Sugarcoat

Hmm. I’d say yes but then on the other hand an emotion to me sounds like something that comes lika a “wave” . But i think happiness could be more static. But then an emotion could also be quite static. But yea i think id consider it an emotion. I agree I am rarely in a perfectly neutral state. But I can feel I can be close to neutrality. But there’s almost always a at least subtle liking/disliking present. I’m with you there For me personally dissolving neurotic tendencies has led me closer to a kind of equanimity rather than happiness. For now I can’t confirm it in my experience, but maybe there’s an even additional like transcendence of self that would open up the possibility for that primordial happiness. But I have a little bit of a materialist view that our happiness is partly limited to our wiring, but maybe if you become enlightened it’s outside the realm of human psychology so it works differently.

Yea we can recognize how this isn’t “it”. How we are in something limited. Yea openness could mean how open you are to sensations in the body vs being dissociated from it. How your attention is dispersed vs focused. Etc. It’s recognizing you don’t really know what you’re looking at… One thing I can say is that I’m a little perplexed about the difference between happiness and neutrality. To me it seems the default is a kind of neutrality, but you seem to suggest it’s happiness. To me happiness sounds more intense, like something extra added to neutrality . The absence of suffering to me is neutrality not happiness. And it can be hard to produce happiness, it’s not entirely effortless I feel

If I’m getting you, i guess your overall point is that when dealing with direct consciousness, the absolute, it’s distinct from any other relative endeavor in which actions can be defined. So it’s like we can’t say exactly what to do action wise as we can when talking about relative pursuits. So it’s a bit difficult in that sense, but at the same time since direct realization of the absolute doesn’t seem to require anything in particular, we could also say it’s more accessible than anything else. Yet very few people realize it, so it’s a bit of a paradox. Okay, I wasn’t familiar with that definition of the word contemplation because I genuinely thought it was just using the mind, and hopefully it could lead to a breakthrough. But as you say, qualities like openness and ability for silence are crucial, which could be said to be qualities of the mind, like an openness would mean a less rigid mind. So it’s a combination of using the mind in the right way and then knowing when to let go of the mind. I’d say I’m with you there. The default state is not suffering, suffering is an extra added Yes. Then realistically it’s difficult to reach that kind of happiness. It’s not so hard to be happy when you’re in first world country, have shelter, food, security, friends. But if you’re in the midst of war, food is scarce etc then it’s much harder. You probably know this already tho. Just pointing it out. Not saying it’s impossible tho to reach that independent happiness, but it’s very difficult

Reasonable point

If we go directly for truth it entails a certain action, unless you say it’s “doing nothing”. But anything else would mean something, like for example “focus your attention on something actual in your experience”. And anytime we do something we are not doing something else, so when you focus on experience you may disengage from the mind which you were precisely engaged in. So I’m just saying that to say “go for truth directly” usually implies something . I thought contemplation was when you use your mind to think deeply about something. It could correlate to “direct insight”, consciousness etc, but those are still beyond the mind but the mind might be stepping stone to them I remember from previous threads you’ve said we are the ones doing/creating our suffering. Do you mean here that there’s no real self in non dual sense so that’s why you say “you aren’t doing it”?

We could be aware of how we are disconnected from our true nature. So it would be helpful to identify what it is that’s veiling and try to undo that. So the attempt to grasp our nature has a certain “direction” to it which is to try to step away from the mind, as we usually use our mind to grasp things and it doesn’t lead anywhere except keep us inside our current state. We could use our mind to contemplate but we will probably find as you say that it won’t really lead to anything actually true I’d agree. Happiness requires undoing of suffering, but not much extra aside from that.

Sense of self definitely affects political stance. But everyone isn’t super self centered so it’s not something that explains everything Maybe you are right. But well being and survival is closely linked. Neuroticism causes suffering but it can be seen that it has the ultimate goal of leading to more well being, someone might feel like obsessing over something “helps” them keep control of it: make it survive There’s different branches of spirituality that are more or less mainstream

👍🏻 I think as we develop psychologically our political stance evolves. So it translates to the other. Psychological development should be the main focus I think, as it’s more fundamental

I’d try a cigarette but I’d never start smoking it regularly

Is it different from vaping? I’ve only vaped and last time I tried cig was so long ago I don’t remember

Karma word is thrown around a lot don’t really know what it means People wanna take the path that’s gonna lead to the best well being. It could include gaining power if that’s satisfying to the self image, or just nice self image in general. But many aren’t super self centered either so they crave things like relationships etc, it’s not all self image. But bottom line it’s to increase well being and lessen suffering. And some find spirituality the best path for that Don’t know what negative affects means Some subjects might be more mainstream because they appeal to the masses, suggesting that people have something similar in neurology, their minds, genetics, so something less mainstream, being drawn to it could suggest you’re different than most

It seems we have capacity to see things how they are, but then the normal mind reappears again and we’re back to normal

I definitely think a normal person could live on a day to day basis with a baseline of contentment that fluctuates a bit based on stressors like work, money, relationship problems etc. It can be hard to tell if someone is doing well if you don’t know them personally, because people have a social fasade and filter where they don’t openly share their problems, and their problems might not show through their behavior. People have social codes ingrained in their psyche, and for many, talking and seeming fine comes naturally and automatically: they could still be stressed on the inside. For example, when I’m low I tend to become more quiet. Then I might mistakenly assume that people who talk a lot must be doing fine, because I talk more when I’m doing fine. But for someone who is naturally more social and verbal, they might deal with issues by for example ventilating, or socialization might be a distraction for them, so them being social doesn’t reflect their inner state.

I heard from some expert that creatine is one of the only extensively studied supplements that has significant support scientifically. So it seems good

What would it even mean to “go for an experience of real being now”. Like staring at a wall until you have the raw experience of the wall? (If you’re not focusing on the self) Maybe “the self is seen for what it is” is synonymous with it being “stripped” of its realness, so yea as you say those might not be mutually exclusive . I think similarly . But for now it still seems some things can be done to increase the chance, because it’s not usual that average people who don’t pursue awakening just suddenly have a glimpse, hmmm

If you’re gonna experience hell it’s gonna be from a particular form. If you are in the form of human experiencing hell you’re gonna be limited by your body’s biology. When you are tortured, you will either die from injury, or maybe pass out eventually from pain, or even die. Or extremely rarely, your ego might just surrender in the pain. So either way it’s limited, so eternal hell might not be possible because any form is limited. I mean, it’s not really a comfort still because how does it help by saying “you might be tortured for a long time but I promise it’s not eternity!”

There’s a hive mind “matrix” aspect to almost every niche. But then it’s a question of why does one person fall into one paradigm and not another. Someone more prone to questioning society (sign of openness) might be more likely to fall into something a bit unconventional like spirituality (some branches are less mainstream)

Yes it can be hard to completely distinguish the mind. And you say what remains is open presence. I’d say before the self has been stripped, there’s also the sense of the presence of self- may or may not be the mind Well I guess some people correlate caring deeply about something to being stressed about it. They feel their stress is part of their care and helps them stay focused on it and thus control it better Yea I think ultimately enlightenment doesn’t discriminate, anyone could, but I also think the chance of it happening spontaneously is very low so if it’s the goal I think it’s wise to pursue it but maybe down the road it leads you to realize you never had to pursue it, but such realization might just come after the fact of pursuing it

This human experience is apparent limitation playing itself out Then it’s a matter how to break limitations… to see directly as you say I was just talking suffering generally how it works for people, but no it’s not necessary generally and might even make us less effective, but now that I think about it some people genuinely feel they work better under stress I find there’s many layers to this experience, and I agree about removing them to see clearly. One can get a long way on the path but never reach the end… so for me the enlightenment still remains an unknown Yea thoughts can go beyond the conventional sense of mental shatter and intertwine with our sense of raw reality I am familiar with the video about actuality. I used to stare at my hand. It’s also something very accessible

One of my impressions of people here is that many score high on the openness personality trait. Also conscientiousness. ADHD to me sounds like someone impulsive, more focused on the immediate moment than long term, and who would have trouble focusing for long. Like doing meditation or watching long Leo videos. They might be more pragmatic. Although I’ve heard adhd people can be deep thinkers , so it’s non impossible to draw correlation there. It also seems some people are more self centered, so they’re interested in developing a nice self image, which could be linked to the tendency of personal development. There’s also like a streak of autism about it, to go about life in this calculated way forming a conceptual framework, instead of being more “natural” like some people are, especially in regards to socializing can the pickup approach come off as little autistic, where you make mental models of socialization instead of just naturally socializing. From an outside perspective self development can be seen as little geeky and try hard, like you’re full of yourself. So it might be more likely practiced by people who are less focused on relationships than ideas.

By direct consciousness you might imply that it transcends limitation, which contrasts to our current consciousness which is aware of limitation Effortlessness kinda implies an ease, so yea suffering feels more like a struggle so it can’t really be effortless by definition. I agree we deeply engage our mind. We engage in suffering, some feel suffering is necessary too, like being stressed feels it can help you have things under control. The human happiness id say is known in the same way the human suffering is known. But a transcendent happiness is unknown for most It can help to recognize when something is a concept, so if it weighs us down (like a negative belief) we have possibility of letting it go , instead of confusing it with rest of reality

It’s recognized for what it is

Scientists try to figure out reality, and they don’t want spiritual people to do it because it would loose them their job 😅 Jk

Yea maybe it allows us to access reality directly so no concept can feel like it grasps it

Late reply but yes I agree for most willpower alone won’t work because it’s like a limited resource, a muscle that gets tired. You need to also know yourself well and your triggers, to identify tricks to cope etc