Bobby_2021

Nah the west wasted resources and sacrificed actual development bullying each others to death instead of cooperating with each other. They just got very good at bullying. I can give you that. That's still not development though. The only reason it payed off in the end is because west found **new lands** to bully and siphon their wealth. They constantly have to find some others to bully, else the system will crumble. Like a textbook ponzi scheme. Actual developed states are not interested in criminal domination like the west. They are interested in well being of their own people. We are on the same page here in terms of the facts. It's a matter of how you choose to frame it.

Then go the extra step and acknowledge that west is superior because they were bullies. Not because of their "development". It's a game of domination. Be honest.

Who is doing the blaming? The bully is blaming the D student for getting beaten up due to his last decade performance. Bully is the one doing victim blaming here.

They were easy targets because they couldn't fend off the aggressive military of the US. Development is not the main criteria here. Domination is. Developed countries would rather spend money on healthcare and education rather than military industrial complex. The US military domination strategy caught them off guard and humanity as a species is back with bullshit wars because of it.

I am not blaming anyone. I am merely noticing the underlying societal hivemind reacting to the external dynamism. Wherever you are living, imagine accomodating an extra 100k people or 500k people. It will destabilize the social order of that society. Uk is literally rioting in the streets because a bunch of immigrants came to live there and the local population is resisting it. Middleast is forever destabilized because of the contrived influx of jews post world war. No society can accomodate extra millions people like this without damaging the societal fabric. Because every society is going to carry it's own baggage, trauma and developmental issues along with it. And the local population will resist it because it's an infringement on their sovereignty. Perhaps I wouldn't have to "blame" the west if the west didn't poke it's nose in the middleast.

There are serious developmental issues with the muslims in middleast. 70% of the issues were caused by western involvement and 30% due to the inherent underdevelopment of the people due to other factors. The more intense the western intervention, the stronger the resistance. They keep feeding this loop over and over again, expecting different results.

Consequences may be slow, but they definitely catch up. Settler colonialism is also self defeating. Let's see if the state of Israel would exist.

Indians did plenty of what you can easily call as terrorism against the colonial British government that did far more damage to them way more than Gandhi ever could. You can do terrorism and still have the moral high ground under appropriate contexts. If you want independence without a military, what else are you supposed to do? Israel has lost the moral high ground. Oct 7 was a genius move by hamas that exposed Israel and even the US and genocidal states. And even IDF openly admitted to not being able to defeat Hamas because it's an idea. And it's true. It's the idea of resistance. People relate to it. Especially the majority of the world who were victims of colonialism. Morality always sides with weak people.

Yes of course. Palestinian military would "want" to take revenge. Israel would want to take more land. There will be significant tensions brewing between them. The status quo can be maintained. Even the radicals know the consequences of actually taking action on their revenge. There is a serious risk of radicals hijackin the new military, in the worst case scenario. But you already have an ever more terrible scenario now. Radicals terrorists are the military wing of Palestine. When you undermine or overthrow or block a legitimate government, you are going to get jihadists in power. Jihadists will easily overthrow moderates like they did with PLO. I am not saying you will get Thomas Jefferson in power by having a legitimate govt for Palestine. But there is a chance that the government will be less radical than the current hamas run Palestine.

@Leo Gura The point of having a military for Palestine is to make Israel face the consequences of its oppressive actions. If you don't give them a legitimate military, then hamas terrorists would act as their defacto military. A legitimate military for the sovereign state of Palestine could help keep even hamas in check. But instead they played 3d chess and directly funded hamas. A state not having autonomy over itself will always regress back to lower stages. Hamas will not be the military wing for the sovereign state of Palestine.

Israel is overcompensating for the collective trauma of the Jewish psyche from the persecution they had to endure over the years. Now that has given rise to Islamic resistance militias which causes even more suffering and trauma for a whole new generation of people. Even Hitler was deeply hurt in his childhood which led to overcompensate with his genocidal crusades. We are still suffering from the actions of Hitler, to be frank. Someone in the whole cycle has to take responsibility to end this with themselves instead of passing on the trauma to some other people.

@BlueOak The question is not whether those bombings and invasions were justified. The question is if NATO is a defensive alliance or not. The point is that the reasons you gave were not defensive in nature. I can give more cases, but that's not necessary. Invasion of Iraq showed that US can prop up any bullshit reason to bomb and invade any country, so it's all pretty meaningless. Just because the name of NATO was not formally used doesn't mean people don't get what's going on. If you want to keep it strictly technical, then the NATO operation in Yugoslavia is enough.

@trenton You have a great sense of empathy and compassion. Appreciate you going extraordinary lengths to understand the plight of human suffering. Most people wouldn't get this so don't bother too much about the negative comments. This post has been pretty enlightening imo.

I agree. Progressives have to let go of this idea to trigger the conservatives. That's only giving them more food for reacting to, and they will take it up. It will make even the moderates to lean to the conservative side.

Do you think Putin will forget the Iraq war because NATO wasn't involved, technically speaking? You can argue with me in forum about these small points that is too tiny to be considered in the larger geopolitical realm, which is what the Russian government considers. They know how NATO behaves and who is controlling it. At the end of the day, NATO is an offensive alliance, because their kingpin is an offensive belligerent.

Sure. It invaded Afganistan. It bombed Yugoslavia. Now will you accept that NATO is an offensive alliance?

Even if Palestine is a state, hamas would simply be a political party, like Zionists maybe. Not shocked anymore!

Ukraine's democratically elected government was overthrown in 2014. So your case for an independent Ukraine is dubious. Lmao... Was the invasion of Iraq a defensive move? NATO is an offensive alliance. Correct for these facts and rethink your positions. The actual reason for the special military operation is far deeper and complicated that most people couldn't grasp it on a whim. Western intervention is to blame in short.

All the Militias are resistence movements. They are reactionaries. They react to Israeli occupation. A reactionary doesn't have the competence or real intentions to actually commit a genocide. A genocide needs remarkable planning and execution to pull off. Few can do it even if they actually wanted to. Hitler deviced a remarkable machine for carrying out a genocide. A lot of thought and planning went into it. Same with Gaza. A reactionary mind wouldn't be able to pull this off. These militias hate Israel and with all this hate, they wouldn't be able to pull off an actual genocide. Wars? Yeah. Terrorism? Yeah. Bombings? Yeah. Genocide? No. These resistance movements don't go out of their way to target civilians, which they absolutely CAN. These are not merely stage red cavemen. Their capacity to inflict damage is significant.

Hamas is a non state actor and you are comparing it with the state of Israel. It's not an apples to apples comparison, unless it's equivalent state counterpart is involved.

Since they could aid Hamas with means for an Israeli genocide.

It is a case of projection. Iran is not nearly as unhinged as Israel in how they conduct themselves. Even Russia warned Iran to have restraint in how they retaliate to Israel. Just look at Iran's retaliation in April. The mullahs showed spectacular restraint when they absolutely could have chosen not to. You guys forget all that and cast them as barbarians so that your barbaric acts would get some legitimacy and validation. Everyone except Israel & her allies conducts themselves with restraint. Do you really think that Iran does not have the manpower or missiles to take out Israel. Lol. They held themselves back. Give some credit where it's due.

Just so that you know, the IDF has also killed Israeli civilians on Oct 7. It is called the Hannibal directive. Oct 7 is shrouded in mystery. Also, a lot of the people killed on oct 7 were IDF soldiers. Let's not jump to conclusions based on what Israel reports. Wait till more authoritative reports arrive. The deeper point is that noone's words match with their actions. Which is why we look at their actions.

When Russia was making steady advances every other day, no western media outlets reported on that. They would report meaningless attacks on somewhere in Russia that is inconsequential to the larger war. Now they have enough content for a couple of weeks it seems. Everyone will forget this as soon as Russia would take control of the situation. Make no mistake, this caught Russia off-guard. This is one of the few times when Ukrainian commanders outsmarted the Russians. The Ukrainian commanders were making blunders after blunders, sacrificing their elite forces for reckless PR stunts like they did in Krynky. They would not be able to hold on to it. They are not able to hold positions deep in Ukraine, and you think Ukraine forces could hold ground in Russia. Not going to happen. They are going to be exterminated, and we will all move to the next news cycle leaving this in the dust. Your dilemma as a Ukrainian commander is this: You have to lead an army that you know will fail and lose. You have to do it anyway since the joker president told you so. So, they keep sacrificing precious Ukrainian (and Russian) lives instead of sitting for talks that could actually end the war.

"Hamas would genocide Israelis if they could" was the hypothetical scenario you were putting forth. I was responding to that with more hypotheticals. Intend is same as thought. You can think and have intend as much as you want, as long as you do not ACT on them. Israel will talk LGBTQAI+ & veganism and then go on to do a genocide. No one takes these talks seriously. It's a rhetoric. Their actions are also not the same. Perhaps actions are more consequential than words or will.