RMQualtrough

There isn't a creator. It's a cope paradigm. Literally, it is literally cope, for when an ego tries to hold on for dear life in the face of oblivion. The ego even perverts reality and fools itself that it is the one doing things, that there is a self, to cope with having zero power and being on the brink of oblivion... When it goes away, there is no you. You're walking around deceased. As dead as a corpse. No copes about memory loss or reincarnations or antennas/receivers or eternal recurrence, or bargaining about how you came into existence once surely you can again, or playing odds with infinity. None of those copes are necessary. Those copes are the ego's final Mexican standoff.

LOL.

This is unrelated. Obviously the image of me is qualitative. There isn't an actual me present anywhere in the image of me. Or in my hands or feet. Self is invented. There isn't one to be found anywhere, it's made up over years and then you become afraid to lose it. Even though it's not real and never observed. Thinking there is, is because "consciousness" and "God" are both completely terrible pointers, which leads to this. Or like "me as infinite consciousness" "me as a person", bubbles, all that. It's a ridic pointer, but the ego LOVES it of course. It wants wants the "you" to be forever. Or the idea of it, because there's never been one. Many years of living with the sense that scenes are in fact happening at a spatial difference from this, gives a sense of being something over here and removed from the object. Life isn't "consciousness doing X or Y". It's not even a real thing: We see red because there is redness. There isn't a red that we observe that makes it redness. It's just redness. My stomach drops just typing that because I almost felt it again..... That's the impossible thing that is happening, redness is existent in total absence of anyone or anything seeing it. We are conditioned to believe the world is made of consciousness + senses + objects. We cannot believe that reality is just "objects" because we are taught qualia is reliant upon an observer... Or must be experienced (in experienced vs experiencer fashion)... There's no you, there's no experience, there's no red, there's redness. It doesn't need to be seen, redness is what it actually is. Red and seeing and observer is all fiction or cope....

@Razard86 He's not engaging in any deception... The person doesn't exist if they are not in the picture. Most of the time we don't have a head. You aren't in any scene, you don't exist. Can't find the you anywhere, it's never observed ever, so why assume it's there? Because the images come with the sense that they are "over there" and thus by inference you must be "here"? If the sense you're "here" as compared to "things" which are seeming to be "over there" is made up, which it is, you would never have developed an idea of a self or the idea that a you exists at all. You only have this sense because of the years of living with the sense of here vs far away.....

That's kinda panpsychist tbh. In that ego death stuff was happening but I wasn't aware of it, so I don't see that I am necessary. There's no proof the I character really exists or is ever present at all. You think I must have been there, but I wasn't there. MORE similar to the red being aware of itself. That's not what it was, but a much closer resemblance. Or if you can, try to imagine that qualia itself, the very quality of the thing, is what exists. E.g. not red, but redness. Red doesn't exist, REDNESS exists. The quality itself is present. The idea there is a you watching it to make it so, is not right. It's a thought added on, that red can only be redness in presence of your self..... In actuality when reality needs to produce redness, it simply produces redness. It doesn't produce red + redness, or you + red + redness. Redness is there. In absence of all else. Add nothing. Do not touch it. Don't tamper with it. Don't tamper with adding ideas of screens and movies. Redness. End. Just. Redness... Do not touch it at all. Not even one word. No ideas about appearances and memories and God and seeing. None of those are present. Redness. END. Since this did scare the shit out of me when the ego came back. Some resistance to even considering the idea might be terror. It means the end for the ego, it is = to literal death.

I'm not confused. Let people see what works for them. Ideas about consciousness are lined with misunderstanding and identification. It really is a horrible set of pointers IMO... I'm not sure why people don't just go direct, past all that, straight to reality.

No nothing like that. Tbh I'm kind of forgetting it now, now I'm just trying to remember and am anwering without the knowledge of it anymore.

Do away with the consciousness framework and this isn't an issue. Simplify everything with the aim of having even a child understand what you are saying. Develop metaphors to do this if possible. From trippy times the breakthroughs created a sort of oneness which had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with whether there were other people experiencing. It had actually flat zero relation to the oneness whether they did or not. I can't actually describe that sense. Consciousness and the associated framework of learning is an ego trap, I am sure of it. Someone on here mentioned "impersonal consciousness" (I think they made the term up), which seems better but I doubt it could be understood easily. It's prone to being hijacked by an unruly ego to go off about lucid dreaming real life to give themselves all the power.

I had that effect (of being dead yet still here) in the hardware store the day after what happened. It's because much of what is identified with as a "self" can end. It seems impossible to consider "me as consciousness" having continuation, it is too easy to think it will be oblivion. But the no-self framework takes identification of self away from consciousness, and therefore you do not worry about the end of a temporary body. As it is easy to accept that reality continues unfettered by the death of a body. And when you can see that the body/self is a fiction, there is only reality, then it is clear how it will continue. Real death is basically ego death with, presumably, a memory-hole. You can be walking around a store and be dead. Full dead. The aliveness of the body does not matter since the body is not you, is not this.....

I'm not gonna draw a first person 3D view of a dude looking at flowers with his knees and stuff in frame. Accept my beautiful stickman... I wrote many metaphors regarding screens and awareness, and especially nothing. These are all fictitious beliefs based off of logic. This was death. I finally understand all the toad reports and that YouTube chick with the "uncompromising nonduality" schtick..... The second I go back to Atman shit I instantly become attached to the idea of being this thing. Bubbles of consciousness is mostly just a fancy sounding separation. I straight died... Flowers weren't all that was, obviously things like flowers go away. You can shockingly enough go away just like thr flowers. But the world still appears. Do you understand what I mean? Qualia without subjective view of it. Qualia not necessitated by other at all. How does the sound of a wave crashing happen in real life? It's just the sound, the crash. Everything else like you being there to hear it is made up. And wording this is also made up because words are themselves appearances of reality.

Yet more misunderstandings from the terrible "consciousness" framework of pointers.

This is inventions of logic. An idea of an imperceptible self or a self inside flowers, is invented and added onto the stark fact that flowers are appearing. Flowers are appearing. End. Don't add even one more word. Don't let the ego try to cram a "you" into the ewuation. Flowers are not appearing to God or some shit. Flowers. Alone. Flowers. Just flowers. No logic. FLOWERS. No screen flowers are appearing in. JUST flowers. FLOWERS FLOWERS FLOWERS FLOWERS. Stare at the flowers some more. Flowers.......

It doesn't make sense, that's partially why I panicked when confronted by something impossible. Screens and awareness, is all fiction. When flowers appear, there is the sheer reality that flowers are appearing. There is JUST flowers. There is no God making the flowers, nobody seeing the flowers, no you in the flowers, no you viewing the flowers, no you which the flowers live inside. The qualia is not reliant on a self, sights do not need to be seen the sight is the ONLY reality. Any time you try to add ANYTHING onto flowers, like "me" or "God" or "consciousness" just slap yourself and see it is just the image of flowers. ONLY that. ONLY THAT. ALONE. Delete yourself from the equation completely. There is flowers and it ends there.

@Razard86 It's horribly confusing. It's not you being confusing it's the entire belief system. It's very misleading. When the ego goes it is the same as actual death, with the luxury of continuity instead of an episode change. Reality cannot go away. There is no you to die, there is just reality. So there is not a you entity viewing flowers, you aren't in the flowers, they aren't in you, there is "flowers" period, point blank. Everything else is just ideas tacked onto the sheer reality that "flowers are appearing", nothing more.

Yeah, if only I had a way to represent the clinging caused by thoughts about "consciousness"... Maybe a bit thought bubble around the flower, and just delete the thought bubble. I can tell in myself, as soon as I switch to thinking in terms of "consciousness", there is clinging. Questions arise like "what happens to my consciousness when I am dead". When that portion is deleted, and reality is seen as appearing to nobody and nothing, there is no clinging. Because we naturally believe that reality precedes and supercedes our death, but struggle to find a way to shove our "consciousness" in there. How reality continues to appear is readily apparent when you lose identification with this God/conscious thing. I really think that is legit enlightenment. I forced it out of my mind and lost it now. This happens all the time... I try to figure out the truth -> I find it and become scared -> I curse myself for finding this out and try to delete it from my mind -> I successfully distract myself and forget and start from step 1.

God isn't real. Reality is what is happening right now. I don't see God hiding out in any of it. The happenings seem to be chunks of reality rather than all of it, given the sight of my phone screen and your computer monitor is both happening right now

@axiom I'm okay, I've been feeling extremely different since this happened. I feel some of my childhood traumas have been lifted. It kinda feels like young me is being resurrected from the dead... I should just accept my entire 20s was a write-off. Yeah "impersonal awareness" might also work. It is literally just this:

Yeah ofc because the ego filter is back up. You know things don't actually change, just the filters and perspective overlaying them.

The knowing of X object is by itself like how I'm saying the redness of red sings out by itself, without you being found anywhere in that... For some reason that triggers insight in me, to imagine painting a red line and it sounds like a violin. As long as there is an A in opposition to B, like a conscious being and unconscious object, there is duality. I know how the illusion is created. It is simply created when a sense of spatial distance exists. It is literally as simple as there being a 3D space projected, and the "objects" of awareness are sort of thrown out into the distance... Use your own paradigm for a moment, these images are all creations of your mind. And thus even for a materialist, they exist inside the head. Inside you. But see how it feels like it is a distance away? The "absence" in place of where the object apparently should be, creates the location of our "self". By generating any apparent space, you necessarily create a dual appearance and the missing side of this is what our ego uses to "center" us in an image. There cannot be any actual distance in singularity.

These pointers misled me. I think they're extremely misleading and basically lead to replacement of normal ego with just a jazzed up spiritual version of it. I agree with the Buddha. Lack of any attachment is much more similar to awakening.

You will discover you aren't real when the world continues (e.g. the flower still appears) yet all elements and ideas of a you are no longer there. I am sure the fact it is this incomprehensible is why people aren't all just spontaneously "awakening" all the time. If you draw on a piece of paper a stick figure, and draw a flower in front of it, and a thought bubble over the figure's head saying "flower" or sketch a mini version of the flower, whatever you choose to represent how "you" see the flower... Yeah? Okay, now cross out the stick figure and leave the flower and thought bubble. This is normal spiritual ideas, and like Idealism, which says there is a you, namely "consciousness" (the thought bubble) which is aware of the flower. Now cross out the thought bubble. Don't touch the flower. That's what's really there, that's what was always really there. The stick figure body and thought bubble consciousness/mind are fictional addons.

Exactly. This is what Neo-Advaita people say but it causes spiritual bypassing I guess. The end of the path is recognizing there was never a path and nobody on it, but ironically you can't recognize there was never a path until the end of the path... Everything happening is in fact standing alone. You are the fiction added onto what is. "I am seeing a flower", where "I am seeing" is added fiction. Nowhere in the image of the flower is there an "I" or anything seeing it. What is actually there when unspoiled by added fiction, is just flower.

Nothing... This is the illusion of the ego and the falsehood of human interpretations of reality, the belief that there must be something "conscious of" the phenomena, and that it cannot exist in standalone fashion in absence of you, consciousness, God, or any other idea like that... Flowers don't need you present looking at them for them to appear. If reality expresses a flower, the image of it is what is expressed. Not the image of the flower and a you watching the image. I think this is probably genuine enlightenment, and death.

Your existence is fiction. Go stare at a flower and find where the you is in that. It's just not there... What is called experiencing does not need you present at all. Experiencing is also a fiction since that would mean an experience and experiencer split, when the experiencer does not exist and never did. That's the ego trick. Reality is not painted with a substance plus the phenomena it takes the form of. Mentally pull the brush tip across blank white and have it paint the sound of a violin directly onto the page. No middle-man. The sound of the violin is what is. Not consciousness not you not God.

Fucking LOL.