from all accounts is quite bad

The Amish community have numerous outbreaks of things like measles and polio almost every year. Also doctor quoted from your article says -"I don't personally believe that we will reach herd immunity going forward without the use of vaccination." Covid has definitely affected these communities - https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/factcheck/2021/02/10/fact-check-false-claim-amish-dont-get-covid-19/4455551001/ The reason why its not worse is because they are relatively small communities, if the whole population did what they did it would be a disaster

You seem to miss my point, im agreeing with you, if you are necessarily focused on survival because of what you were born into and have not had relevant education on how to build and manage wealth then yes, it will be extremely difficult to get out of that cycle. But mindset is incredibly important if you were to get out. I think what youre reacting to is mindset, i dont mean delusion as in being unrealistically hopeful, what i mean is learning specific techniques to build wealth or success and not holding on to things that can keep you down, specifically an abundant mindset over a scarcity mindset as laid out by Maslow. Now this is very hard to get to if youre born into certain circumstances but its still the key of getting out. As @integral pointed out and if you read that article the main reason for the next generations not holding on to wealth is not being taught about money and how to hold on to it, in most cases the rich parent never even talked to their children about it which resulted in them losing it. So we're talking about a very human problem in which if you dont learn how to do something you wont be able to do it, regardless of rich or poor. Lets say everyone in poverty was given money, universal basic income, where they dont have to worry about survival anymore, i bet you a lot of people would still have problems if they dont invest in learning how to invest, save and build wealth. In the article they mention that it was an average of 19 days before someone who received inheritance bought a new car, thats what happens if you havent had the education around money. But yes i see your point that the system is not fair and it makes things very difficult, there should always be free healthcare for example. But to say that knowledge around finance is irrelevant in your success i just dont see that to be true. Heres come of the simple advice i mean in - https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/27/millionaire-shares-biggest-parenting-regret-not-teaching-kids-6-top-money-lessons.html

OK so just to clarify your overall points on this topic, im interpreting it as, we should be careful what we put in our bodies and research all ingredients to make sure they are not harmful both in the short term and long term, we should not trust studies or experts as they can have bias and studies can be falsified. As we can never be 100% sure of any scientific research we should just say we probably dont know and let nature do its thing. So Im going to lay out what some of your points look like in practice and you let me know if this is what you. Every food ingredient of every food consumed is checked, this will also include vitamin levels and nutrients if they are fruit and veg, since every food might have different levels or amount of ingredients, they will have to be checked every time. Water ph and minerals will have to be checked as well ph levels of every glass of water consumed, obviously other drinks would have to be checked as well. Any medicines or drugs would have to be checked. The air that you breath would have to be checked for oxygen and carbon dioxide levels or any other gases. All of these checks and research would have to be done by you personally, as stated the medical establishment cant be trusted. Are these things that you do regularly and if not does that imply some kind of trust in terms of what youre putting in your body?

@Gesundheit I agree with you, the odds are stacked against poor people and it isn't a fair game. However you skipped over my example, as I said if you put someone in those conditions who is rich and strip away everything they've accumulated, including contacts, I would estimate that they would still end up doing well, if not become rich again if there's enough time. The only thing they would have over a poor person in that situation is the skills they've acquired and the way they think, that is their only advantage. So the question is, can someone born in that situation gain those skills and mindsets to help them get out? The answer is they can and some do but it's extremely difficult to stumble upon a teacher that's going to impart what they know onto you or for you to take seriously, books and YouTube videos. Poverty breeds poverty, you can use the same example for healthy eating, why do most people in poverty have bad diets? it wouldn't be that much more expensive to eat healthy, let's say it was the same price, most poor people still wouldn't do it. So of course this is because this knowledge hasn't been put into them and it's the same with wealth accumulation. @integral This is the other side of it which shows its not even a poverty problem it's a human problem. Most wealthy families probably don't teach the children about how to hold onto wealth, they get complacent and probably think they're so rich they don't need to think about it. When that wealth gets passed down and split up, the heirs have no clue how to invest or how to protect their wealth and so lose it fairly quickly. 'A fool and their many are parted quickly' as the saying goes. Theres a big company in Europe, cant remember the name now, but instead of splitting the money with heirs they pick one heir who is basically groomed to run the business and everything goes to them. I assume the others get paid from their shares in the company. But this company has had their wealth for 100s of years using this method, meaning the compounding returns are phenomenal and they are some of the richest people on earth. All that to say mindset is very important both in accumulating and then protecting wealth.

Interesting discussion, I get where youre coming from and i think its almost a given that if youre from a third world country the odds are stacked even higher against you to the point of almost impossibility. But I think both points of this discussion can be true, mindset can be a huge factor in escaping poverty if there are some opportunities and also the system can be seemingly impossible to overcome. Heres why, if you put someone who is a self made millionaire, strip them of all wealth, contacts etc and put them in an average town, chances are they would be able to build wealth again from scratch. They would at least do better than those around them, this experiment has been done a few times in fact theres a discovery channel show documenting it. Theres also numerous examples of millionaires going completely bankrupt but recovering and building wealth again. So in this respect mindset is everything. However to get that mindset is very difficult and to get it while growing up poor in a bad neighbourhood with those around you dragging you down and no positive role models, is extremely difficult, in fact you are not even aware that your mindset is not working for you. In this example you are in survival mode or a scarcity mindset, to build wealth you need to be in an abundant mindset, which again is hard to do if you are just trying to survive. (Maslow talks about abundant vs scarcity mindset as basically the difference between success and failure). I agree that rich people do talk about mindset in an unrealistic way, like why dont poor people just think differently. Of course this is simplistic, that rich person couldve had great parents and a family unit or maybe they didnt but they liked to read and stumbled upon some great knowledge, either way something from the outside changed the way they thought and led to success, for some people this just doesnt happen.

No

Granted, some of their success can be attributed to looks, but i think the Botez sisters are a good example of making money from chess, without formally competing

@7thLetter Interesting topics raised, the ego is fascinating. What I've been thinking about recently is status, I think this is a big function of the ego, it basically wants us to be as high ranked amongst other humans as possible. When you're a kid in school it's always very important amongst the boys, who's the strongest, who's the fastest, who's the best at sport. As you get older it's who can attract the best girls, then who's got the best job or the most money, we even lead with 'what work do you do?', when we meet people. So it's interesting how we constantly place ourselves in this unconscious status ranking. This possibly could be from the tribal times where everyone was competing to be the head of the tribe, only now the tribe is billions of people. Its also possible for companies to co-opt this nature we have to sell products that seemingly enhance our status. A lot of it is also the higher status you are the more access to the other sex you get, I think that is ultimately the biggest driver.

You probably know but streaming your chess games is a great way to make money from chess. Or a YouTube channel teaching people how to play

Yes of course there are large northern African empires, my point is that to be seen as the richest human ever in history and from sub-saharan Africa, it can't have been that far behind Europe at one point

It does depend on perspective, what do you make of the western African King Mansa Musa, who is considered the wealthiest individual in human history only 800 or so years ago?

On a mechanical level its compound interest, as in if you have money and you put it in the right places it will grow. Moreover though I would say its mindset and the skills and knowledge you acquire through that mindset. For example if someone has made a million from scratch through business, if you take that million away and make them start again theyll most likely get to a million even quicker. Whereas someone whos poor may not believe they can do it and therefore wont think in that way, however they can be taught to think that way. Obviously there are situations where there is a significant lack of opportunities or generally just incredibly difficult circumstances, but for the most part you do get opportunities in the western world and there are safety nets so you dont fall to far.

Was gonna say similar, it goes to the lack of education in the western of anything past European history

I think the caveat is that being rich wont necessarily make you happier than if you werent rich. If you were unhappy when you were poor and then you become rich youd most likely still be unhappy, the flip of that could work as well in that, if you were happy when you were poor youd be happy when you were rich as well. It is of course possible that in the process of becoming rich you found meaning and purpose and this gave you happiness, you could also get disillusioned in the process as well. What i will say from personal experience of having literally no money to having some money is that there can be a certain freedom of not having much to worry about except bills and going to work, when you have money its very easy to get locked into financial traps ie mortgage, a business, protecting your money etc, in theory you actually have more problems the more money you get as the late great Biggie said. Personally I'd choose the challenges of having money as i personally like those challenges and feel that they offer growth and push you to learn and be adaptable, but i can fully understand why people wouldnt want to go down that path. I think maybe a better way to phrase it is making money can give you growth but nothing material can give you happiness.

There's plenty of books and materials to research this topic. Why not look at them and come back and educate us, it's not hidden information. Hint: Africans are dumb is prob not the answer

I think its a case of diminishing returns, the difference between someone earning £15k and £55k could be massive in terms of being comfortable, productive able to not worry about survival etc. But the difference between say earning £100k and £140k would probably not make that much difference, theres not much more you could do with the higher amount that you couldnt do with the lower. So once you kind of have enough or have enough coming in, it ceases to really give you that happiness boost that youre probably looking for, which is most likely what drives people to earn more because theyre looking for that golden amount that would satisfy them but it never comes. Also how humans work is by comparing themselves to those around them, so in a village in India maybe the richest person earns 10k a year and feels on top of the world because theyre richer than everyone else, but someone who earns 100k in London who lives an expensive street where theyre the lowest earner, probably feels really poor in comparison. So its all very relative and subjective. Bottom line in the western world, if you can get to about 70k, more money is not going to make you happier and if you can live without comparing yourself to others that will also lead to a much more content existence

Yeah this was pretty good actually, vet under rated

I love chess, play a couple games daily. I think it's a great metaphor for life as well, in that its good to have a plan but that plan has to be constantly adaptable because of the factors outside of your control, ie the other players moves. It's also great to get in the zone as you need a high level of concentration to play well. Near 1500 is the highest I've been on chess.com and 1700 on lichess. But its so hard to improve or even maintain those numbers and it gets to a point where if you're not gonna be a pro it's better to just enjoy the game, without worrying too much about the numbers.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying dont date, it is important to date and get that experience, but I'm saying don't date just to specifically find a wife that will help you with loneliness. Date to enjoy it, to learn about someone new, to have good and bad experiences, basically dont put any expectations on it, just have fun, life is not so serious. The more you date the more you realise what you like and don't like and then these will inform your decisions on whether you even want to go married and if you do to which type of person. It's great you're doing therapy and reading but it should also be balanced out with practical experience.

If your issue is loneliness then why not solve that before bringing someone else in? If you need someone there to avoid that feeling then are you even making a choice? You've dressed up the question as if it's you just deciding a good time to have a wife and kids but this doesn't seem to be the case. If you had said something like 'I want to share my love, knowledge and being with others in a familial situation', then yeah I'm with you but if your reason is literally I don't want to be alone so I'm going to find someone to have kids with and they can keep me company, then you really need to look into that. It also seems you're using enlightenment as some kind of spiritual bypass. Ken Wilbur talks about how important 'cleaning up' is, as in in cleaning up your mental bullshit, your fears, anxieties, insecurities etc. This should be your priority atm, this means therapy, it means a lot introspection etc etc, before you go down any of these roads you're talking about. If you don't and you make big decisions like starting a family, these will be things that will still affect you and most likely you'll pass onto your family

You could lose all your money yes and it may take a few tries, but usually this is the route for most entrepreneurs, they have a lot of failures before a big success. So this is part of the process and something you have to learn from. Getting the funding is also part of the game but depending on where you are there are usually options for this.