Sugarcoat

@Schizophonia I saw that you had replied and before I looked I thought you were gonna say something about low libido or , androgens or something

No I was the one who tore it down ofc

They just tore down the only Mormon church that exists in the entire Sweden which happens to be right in my suburb. You should see that as a sign… (jk they gonna rebuild it)

Your tongue should rest on your roof in the mouth naturally already so if that’s the case then no need to force it unless idk maybe it’s possible to make a change if you press it even harder and hold it for years but why would u

@Schizophonia

🤫🤫

Omg 😂😂

if I try to remember how it is when I dream id say Im not aware of myself as the dreamer, there's only the dream but I can dream of myself from different pov . So my sense of self being in the dream although yea it's all one substance. you mean nothing exists outside perception? i don't see how this leaves no room for a sense of self behind those eyes. but that is fine mm that is how I interpret it too. not a bunch of stages. makes sense i imagine myself all the time equally as much as before, but when the self is attached to your mind, this mental self, it seems to be able to keep things blocked or something idk He has these non dual meetings. I looked yesterday and happened to hear him say "first appears a contraction then the self arises out of that" . What exactly that contraction would be idk , im guessing it's not physical in the sense of physical sensation you talk about. He is also the type that says it's a completely hopeless situation for the self there's nothing one can do to get rid of that illusion. Not that I know but from all ive heard which isn't that much the way he describes makes most sense to me... yea it might be just imagined I don't know but its hard to pin point or see that, doesn't seem like it thats great

i see

Hell happens on this earth already look what happens to people both believers and non believers.

@Salvijus yea but still infinite difference between even the thinnest self and no self. I was wondering where you base that on because I know plenty examples of enlightenment people for example just any non dual talker on YouTube they say it’s all normal after so

@Salvijus have you been without a self to notice this?

say it when it happens

obv not true since we have things like torture happen

Yea there’s nuances take care✌🏻

I mean the brain as the basis for the most basic things how inward outward you are, some things, something like that

Im still saying the brain is the basis for this inward/outwardness …

Personality is a mix still of brain and conditioning isn’t it im not here to argue btw just writing for no reason really

But you being affected by societies conditioning so deeply is becuase you have a brain that is more or less focused outward so focused on the world but it’s the norm so it’s not really recognized

Mm I see. You can have your attention on certain specific things this and that. I usually think in terms of the most basic level as a kind of foundation. So basically how outward vs inward you are which I see mostly as a consequence of how your brain is but it could perhaps change for some people idk for me it has been the same all my life . So the more inward the more attention on yourself and inside world and the more outward the more on outside world and then the other stuff like your desires etc reflect this basic level. But ofc there’s more nuances to this but

But I’m not “holding” my attention there, as in I’m doing it actively. It just rests there naturally by default , why? Because I’m built that way. Then all my interest and value and desire and all come from this. It’s not like “I have desire for this so let me hold my attention here” the attention rested there prior since childhood as far back as I can remember maybe it’s different for you tho can’t know. More nuances for you maybe

I know I didn’t answer very much pertaining to what u wrote specifically. In regards to your first question : no, that is hard 2nd and 3rd: you wouldn’t. For the things you do have desire for, you don’t need to “hold” the attention there actively it just effortlessly goes there, isn’t it? Why? Did you chose how it naturally goes? Isn’t it just how you function naturally that dictates that aka your neurology? it is my experience. In the way that I have a certain way my attention rests naturally, because my brain just is that way .Then I can chose where to direct it to other places by effort but where it rests naturally is where all my desires are related to

I just say your neurology is the basis for how your attention is by default without you trying and desires just reflect this In my experience

@Salvijus isn’t it the opposite attention first then desire comes second so your brain the way it’s built determines how your attention is divided , so if you are more outward , you have that kind of brain, meaning more of your attention out on the world then your desires will reflect it you’ll be the type of person who is more dependent on for example others for your happiness then the opposite if your brain is built in more inward way meaning more attention on yourself then you’ll have more desires connected to that so you’ll be more likely to want your ideal self for example so it’s like we have a default in how our attention is divided we can’t control

I would say yes. Dreams contain me. Can be first pov or third no they seem enmeshed because attention is not a thing its just the sense of me being separate that makes it a useful concept maybe there is not. But it just seems like it that's cool how that happened to you. I believe it might affect how different people without a self talk about the self. If for someone it just drops randomly then maybe their understanding of the self will be whatever they had prior to that. But if you go through a long process off shedding all the layers you understand it differently in my experience the reason for all my shedding of layers boils down to attention on the self, then self-inquiry has came naturally but not extensively, but no I haven't had that singular drop you seem to refer to. Although I did completely detach from my mental self. And maybe there are different levels of "no self" too. For me the most extreme seems like someone like Jim Newman for example. I asked one enlightened person online about physical pain, they said "it's a sensation like any other, there is no rejection of it, desire for it to go away, no discrimination against it". That's another example of the deepest level, its to me is like walking dead. So wherever you are maybe is like a level above. Then where I am would be one level above that. Then the average human one level above me, I don't know tho. Its hard for me to pinpoint sometimes "am I like this person but it just expresses itself differently because of brain difference" I feel like this is possible as long as there is any sense of a you as the body. when I had a fixed mental self, for example I remember I had this mental identity of myself as being socially awkward, then this could happen in regards to that. altough there was a period after my dissolution of the mental self which I could still experience this fear, like there was residues of those old identity patterns. but the way it expressed itself was radically different, it was like directly in the body, and was quickly dissolved because no fixed mind was blocking it kind of. basically what you describe sounds to me more typical to how it is when one has a fixed mental self. Now when I have dissolved that fixed mental self, but I still sense myself as this body, above scenarios can happen to me still in regards to physical pain.. which it does... can't see how it wouldn't unless you reach the walking dead level like Jim Newman and such maybe it would express itself differently for you tho, hard for me to even define "your" level. I mean seeming to be here as located in my skull i find what Jim Newman says about how the self is this physical tension in the body that creates the sense of im here and then the belief of that. I think it's quite accurate description where im at. It seems to me different than saying it's imagined. what you say as this imagined entity sounds to me like the fixed mental self which I have dissolved fully already. I dont know for sure tho if youre referring to that. I can imagine myself in my mind still tho. I wouldn't say the sense of me located in my skull is imagined in that same regard. If it were, couldn't I see how its imagined in the same way I could see my mental self and dissolve that, hmm.... okay i understand what youre saying here and I would agree the only thing I would question is that last part where you say once you stop imagining, yourself , the self stops appearing. idk about that one. I know ive said this before. I still feel like it's more that I experience myself as in the body, and believe im here, and this is what makes it possible for me to imagine myself and believe it represents me. . So me being in the body the basis, not the thought. I could investigate this more ofc but by now I feel its more accurate to my experience . did you come to that conclusion by not thinking for long enough then you "dropped" permanently? or