Being Frank Yang
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Posts posted by Being Frank Yang
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6 hours ago, Flyboy said:It seems to me that the biggest difference between Leo's teachings and Frank's is the "Knot of Perception." By taking meditation to its ultimate conclusion, the illusion of reality being "dead" is finally broken (this is an actual change in mental processing, where the mind no longer makes models of reality which are updated, but instead perceives it directly, 1 to 1 with sensate information). When reality is seen as it IS, there is NO ROOM left for any "self", and the dependently originating and infinitely intelligent / interconnected nature of every particle of existence is perceived in real-time to be alive, aware of itself, and part of the infinite loop of existence.
This infinite loop starts with you, and in the NOW continuously expands to infinite mind (through a God-mind version of the conceptual chain (ala Derrida), where every concept leads to other concepts until all of infinity is invoked, which then collapses back into infinite causality which manifests you (and every other particle) in every instant. All of this happens Everywhere, in the Now, with Everything. It is the great cosmic snake, with no center, no self, springing from Nothing but encompassing Everything:
Leo's teachings focus on the God-mind part - the part of this loop where all of infinity is known and comprehended. Frank focuses on the whole loop. You guys are talking about the same reality though. When Frank says you are projecting a separate self onto reality, it's like when Leo talks about projecting math onto reality -- the concepts within "understanding" are like math - very close, but not quite IT. And of course, they never can be. Reality can only ever BE Reality.
@Being Frank Yang I would love to know if you agree with this.Yes thank you for sharing. This is pretty much my moment to moment experience since Awakening after the knot of perception is untied. I've used this very same gif in various formats and variations in many of my videos and IG posts to illustrate Infinity/Emptiness/Form/Reality. I think the biggest difference between us is the emphasize on having this shift permanently through meditation and self inquiry but also not dismissing the use of psychedelics.
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anyone know how to embed and post a YT video ? haha
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3 hours ago, Ry4n said:The lowest point can be a portal to the highest one. Or at least it can be. I think it was adyashanti that described it as a limbo zone that proceeds God/Spirit. This really only applies to the meditative path though, psychedelics take you straight to source but it's not the full picture IMO. I feel like both you guys could learn a lot from each other. Or I'm just full of shit
lol.
Yes!
omg I know
we need a live discussion between the two.
4 hours ago, King Merk said:I love Adyashanti, I think his Realization is deeper than 99 percent of mainstream teachers in the spiritual market place. If you look at his awakening experiences he describes experiencing both Big Bangs (Infinity) and Big Crunches (Nothingness) and anything freaky and fucked up in between. The most extraordinary thing is how ordinary he is. One of the only beings who talk about transcending even the entire paradigm of spirituality to become an Absolute NOrmie.
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2 hours ago, RMQualtrough said:By love do you mean the emotion as felt by humans? I have always been curious on this particular factor since many creatures are not able to feel this emotion. My strongest trip was DMT on 5 hits of acid, and in this trip most of my emotions cut out and I did not feel love. Only a sense of being overwhelmed.
So I have personally avoided equating God/I (whatever term is most palatable) to specific emotion like Love over others.
My own interpretation of these experiences is that psychedelics shut down the brain to various degrees, the brain being more of a limiter. But certain aspects stay online or are stimulated. One of the most important being the memory function (black/whiteouts being unhelpful). And similarly I think these drugs in some people cause increased feelings of wellbeing, love, euphoria (among other possibilities) - for others they may experience unspeakable terror and dread, or none of these things.
4 hours ago, King Merk said:Love = Life = Death = Truth = Reality = God. It has nothing to do with human emotions. It's what's left after the separate self is dissolved. Any spec of self will be conditioned. It's a "cold love", independent of any conditions, transcending even the need to be a compassionate Being. But every action will be compassionate when the separation is dissolved. It's when you dissolve the desire to help yourself or others that Love arise. The whole path of spirituality can be summed up as loving yourself so throughly that you die into the present moment so completely that you manifest all of Reality without any personal feels (but it also includes personal feels, although personally I haven't felt an "emotion" for months")
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Just now, Raptorsin7 said:@Being Frank Yang Wow what a quality post man. Hope you stick around the forum.
In your view what is the most direct path to understanding your highest awakening?
3 hours ago, King Merk said:Like what I posted to Leo, the combination of everything...Vipassana, self inquiry, Dozgchen, psychedelics, yoga and even other more unconventional methods like breathing, weightlifting, writing, making videos, even doing pick ups, everything you've ever done in your life contributes to awakening
I think this is what me and Leo have in common, neither of us stick to one particular method or path, Guerrilla path it is lol but for some people sticking to only one method works better so you just gotta see what works for ya
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18 minutes ago, Space said:@Being Frank Yang Hi Frank! I'm assuming this is the real Frank Yang based on your comments and a few other things.
Welcome to the forum man, pleasure to have you.
I've been enjoying your Youtube content for years
ahah it is good to be here
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5 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:I do not disagree with this. If all you do is Vipassana without any other practices this can indeed be a trap. This is why I look at Vipassana as only one of many methods, but the same could be true if you only apply the "Unified Mind" methods without seeing the nature of sensations. The reason why I dissect the thing from the Vipassana/sensation is because most of the people on this board are already very familiar with the other side of the coin.
During my big bang Realization/Kundalini Awakenings etc, there is WAY more similarity to my psychedelic trips than the insights and experiences i got from just dissecting sensations, which is the result of the combination of self inquiry, vipassana, psychedelics over the last 7 years. If you were to put a neutral frank yang inside my 5meo breakthroughs vs the Big Bang event, he would think he was tripping on 5meo DMT or a heroic dose of acid instead of gotten to that space through Vipassana alone.
The Realization of Infinity does seem to be missing in many Vipasanna practitioners, who rarely speak about the holistic and Cosmic experiences and Realizations of "Strange Loops/Universe Eating Itself/Cosmic Bliss", etc and are heavily more on the dry, "No-Mind/Emptiness" side of things.
Most Realized beings are lean towards one side of the equation, very few are totally unified in Infinity and Nothingness.
My argument here is that if you take just one side to the extreme you'll loop back on the other side. So the most effective approach is to slice the cat from all angles.
5 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:I do not disagree with this. If all you do is Vipassana without any other practices this can indeed be a trap. This is why I look at Vipassana as only one of many methods, but the same could be true if you only apply the "Unified Mind" methods without seeing the nature of sensations. The reason why I dissect the thing from the Vipassana/sensation is because most of the people on this board are already very familiar with the other side of the coin.
During my big bang Realization/Kundalini Awakenings etc, there is WAY more similarity to my psychedelic trips than the insights and experiences i got from just dissecting sensations, which is the result of the combination of self inquiry, vipassana, psychedelics over the last 7 years. If you were to put a neutral frank yang inside my 5meo breakthroughs vs the Big Bang event, he would think he was tripping on 5meo DMT or a heroic dose of acid instead of gotten to that space through Vipassana alone.
The Realization of Infinity does seem to be missing in many Vipasanna practitioners, who rarely speak about the holistic and Cosmic experiences and Realizations of "Strange Loops/Universe Eating Itself/Cosmic Bliss", etc and are heavily more on the dry, "No-Mind/Emptiness" side of things.
Most Realized beings are lean towards one side of the equation, very few are totally unified in Infinity and Nothingness.
My argument here is that if you take just one side to the extreme you'll loop back on the other side. So the most effective approach is to slice the cat from all angles.
At the end what we're talking about is the distinction between Love and Death, emptiness and form. Interesting there is a difference "vibe" to people who's Realizations are leaned towards one side vs another. Some Realized beings seem more "dead" than others, some are more fluid and bouncy, and are oozing out Love. The ones who have both have the reflexivity to shift back and forth between extremes. THis is rare. Perhaps most people simply have not taken their particular method to the very end point, so the circuit does not complete itself. All dots need to be connected to any other point, and all points penetrate themselves through and through. This was exactly what was experienced during my moment of awakening.
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33 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:Certainly not.
You are not conscious of what Love is.
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Actually I disagree with this Vipassana approach. It's too reductionistic. I understand what you are saying: you can deconstruct experience into discrete sensations and so forth as Vipassana loves to do, and this can be very useful and liberating. But this is not the same thing as a holistic consciousness of what things are. It's the spiritual equivalent of saying that the physical universe is nothing more than atoms. And this not correct. There is an understanding beyond the sum of its parts. Which is precisely why Vipassana people are not God-realized. They don't know what God is because you cannot know God by breaking experience down into atoms. I would further say that you cannot know what Consciousness is that way either.
There is a holistic infinite intelligence to Consciousness which is not any of its parts.
God is not any one sensation, nor can it be said to be just another experience among all the other experiences, like a table or a dog.
It is sort of like one who cannot recognize a human as a human because one insists on only seeing it as a bunch of cells. And what I'm pointing out is that something very important is missed in that approach. In fact, THE most important thing is missed. The goal should not be to atomize consciousness, but rather to interconnect it all infinitely to reach the highest understanding.
People like Shinzen Young, who spent 40 years in Vipassana deconstructing sensations are not God-realized. I questioned him very carefully. He does not understand what God is. He's a sweet and beautiful man, but God-realized he is not, and I don't want you to get trapped in that way.
People like Daniel Ingram also do not understand what God is -- even though Ingram has extraordinary technical meditative skill. Technical meditative skill is not good enough. Losing the ego is also not enough. What's missing is a holistic universal comprehension achieved by Infinite Mind. The Universe can grasp itself using its own Infinite Intelligence. And Intelligence is not any one sensation so you will never find it if you insist on only looking at individual sensations. It is the classic problem of missing the forest for the trees. Vipassana is like studying trees with a microscope and never seeing the forest.
I do not disagree with this. If all you do is Vipassana without any other practices this can indeed be a trap. This is why I look at Vipassana as only one of many methods, but the same could be true if you only apply the "Unified Mind" methods without seeing the nature of sensations. The reason why I dissect the thing from the Vipassana/sensation is because most of the people on this board are already very familiar with the other side of the coin.
During my big bang Realization/Kundalini Awakenings etc, there is WAY more similarity to my psychedelic trips than the insights and experiences i got from just dissecting sensations, which is the result of the combination of self inquiry, vipassana, psychedelics over the last 7 years. If you were to put a neutral frank yang inside my 5meo breakthroughs vs the Big Bang event, he would think he was tripping on 5meo DMT or a heroic dose of acid instead of gotten to that space through Vipassana alone.
The Realization of Infinity does seem to be missing in many Vipasanna practitioners, who rarely speak about the holistic and Cosmic experiences and Realizations of "Strange Loops/Universe Eating Itself/Cosmic Bliss", etc and are heavily more on the dry, "No-Mind/Emptiness" side of things.
Most Realized beings are lean towards one side of the equation, very few are totally unified in Infinity and Nothingness.
My argument here is that if you take just one side to the extreme you'll loop back on the other side. So the most effective approach is to slice the cat from all angles.
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59 minutes ago, Being Frank Yang said:I think the most direct and clearest way to put all those different stages of development and labels under context is the direct Realization on the NATURE OF SENSATIONS. Think of sensations as the atoms of your subjective experience, both inside and outside. What a meditator does is "zooming" into, deconstruct and dissecting and shred Reality into sensations at the microscopic level.
All sensations are aware of themselves exactly where they are.
All sensations are devoid of self/Self and spontaneously, co-dependently arising
No sensation "cause" or "own" another cluster of sensation.
Different vibratory velocity of sensations gives rise to the difference between "air", "liquid", "solid forms"
All sensations are in equal footing.
All sensations self-librate.
All sensations are "non-dual" in Nature, as in sensations in of themselves can't tell the difference between "God" or "poop" or "Awareness" or "Consciousness" or "Emptiness" or "Eternity" or "Love" Or "Intentions" "Matter" or "Mind" "Sober" or "Psychedelic Trip", "Time", "Space" etc
And since there is only "one substance", there is no difference between foreground and background, context and content, therefore phenomenons do not arise and pass into some "Source" that is more "real" or "permanent"
Now the labeling of these experiential phenomenons into concepts is, you guessed it, just more sensations.
So what's the difference between the awakened state and the egoic state?
in the former the "knots of perception" is forever untied because the nature of sensations is penetrated experientially. Now all sensations in your entire Field of experience "Lights Up", and are aware of themselves without a delay between the perceiver/observer/Witness and the perceived/observed/Witnessed. This is your moment to moment experience of Godhead/Infinity/Eternal Awareness because when sensations are experienced without a doer/controller/seer/hearer/thinker all 360 degrees are KNOWN and COMPREHENDED AS ITSELF without the delay between object and subject. Thus Reality feels OMNISCIENT.
Wheres in the "egoic state" a certain cluster of sensation arise in the center of experience, usually inside the head, behind the eyes, and in places inside the body HIGHJACKS other clusters of sensations to "take credit" for other clusters of sensations that are simply comprehending themselves due to conditioning. When this happens there's contraction of energy. There's identification. There's the feeling of "me-ness".
See when you zoom experiences down to the atomic level (Max effort contraction), when you can no longer divide it, this singularity loops back into the other side (strange loop anyone? haha) and becomes Infinitely Expansive. This is why the practice starts out as dissecting atoms, but at the end you end up "Vipassnalizing the whole universe" The very small is identical to the very large like the merging of quantum mechanics x Cosmology, Love x Death at the subjective level. The parts is the Whole, the atom is the universe and vice versa. Now you can get to the same end point either by contraction or expansion, which is why the "Do-Nothing" meditation of Infinite Awareness abiding as Itself is exactly the same as Vipassana. And of course you can do both during a psychedelic trip
When you take this to the end point contraction and expansion happens simultaneously and both sides of the duality lose meaning, and you abide in Absolute Infinity AND Absolute Nothingness simultaneously.
Now what happens when you do not see clearly the nature of sensations at all levels as empty (AND FULL), is that one particular level is always going to seem more or less "real" or "solidified" than another level, hence contraction occurs, and identification takes place. Thus clinging and suffering.
Hope this clears some things up!
So wtf is the "Natural State"? It's simply a state of total equanimity where all sensations simply arise as they are without any one cluster "taking credit" and becoming "more solidified" or "Absolute" than another. That's it ! And my definition the Natural State does not exclude any states, you're simply not identified with any of it because there is no "center" or "subject" to "own" any level of sensations.
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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:TOtally agree
Of course.
I have always equated God = Nothingness = Everything = Love = Infinity = Truth = Absolute = One = Many = You = Consciousness
There are many facets to this thing and in the end they are all equate into a perfect Unity.
Yes. The y axis is actually a loop. Once you go low enough you start to move up. And once you move up enough you start to move down.
1 hour ago, Inliytened1 said:Precisely. Like you said that is the way God Consciousness can be accessed via meditation. Of course the most gifted may spontaneously hit God Consciousness without stopping the mind at all.
19 minutes ago, VeganAwake said:"An Empty Answer
You want me to “say more” about nothingness. Could anything be more paradoxical for the reader than to try to understand “nothing”?
Why? Because most people start from the conviction that there is something which does exist; if nothing more, at least “me”.
So, you will not likely appreciate nothingness unless you have come to realization through advaita. At least we will, then, begin without the assumption that a “me” really exists.
But even for the realized advatin, there will almost certainly be a presumption that “something” exists in the realm of reality. Even “reality”.
Advaita points to ajata, and ajata is about nothingness, or emptiness. The Diamond Sutra of Buddhism, points exclusively to it. Hui Neng, the Sixth Chinese Patriarch, declares flatly: ‘There is nothing from the start.” These sources, among others, set your foot on the path, but recognize that most people are then going to immediately be lost.
I have written clearly about advaita, and several have understood what I’ve said. I have spoken, to some of these, about what lies beyond the “Absolute,” and a couple have understood. So I will try to explain it, as best I can.
The “ultimate condition” (if any) is nothingness, the complete “absence” of anything—no thing, of any possible description.
The (approximate) comprehension of this would be to conceive of “emptiness”, as the emptiness of which not anything could be emptied; pure unassociated emptiness, and not even an emptiness which is within some imagined boundaries.
The word “void” could be applied; but this “actuality” is not void of something—in any positive sense.
So the nothingness of which we speak is totally empty, free of any subtlety which could even be envisioned.
Hence there is not anything “within” it that can be subject to any kind of movement, or even change.
Not anything can “come from” nothingness, nor “return” to it. It is not the “origin” of anything.
In fact, it could not be applicable to say that it exists, or does not exist. Thus we can’t say that this is the “beginning” condition or the “ending” condition. At best, we could say that (if it were “existent”) it would be the ever-present condition.
Yet, it is not an abstraction: its presence is “eternal”.
“In” its presence are supposed creatures, and the world and universe they seem to inhabit. But all of these supposed things are “in” nothingness. They have not appeared from nothingness, or out of nothingness, or because of nothingness. In fact, they have not actually “appeared”, except as nothingness.
The creatures take their reality, their “existence”, for granted; and thus also the reality or existence of the world and its universe—not knowing that they are nothing.
The assumption is: ‘There was a time when I didn’t exist, a time when I existed, and a time when I will no longer exist”. But there are no such times. Not anything has ever “existed”, from the standpoint of nothingness. In nothingness, there is no “time”.
What makes this so difficult to understand, is that because we say that “I have existed”, we conclude that there is some thing. And indeed we look around and say there are other things, such as a world or a universe.
But the presumption that there was a time when I did not exist (or do; or will not exist) is false: no arising, abiding or decaying exists in nothingness. In other words, not anything “happens” in nothingness.
“We” are nothing, the “world” is nothing, the “universe” is nothing. In nothingness, there is neither existence nor nonexistence. There is only nothing.
From the standpoint of nothingness, no questions can arise. We can not ask for, nor expect, an explanation: not anything ever happens, in nothingness.
The value of this understanding is that not anything really matters. Even understanding this does not matter. All is emptiness. That is the “empty” answer.
The scriptures speak of one who is in sahaja samadhi as having “no mind” or an “empty mind”. It is this appreciation of nothingness that is referred to"
- Robert Wolfe
All this is too theoretical. see above post
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I think the most direct and clearest way to put all those different stages of development and labels under context is the direct Realization on the NATURE OF SENSATIONS. Think of sensations as the atoms of your subjective experience, both inside and outside. What a meditator does is "zooming" into, deconstruct and dissecting and shred Reality into sensations at the microscopic level.
All sensations are aware of themselves exactly where they are.
All sensations are devoid of self/Self and spontaneously, co-dependently arising
No sensation "cause" or "own" another cluster of sensation.
Different vibratory velocity of sensations gives rise to the difference between "air", "liquid", "solid forms"
All sensations are in equal footing.
All sensations self-librate.
All sensations are "non-dual" in Nature, as in sensations in of themselves can't tell the difference between "God" or "poop" or "Awareness" or "Consciousness" or "Emptiness" or "Eternity" or "Love" Or "Intentions" "Matter" or "Mind" "Sober" or "Psychedelic Trip", "Time", "Space" etc
And since there is only "one substance", there is no difference between foreground and background, context and content, therefore phenomenons do not arise and pass into some "Source" that is more "real" or "permanent"
Now the labeling of these experiential phenomenons into concepts is, you guessed it, just more sensations.
So what's the difference between the awakened state and the egoic state?
in the former the "knots of perception" is forever untied because the nature of sensations is penetrated experientially. Now all sensations in your entire Field of experience "Lights Up", and are aware of themselves without a delay between the perceiver/observer/Witness and the perceived/observed/Witnessed. This is your moment to moment experience of Godhead/Infinity/Eternal Awareness because when sensations are experienced without a doer/controller/seer/hearer/thinker all 360 degrees are KNOWN and COMPREHENDED AS ITSELF without the delay between object and subject. Thus Reality feels OMNISCIENT.
Wheres in the "egoic state" a certain cluster of sensation arise in the center of experience, usually inside the head, behind the eyes, and in places inside the body HIGHJACKS other clusters of sensations to "take credit" for other clusters of sensations that are simply comprehending themselves due to conditioning. When this happens there's contraction of energy. There's identification. There's the feeling of "me-ness".
See when you zoom experiences down to the atomic level (Max effort contraction), when you can no longer divide it, this singularity loops back into the other side (strange loop anyone? haha) and becomes Infinitely Expansive. This is why the practice starts out as dissecting atoms, but at the end you end up "Vipassnalizing the whole universe" The very small is identical to the very large like the merging of quantum mechanics x Cosmology, Love x Death at the subjective level. The parts is the Whole, the atom is the universe and vice versa. Now you can get to the same end point either by contraction or expansion, which is why the "Do-Nothing" meditation of Infinite Awareness abiding as Itself is exactly the same as Vipassana. And of course you can do both during a psychedelic trip
When you take this to the end point contraction and expansion happens simultaneously and both sides of the duality lose meaning, and you abide in Absolute Infinity AND Absolute Nothingness simultaneously.
Now what happens when you do not see clearly the nature of sensations at all levels as empty (AND FULL), is that one particular level is always going to seem more or less "real" or "solidified" than another level, hence contraction occurs, and identification takes place. Thus clinging and suffering.
Hope this clears some things up!
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Oh yeah if you guys are looking for more practicality on what's been discussed. I find the combination of all KIIINNDS of practice the most suitable for modern practioners.
Vipassana/Theravada Path to Realize emptiness/No-Mind/Non-Being
Vajrayana/Dzogchen style practice to Realize One Mind/Infinite Awareness/Eternal Being
Psychedelics to have quick glimpses, speed up the whole thing, dissolve conditions faster etc
Do both self and Self Inquiry through out by objectifying and labeling every sensation, experience, perception, thought, emotions during the above 3, even insights, as not-this, not-that until you become NOTHING
and then you'll b EVERYTHING hehe
ps taking any of those path to the end point will merge everything into One.
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33 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:@Being Frank Yang FRONK!!
Hiiihihihi I gotta go for my morning hike love you all
hope everyone is staying safe/ we got 100+ local covid cases here in taiwan for the first time ever everybody is freaking out lol
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5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:And I have never denied that. That downward path to emptiness, as I call it, has validity and usefulness. Obviously Buddhists are doing something right with their practices. Namely what they're doing is dissolving the mind/ego. This is important to do, up to a point.
But I would still say that what's missing there is God-realization and Love. That downward path has a reductionistic bias. There is a tendency to reduce everything down to no-mind, and this is not something I'm on board with. I see value in it, but it is not the full path and it is not the highest realization as far as I'm concerned.
I see far too many Buddhist and Neo-advaita types who have no clue what God is and no clue what Love is, and even worse, denying the reality of both, which to me is an abysmal failure. They have reduced consciousness so far down that they lost the most important part. These people are not as conscious as they could be, even if their ego is very dissolved.
I reject the notion of "mystical experiences". All experience of any kind is Absolute Truth. All states are Absolute Truth.
God-realization and Love is not merely "a mystical experience". That kind of dismissive attitude is what I challenge.
On board with you there. Yes sir No Mind is not the full picture. Neither is One Mind. It's the merging of the 2 (Absolute Infinity/Love and Absolute Nothingness) that brings out a much fuller picture. And all of this can include the "I" Realization of NO self does not exclude the conventional self. Thanks for clarifying. Non-Duality is just one aspect of existence. None Locality another. I think "Uni-Locality" comes closer to what we're ultimately pointing to.
You are nothing, everything, yet something
You are nowhere, everywhere, yet somewhere
You are nobody, everybody, and a somebody
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On 5/17/2021 at 8:24 AM, RedLine said:" from the absolute perspective, all of that is right now imagined to have happened." is a believe you are having in the present moment, so it is not real.
You see, I can also play this game so your solipsistic perspective is not more real than my materialistic perspective because both are thoughts that are arising in the present moment. That´s why Leo and Nah discourse doesn´t make sense, because what they are attacking is as false as what they are stating, from the Absolute perspective.
All these solipsistic game is just neurosis and dishonest dialectic arguments. The idea "you are imagining everything" is also false because it is an idea!!
Most people going around about "Everything is Imagined", "There is no past, future, present" " there is no me here" certainly don't behave like this in everyday life. Those are all just ideas. Some experiences. And sure those experiences are valid, but it's not the whole picture. It's not an Absolute. The deepest form of Oneness and Unity includes separateness. Sure after years of meditation I can perceive the table to be an Infinite 5meo-like holographic projection arising out of the Nothingness of Godhead etc but sometimes a table is just a table. Show me your emptiness right now. Show me this Eternal Being Awareness. Show me your God and Mystical experiences.
On 5/17/2021 at 8:24 AM, RedLine said: -
On 2021/5/16 at 6:36 PM, Adamq8 said:With all that's been said, it all comes down to the difference between Realizing "God", "IT" whatever you wish to call the thing permanently as a perceptual and experiential moment to moment shift vs. having a peak experience and then coming back down to the separated state. This is what I call the transcendence of self (on meditation or psychedelics) vs the dropping away of self (Realization/permanent shift). In the latter "Everything is Consciousness", "Reality is Absolute Love" "All Is God" simply vanish. It's very obviously all those are still just projections from the separated state. Nature itself would not label itself as this or that. The simplicity of this cannot be fully appreciated if one is still operating under the separated state.
The reason why I made this video is to make a clear distinction of the 2, since there are not a lot of information on the latter. Adyashanti is the only popular mainstream teacher I know of who talks about true No-Self from the embodied perspective. Even teachers like Tolle and Rupert Spira and most of Leo's God stuff are speaking from the One-Mind/Big Mind stage. Like I said most people confuse I Am Consciousness, I Am Infinity or I Am Nothing with No-Self. Not making a judgement about their levels of Realizations on those teachers, but simply as an observation base on their teachings.
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On 2021/5/16 at 6:36 PM, Adamq8 said:Frank Yang is obsessed with "Natural State" as well as cessations.
He speaks of cessation as his GOD or natural state.
Cessation shows that conciousness is impermanent he clearly states, then how come conciousness always comes back etc?
Does it not clearly show that it brings you instantly back into conciousness?
Since there is no experience of unconciousness, there is only experience knowable?
Just notice that frank too is falling into the trap of labeling experiences or non experience experiences too with the mind.
And he has called him self the Ronnie Coleman of conciousness as well which is a funny statement ?
Things like this just clearly shows that it is still within the individuated Mind to interpret the experiences according to their school of thought.
But frank yang clearly has a hard on for Leo imo.
My thoughts on Frank is that he is great but somehow it does not feel that he is 100% true about what he speaks about and I do feel that the claim he has been making about certain topics is questionable and untrustworthy.
23 hours ago, RedLine said:No, pure understanding is just silence and peace, it is not a methapisical idea about reality. I have been trap in that solipsistic perception for a while and I I had this deep realizaion recently: both "reality exists" and "reality is imaginary" are false, in the same degree of falsehood; present moment is ARATIONAL
I second quote this. Both are also true
but yes any absolute (or relative) statements about metaphysics at the end completely useless from that place of direct silence
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On 2021/5/17 at 6:29 AM, tatsumaru said:Here's what the Buddha taught about non-being and impermanence to his most advanced students (Makes you wonder how enlightened are those preaching non-being and non-self really?)
Tathāgata was the term that Sakyamuni referred to himself as, instead of the pronouns me, I or myself. Tathāgata is the Buddha that most Buddhists, those on the Long Paths, don’t want to discuss.
“Those who cannot accept that the Tathāgata is eternal, cause misery”-Mahaparinirvana Sutra.
What? How can Buddha say that; didn’t he say everything is impermanent?
The Buddha said the Self is “indestructible like a diamond” -Mahaparinirvana Sutra.
No way! The Buddha said there was no self.
“I will now show you the nature which is not produced and not extinguished” -Shurangama Sutra.
Buddha said that “Buddha Nature [the Tathāgata] is the True Self and like a diamond, for example, it cannot be destroyed” Dharmaksema.
Yes, Buddha taught impermanence, suffering, Emptiness, non-self for child-like students; yet on the day of Parinirvana, the Tathāgata taught eternity, happiness, and the Self, saying , “now, when his students have overcome the sickness of false views and possess a healthy, more mature appetite, he can teach them the Tathāgatagarbha.”
“Those who hold the theory of non-self are injurers of the Buddhist doctrines, they are given up to the dualistic views of being and non-being; they are to be ejected by the convocation of the Bhikshus and are never to be spoken to”-Lankavatara Sutra 765.
So why did Sakyamuni Buddha speak of non-being?
He told a story of a woman with an ailing infant. The sickness of that child requires that it temporarily desist from drinking its mother’s milk while the medicine which has been administered to it is assimilated. To facilitate this, the mother smears her breasts with a bitter substance, and this deters the infant from suckling at his mother’s breasts. But after the medicine has been absorbed, the child can drink the health-bestowing mother’s milk to his heart’s content – although at first he is hesitant and fearful of doing so. This relates to the doctrine of non-Self, Emptiness (which many commentators on Buddhism equate with “non-substantialism” or “non-essentialism”) and Self: when his students are still spiritually “sick”, the Buddha gives them the bitter medicine of “non-Self” and Emptiness; but when they have progressed into greater health and maturity, he teaches them the reality of the Tathagatagarbha.
A commentator mentions how early in this sutra the Buddha has to reprimand his enthusiastic “non-Self”-championing monks who “repeatedly meditate upon the idea that there is no Self” for being perverse in their understanding of Dharma and wrong-headedly applying the teaching of non-Self where its writ does not run – to the real Self.
“As when a garment is cleansed of its dirt, or when gold is removed from its impurities, they are not destroyed but remain as they are; so is the skandha self freed from its defilements”- Lankavatara Sutra 756.
Correct. Self and no self are exactly the same thing at the end. Attaching yourself to the lens of no self is the same as attaching yourself to God, emptiness, or any of it. True Self is no self and anything in between is also IT. This is why I make a distinction between "stage 4" of awakening as being the emptiness phase and emphasize on the "goal" being the merging and the dis-identification from all stages and every stage/Realization is complete within itself.
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7 hours ago, Consilience said:Frank calling consciousness impermanent is the Buddhist notion of consciousness. Awareness is impermanent, and awareness can replace Yang's definition of consciousness here if he's going by traditional Buddhist definitions. The consciousness that Leo is talking about, in Buddhist terms, is Nirvana. Peter Ralston also makes this same distinction between awareness and consciousness, although I only learned that from a workshop I attended awhile back. At the time, I had no idea how there could be a distinction between awareness and consciousness.
In Buddhism, there's the Jhana of infinite consciousness, this is NOT Consciousness with a capital C. It is a (mis)translation pointing really to an absorption state of infinite awareness, awareness becoming infinitely aware of itself. This, however beautiful, is not God, or Consciousness.Awareness is impermanent. Every time you go to sleep you lose awareness. Pure, formless consciousness, or God, remains.
It is neither permanent nor not permanent. All those minor distinctions are beside the point. You can say the only permanence is impermanent. At the end it doesn't really matter. What it all comes down to is this - are you living fully in the present moment right now? Enjoying life at its fullest. It's that simple hehe. What is God, consciousness, awareness matters only up to a certain point.
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On 2021/5/17 at 5:48 AM, Leo Gura said:Plot twist: cessation itself is something you're imagining right now. It never happened.
You guys don't appreciate how fucked up this gets. Everything you think happened to you, never happened. Every single one of your prior awakenings is imaginary and designed to keep you from realizing you are God right now.
You are constructing a Buddhist dream when you tell yourself, "I went to a Buddhist retreat last year. I meditated for 10 days, and I had a cessation. I realized the Buddha's highest teaching." << THAT is the Buddhist dream! You are not God-realized.
Deny it all you want. That's exactly what you do to maintain your dream.
Yes Leo you are exactly correct. On the Absolute level a cessation is also empty. All of Buddha's teaching and the entire Path becomes the stuff of the dream. Fabrications. Spirituality is just a set of tools for you to ejaculate yourself out of the dream, this includes both psychedelics and meditation. However I'm still going to venture and say cessations when practiced correctly does make permanent changes to the neurons. Something is done to the brain when you train yourself to die and be unplugged from consciousness hundreds and thousands of times. The permanent perceptual shifts and moment to moment experience that occur after Fruition cannot be denied. The micro phenomenological insights that comes from observing in real time how every experience, from the most Divine to the most mundane, both the content and the context are constructed and fabricated particle by particle is crucial for awakening. And since there is a difference in "order" between unconsciousness and different levels consciousness, which I conclude ultimately leading up to the Natural State being in a different order altogether than both the egoic state and Mystical experiences.
but yes Ultimately it makes no difference, and like you said the brain is also just an idea.
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1 hour ago, knakoo said:So I copied and pasted the comment above in the youtube video comment section. Following was Frank responses :
"This is spot on hahaha amazing summary. So this really comes down to "exploring altered states of consciousness" vs "enlightenment" the 2 overlap but they're not exactly the same. I tend to lean towards enlightenment work and Leo consciousness work. So it's actually a sweet combo for people who are interested in both. I'm willing to try psychedelics more yes but I haven't felt a calling for it yet. I think it's cool Leo and I share a lot of similar stuff but also coming from different angles and people are exposed to both
enlightenment is an un-altered states of consciousness while the stuff Leo talks about is not, but that does not mean you can't explore altered states from the Full Natty State. But the thing I wanted to point out is the difference between the 2, since most people confused enlightenment with exotic altered states of consciousness.
Ps. I kinda let go of the idea and attachment that sober way is the way. I see both meditation and enlightenment as both just being tools, and the effects and content of both techniques are mainly the dissolution of the separate self. This does NOT mean you can't explore those content."
Hahahah thanks I thought I would make an account and discuss it directly with you guys. Thanks for posting
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On 2021/5/16 at 5:54 PM, Enlightenment said:I think Frank misunderstands Leo. When he says I've been there in God-consciousness/realization state persistently over a year and a half and then went beyond to completely lose any center - this is not a state Leo talks about
I also went through the stages to completely lose the center, like that bubble of self gets bigger and bigger until it dissolves completely but those are all still unalerted states of consciousness "sober" states. They don't feel nearly as solipsistic as 5-MeO trips, not even close.
It's important to make this distinction because Leo talks about more ecstatic states which are clearly "alerted" states of consciousness. There's a pretty clear sort of feeling to them like when you snort 5-MeO and start to feel the effects, it's pretty clear you've ingested the substance and it's alerted state now. There's no such feeling to natty states Frank talks about, but as a tradeoff you miss a shitton of ecstasy and deep "understanding" Leo would call it
At the same time, Frank has this obsession with "it" having to be a natural state which is unalerted. I personally don't see why a constant state of 5-MeO (even if alerted and chemically, artificially induced) wouldn't be "it"
I agree with Frank about cessation showing clearly consciousnesses impermanence. And the problem is that Leo should IMO become much better meditator to have a more complete understanding and Frank should do more powerful psychedelics now, after his center/self-loss
Frank misses much much deeper levels of solipsistic God discovery and Leo misses dependent origination, cessation expieriences
This is spot on hahaha amazing summary. So this really comes down to "exploring altered states of consciousness" vs "enlightenment" the 2 overlap but they're not exactly the same. I tend to lean towards enlightenment work and Leo consciousness work. So it's actually a sweet combo for people who are interested in both. And although we disagree on some parts of the Path I do have a lot of respect for Leo's fearless approach to exploring altered states of consciousness.
I'm willing to try psychedelics more yes but I haven't felt a calling for it yet.But like I said in there, ego is altered states. Mystical experiences either on psychedelics and meditation is altered states. Natural state is an un-altered states of consciousness. But that does not mean you can't explore altered states from the Full Natty State. But the thing I wanted to point out is the difference between the 2, since most people confuse enlightenment with exotic states of consciousness.
I myself made this mistake before gaining access to the Natural State, as it is impossible to know what ________ is like from both the altered state of self and Self: individual mind and Universal Mind. Now the Natural State is the ______ that "manifest both", a place where one sees clearly and directly that at the "microscopic level" of sensations both are just different reconfiguration of energy and sensations that are dependently arising.
Ps. I also agree with you about being attached to getting to psychedelic states sober but since then I've let go of this. I see both meditation and psychedelics as both just being tools for dissolution and their effects the side effects and by products. This does NOT mean you can't explore those content. Even post Awakening one can still go back to previous stages and explore their nuances.
But interestingly stated in the video after Realization of No-Self and cleaning out most of my conditions, it is impossible to even call up Jhanas anymore or access Kundalini energies because even jhanas and "chakras" are the by products of the stratums of mind getting dis-embedded and released.
But if you want to get technical the moment to moment experience of the Natural State is very close to the 6th jhana of Infinite Consciousness (Buddha-Mind/Super Witness/One Mind) and the 9th jhana of cessation. The difference being pre-Realization there was still a 'center' perceiving this field of Infinity, post Awakening the center is dissolved, hence you vanish and die into the present moment to "manifest" all of 'Reality'
'Wisdom is knowing I am nothing,Love is knowing I am everything, and between the two my life moves.' - Nisargadatta Maharaj sums up the dark light of the Absolute perfectly.
This also mirrors my conclusion that the Natural State/"Buddhahood" is the transcendence and merging of "arhat" and "bodhisattva", where the former is the emptiness/Nothingness/Death/Non-Being phase and the latter is Universal Compassion/Love/Being.
But of course I'm not talking about the historical Buddha...“There is Buddha for those who do not know what he is really. There is no Buddha for those who know what he is really.” That is, Buddha exists for those who still need an ideal image to aspire to in order to get enlightened, but he doesn’t exist for those who no longer need such a mental prop. The exactly same thing can be applied to God.
in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
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This is also true. All experiences after Realizing of Anatta are simply by products. The REalization itself is not an experience. You cannot locate the "I" at all. No source. No center. Before Realization is stabilized and before center is completely dissolved getting lost in the experiences can bring out more ego conditionings. As I've said many times before, having jhanic experiences and psychedelic trips while you still have a center is possible but if you play with sensations too much or is too attached to "Godmind", it'll get you stuck. All experiences such as Strange loops, micro and macro levels, Pure Consciousness/Awareness etc comes naturally after you Realize No-Self. IN fact they can only be manifested purely with No self, and by the time you stabilized Anatta experiences don't matter anymore.