Consept

The incel mindset is a victim narrative and ideology that is used to absolve responsibility from the person for their inability to attract a female. Meaning they blame society and women specifically rather than looking at what they can do and the reason why someone might not be attracted to them. Where I might sympathise with them, is society does give you the message that sex and relationships are so easy to attain and so rewarding. The general message is that if you don't get a date, you're a loser or if you're not married with kids you're a loser, which can easily make you feel depressed if you don't get these things. Also, unless you have a healthy masculine role model who can teach you positive mindsets and practical ways to talk to women, you will be lost in how to actually improve. So much so it may seem impossible and when an ideology comes along that explains to you none of this is your fault and it's all because the distance between your eyes is too much or too little, you can see how attractive that might be. Essentially they feel hopeless and the ideology gives the message to embrace the hopelessness, further cementing it through different ideas about female nature etc, even if they don't have direct experience of challenging these ideas, they will still take them on. For example they will convince themselves that they're ugly even if objectively they're not, which for most of them is true. They'll also call any attempt to improve a cope. It's like having an ideology that there's nothing you can do about being fat, it might be true for some of them but the vast majority would be able to change it.

A big part of this process is making the girl feel safe and comfortable around you. This is heightened if you're cold approaching as you could literally be anyone, so she's looking for signs that something is off, she will not give you the benefit of the doubt, in fact even if something is not suspicious but she gets a bad feeling from your vibe she will cut you off. So asking for photos of inside the house and family would definitely be a red flag. If I just met you and you asked me for that I'd think you were weird regardless of safety.

Ive had some thoughts about this, so I want to break down this topic - Everyone is born with particular genetic advantages and disadvantages, if we use a rating system, imagine on a game, you would have a score out of 10 for each category. In this case we'll focus on categories that are important for a man to attract and keep a mate, so lets say the following (I know I will miss out some) -Looks -Ambition - Masculinity - Athleticism/Aesthetic Body -Emotional Intelligence -Intelligence - Social ability - Confidence -Sense of Humour -Style -work ethic/mindset Now we all have these attributes to different degrees, the genetic (although some of these can come through nurture) component is your potential level these can go up to. So for example you might have great genetics for intelligence, so naturally your a 6 without much effort, but if you work on it you could be a 9, however you may not work on it or may not get the necessary coaching you needed to get there and so you will stay at a 6. Whereas someone not as gifted as you, whos top level of potential is only a 7 from a starting point of 4, could overtake the genetically gifted 6, if they work really hard, essentially the old saying - 'hard work beats talent, when talent doesnt work hard'. So this brings us to looks, because they are the first thing people see they are a big factor in terms of attraction, so they can definitely get your foot in the door. However, if you are low on a lot of the other factors, it will still be very hard for you to attract someone. Lets say you were good looking but really low on masculinity or confidence, you would still have trouble, if not initially, definitely in a long terms relationship. Looks are also notable because there is only so much you can do with your looks, so the increase in score for that category is not that high. If you made sure that you had a good haircut, good skincare, teeth etc it still wouldnt boost your looks up that much, maybe a point at best. So the payoff is not great. However if you worked on say your body, you could go from skinny to a good, muscular size which would then boost that ranking up a few spots in terms of attraction. Same with confidence, if you worked on that it could make you a lot more attractive. The problem is, people tend to focus on looks because that is the first thing people see but its actually not even the most attractive. Something like ambition which could lead to status would actually be more attractive if you get there. Also there is more emphasis on looks because of social media and dating apps where looks are everything, they have always been important but the current landscape has supercharged them. So if youre not ranked high for looks it is very detrimental for you to be on apps. You may get away with it if youre able to properly demonstrate your higher ranking criteria, so if you can get across how ambitious you are or your sense of humour. What guys miss is that they only show off their looks which puts them in direct competition with guys higher ranked in looks. Regarding the ranking system as well, most people will get to a point where they are 'good enough' and stay there. Meaning if you get to say a 7 for athleticism, you will start seeing results for that, so your motivation to get to a 9 or 10 will most likely not be there. Usually if you are genetically strong in one area it takes away your motivation to get better in that area because you may see yourself as gifted. Whereas someone who is lower in athleticism will be more motivated to work harder. But there are very few that are both genetically gifted and incredibly hard working, these are real outliers who are at the top of their field, if you think football, someone like Ronaldo who was probably a 7 at football genetically got up to a 9 or 10 through hard work, most at a 7 would have a great career anyway and dont get to those levels Ronaldo set. So the best thing is to work out what your strength's and weaknesses are, you want to be at least average in all and then excel in as many as you have a genetic proclivity for. So for example i might double down on Athleticism and emotional intelligence, which then gives me a usp with potential partners that they wouldnt get elsewhere. But I also need to work hard to be more social and confident, because without those I wouldnt have a chance to show my strong points.

I think the whole post had some great insights so thanks for sharing! I agree as well, i think as men we often judge ourselves on how many and how attractive the women we get are, not taking into account our own attraction to them as an individual. There will be certain women we're with where it just feels smooth and easy and these always lead to more satisfying relationships, short or long term. So i think as you say, its really about working out what you want and what suits you.

Is this Leo's blackpill arc?

@rnd So you're equating Wikipedia to Putins control of Russia? If youre claiming that what I posted is not true or that its framed in the best possible light because its on Wikipedia, then I would ask what media source would you say reports the facts independently in your opinion? The story I linked was what happened as reported everywhere apart from in Russia most likely. Next there are numerous articles on Wikipedia that do show the west in a negative light, how do you explain those? Here are some examples - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MKUltra?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_and_weapons_of_mass_destruction?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_War?wprov=sfla1 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abu_Ghraib_torture_and_prisoner_abuse?wprov=sfla1

Not sure I'd peg him at a 7 but of course it's subjective, his height probably helps as well. But I agree his charisma and intelligence in his situation, is the main factor, if he didn't have that and was just homeless he would not get any girls. Unfortunate he had his addiction problems, there are obviously some deeper issues at play.

So what's your definition, you did t answer? This is the definition of definition btw - a statement of the exact meaning of a word, especially in a dictionary.

Oh you're talking about spiral eyes. But really it's just presence, it does definitely work

I dont know man, genetics obviously play their part but I think most guys are not maximising their potential, by definition most guys looks are average but also most guys dont actively put in work in terms of fitness, social and internal so logically you would be ahead of most guys if you put in some work. Even just being good looking, chances are girls are not gonna approach you so you still need to do work and you definitely need work to sustain a relationship. To be the best you need genetics + hard work, but you can still do really well with average genetics + hard work, most likely youll do better than genetics - hard work. Personal anecdote, for research purposes I got rated by a well known black pill youtuber, he put me at a 4, which although was a slight hit to my ego, doesnt really match with my reality and the girls that I attract both irl and on dating apps. Not saying its a non-stop line of women but its certainly better than they would lead a 'below average' man to believe he could attract.

The fuck are you talking about? All of that is completely out of your control and furthermore do you not think the world was much harder for previous generations? Im not saying we dont have our issues but if you look at the average persons resources today they could rival a kings from a few hundred years ago. Also you most likely wont have to go to war and die so thats a big plus. Point being there are always going to be external hardships, no world youre born into is going to be perfect for you and you shouldnt even want that as it wouldnt give you opportunity to grow. Trust me, just from your negative attitude, if you didnt have that i guarantee you more women will find you attractive. Im not saying fake being positive, im saying sort out your internal issues and feel like you actually have real value to give to the world and people around you.

We could go back forever on definitions but dictionary definition is 'ability to comprehend something'. So for example if we ask 'what is a dog?' you know that a dog is a mammal and have a general understanding of what that is, so if i say dog we can communicate as you understand what im referring to. With ideas its slightly different because theres not a physical representation of what i mean and it relies on your understanding of the idea to have a conversation around that idea. So for example, if i understand the idea of hypocrisy to mean behaviour that contradicts what one believes or feels (dictionary definition) and you believe it to mean 'behaviour that contradicts what one believes or feels UNLESS I feel its justified', then its basically impossible to have a conversation around it as we are talking about two different things.

I agree with this a lot and I love David Tians work on this. A lot of people are fucked up, usually by parents, society etc they dont feel they are enough and so are trying their best to fulfil their idea of success. So, having a partner or being attractive seems, logically like something that would make you feel better about yourself and will solve all your problems. But the the reality is if you have these issues, you just take them into a relationship or pass them down to your kids or whatever, they dont go anywhere. I was definitely better looking when i was younger, I got a lot of interest from women, but I had no sense of self, I was anxious, i didnt feel good or secure within myself. Now i actually feel like im more attractive, maybe not looks wise but just overall. Before I had potential but now its the real deal.

It isnt easy to poison people, there have been attempted poisonings 'allegedly' by Putin in the UK of Russian double agents - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poisoning_of_Sergei_and_Yulia_Skripal#:~:text=The poisoning of Sergei and,England on 4 March 2018. These caused massive international incidents, even though they didnt die and Putin denied them. These are just regular agents as well, presumably with no security, so imagine trying to get to a head of state, how hard it would be in the first instance and then the global fallout especially if unsuccessful. It wouldnt even be worth it

Definitions dont work like that, like a definition isnt an opinion, your understanding of it might be different but i guess thats what the conversation is for we're trying to come to an understanding. What would you say your definition of hypocritical behaviour is?

I think it always happens through history where people's views are constantly being challenged within their lifetime. Previous to this white people would've seen black people as less than (some still do) and would have their views tested when black people started gaining more rights. It's all the growing pains of the ever integrating oneness

Just came across this and almost cant believe it but apparently it exists, its essentially incels males changing to female because they believe women have life on easy mode. When I think about it, it kinda makes sense if you follow the incel logic to its natural conclusion, as in if you believe youre a male 2 or whatever and have no hope because your eyes are slightly too far apart or something, then why not change into a woman who have lots of great benefits just on merit of being a woman. What it shows though is how dangerous and deluded the incel mindset is

@k-ahmadzadeh This is where black pill or believing looks are everything messes you up. Judging by your profile picture, if that is you, you are decent looking, you're by no means ugly, like I would never look at you and think 'wow what an ugly looking dude'. I think when you base everything on looks it gives an excuse not to work on other stuff that will actually get you results. A big one that people don't mention is sorting yourself out mentally, going to therapy etc. As well as the physical, getting into shape. By believing the looks thing it confines you to this doomed mindset where you can't get out, but it's nonsense. Now I'm not saying looks aren't a factor but the people that complain about it are over emphasising it and when you look into it, they are doing nothing to be more attractive. Heres an analogy, there are football (soccer) players who are very talented naturally, from when they were 6 years old they everyone believed they would make it, then there are players who weren't as talented but worked ridiculously hard to make it. If the talented players don't work hard a lot of the times they get no where. Because everything is handed to them they don't develop the habits of a hard worker and its very common for the hard worker to do better than the talented player. Of course you need a little bit of talent (looks) to work with but in many fields, success comes down to how much you work at it.

This probably goes against the usual type of post in this section. But recently came out of long relationship and im dipping my foot into the dating market, some options are popping up, still in the talking stages but im not sure how i feel about talking to multiple women at the same time. Ultimately i want to be as authentic to myself as possible and hiding stuff probably isnt the best way to go (not that im doing that). Im also not interested in banging anyone who will be up for it, ironically i think this unattachment to outcome probably makes me more attractive. This isnt to say i dont want to have sex, but its just not the be all and all. So essentially the question I have is what do you guys think of dating multiple people at the same time, potentially having sex with some of them

Online dating is obviously going to be looks based, but I think sometimes people just write it off as I'm not that good looking so it won't work for me. A lot of guys profiles are terrible, pictures make them look worse than they are and are mot exciting, no personality in the profile. Obviously this will be a big factor, if you are a 5 and your profile is a 10/10 you most likely could outperform a 7 with a shitty profile.

Looks are important but for a man there's plenty you can do to enhance that, wardrobe, grooming, gym etc. What I would say is the number 1 factor is true confidence, meaning you know you're cool, you fully believe that anyone would enjoy being around you and that any girl could be attracted to you. There are many factors but I think if you had confidence at a 10 it would be more impactful than any other factor. This guys homeless but super confident, can't tell if he's good looking or not though

If you see the value in it then go for it

You're gonna spend 5k on this?

Yeah I definitely agree, I think thats whats really meant in the Bible about everyone being sinners and not perfect. It is really hard work to keep aware of all your own hypocrisy but a worthwhile thing to do.

Yes I agree, im not even throwing judgement at those that are unconsciously hypocrites. I think hypocrite as a word is one of those words like racist, where its reduced to just an insult, those that say it are saying it as an insult and those that are receiving are taking it as an insult. I try to avoid saying someone is an out and out hypocrite or racist I prefer to say hypocritical behaviour or racist behaviour, with the exception of if they themselves label themselves as such. As you brought up Jesus he says love the sinner hate the sin which i think is a beautiful way of being or at least striving toward. I think you dont like the hypocrite label which is why youd prefer being labelled as inconsistent. Which is fine you can do that and i understand it makes you feel more justified to do as such but i think, esp on a forum like this where we're all trying to improve, it would be more beneficial to actively look at where you are being hypocritical rather than trying to justify it. You have to see that no one who is obviously a hypocrite will label themselves as a hypocrite, thats literally the whole point. Hitler would not say 'oh yeah im a hypocrite because i hated the way German people will treated and now im treating Jewish people even worse', he would say exactly what youre saying which is 'yeah persecution is wrong but these are justified reasons'. Religious people who condemn others for sinning but then sin themselves, would not call themselves hypocrites they justify their behaviour whilst condemning others. But i understand its hard to take on this perspective because it makes you seem 'wrong' because of your dislike of 'hot women', as in you cant sustain that dislike and not be hypocritical, so your options are either realise you shouldnt dislike your chosen group of people or change your perception of your prejudice so that its not as bad as other prejudices and its justified. I would say to be a hypocrite, youd have to be preaching one thing and practising another. So like the preacher says how much he hates gay people but then gets caught in a hotel room with a male prostitute. So it implies a moral load just because essentially its someone being deceitful knowingly. Inconsistent is just something thats not consistent, that can be im inconsistent when it comes to the going to the gym, theres not necessarily anything moral, but if i was judging people for not going to the gym consistently whilst myself not doing it, then that would be hypocritical.