Gesundheit2

According to non-duality, there both is and isn't a difference between reality and imagination. It's a mistake to only say that there is a difference, and it's also a mistake to only say that there isn't. But that's just non-duality. And it's true and false at the same time, according to itself.

Says who?

Hum alongside the bass to enter an altered meditative state.

Don't get me started on this.

So sexy ???

Probably group-think and generationally-inherited dogma. I don't think the states you mentioned are high consciousness states, rather just altered states with relatively/mildly low levels of consciousness. Keep in mind that most of these Hindu-Buddhist stories originated before science, so the probability of delusion is pretty high. Science contributes to less delusion/more consciousness, which the stories lack. Here's a more down-to-earth explanation for what I said above: No-mind states have nothing to do with high consciousness, in fact they have more to do with low consciousness. You can be highly conscious and still think, more properly and effectively even. Meditative states with no thoughts/perception are just altered states. Oneness is not a high consciousness state. It's low consciousness, because it doesn't allow for duality. Non-duality is a higher state than duality, because it allows duality, includes, and transcends it into oneness, unlike pure oneness. So that's a pre-trans fallacy. Ken Wilber refers to this phenomenon of mistaking lower states for higher states as elevationism. High consciousness is an integral thing. The more refined, well-rounded, and holistic your understanding of reality is, the more conscious you are. You can't just drug/alter your way into high consciousness. It's not possible.

I use the words "higher" and "lower" rather poetically in regards to consciousness. In reality, we can't quantify consciousness, nobody can. Any claim of higher levels is purely subjective and does not pass the objective test. Though, there are objective tests for lower consciousness levels, such as Glasgow Coma Scale. You can determine the level of consciousness of a person through using certain criteria based on the sober conscious state. But you can't measure higher levels of consciousness because there's no standard to contrast your current state against. Though, you can create your own standards. For example, in my opinion, the main criteria for higher consciousness are (1) functionality and (2) peace of mind. The more you achieve of both together in a maintainable way in the long run, the more conscious you likely are. If you have either of them at a high level but still lack balance of the other, then chances are you aren't at high consciousness yet, but likely half-way through. This has been my experience, at least. And all the signs point to that conclusion. So back to your questions, I don't think you can hold high consciousness while drunk, but that does not suggest even slightly the possibility that other "drug-or-otherwise-high" states can hold more consciousness than the sober state. I have found that the optimal state is the sober state. The more pure and unpolluted it is, the more consciousness it can hold. "High" states are often more creative but come with the risk of delusional thoughts. You will not believe how many delusional thoughts I have gained through "high" meditative states then filtered out of my mind. This recognition becomes really clear on the comedown. In my experience, it's been hard to tell what thoughts are delusional during the high until recently.

@Loba Did some cleaning up for ya. Hope you'll enjoy a more seamless experience ?

@BipolarGrowth Altered states is a distinct thing from high consciousness states. You can have altered states with low or high or average consciousness levels. And you can have sober states with low or high or average consciousness levels. They are two different parameters. An altered state with low consciousness doesn't produce awakening. It produces delusions. Altering your state of consciousness is not enough if you lack awareness.

By testing both of them against reality.

Yes.

It's the same difference between an actual cat and your thought of a cat. The actual cat is embodied and perceived directly, unlike a thought of a cat. I don't subscribe to any particular practice/method to produce awakening, so by all means criticize them all you want. For me, life as a whole is an awakening experience. I'm always awakening more and deeper. Lol.

Where's 2.?

Awakening negates this dream perspective. Otherwise, it's not awakening, but rather another sleeping pill. It is not an established fact that life is a dream. It is just a claim. Interesting, but what about this: ? Personally, I don't trust the word of drug users, they're often delusional, have poor judgement, and are mostly projecting their shadows onto reality. More importantly, their realizations and breakthroughs seem to always be tainted by their backgrounds/beliefs, so they're not very reliable. If you read the bible and took psychedelics, you're likely to see Jesus, etc.

Distinguish between an altered state and high consciousness. They are not the same. High consciousness does not negate the relative. Why would it? It would be high consciousness if you were able to see the two states and then choose to collapse them consciously, but since you weren't even able to distinguish between them, then that was not possible for you, so it was not optional. You were forced into not being able to distinguish, basically you were forced into low consciousness. High consciousness has the ability to distinguish, because distinction is a feature of the relative mind, and like I said above high consciousness does not negate the relative in any way. It only adds on top of it. By the way, collapsing duality is not as things truly are, but let's keep that to another discussion. It does not matter what reading is for. If you once had the ability to do something then somehow lost it, that means you have downgraded, not upgraded. It's not the euphoric state that is confused. It's that you were "seeing/realizing" the "Truth". It is confusion because absolute truth is not an object that you can see/realize. It's a little bit hard to explain, so I'll just give you this one.

I am biased, and I don't have any experience with psychedelics. But that does not automatically make me wrong. It's just not enough. What you said is interesting, mainly you're claiming that psychedelics have helped you experience a kundalini awakening, but (1) maybe they made you hallucinate that, and (2) maybe it was a coincidence. Some people experience spontaneous kundalini activation without any drugs or practice, and some people experience spontaneous third eye opening too. That does not help your point.

Cant' comprehend = low consciousness. Can't distinguish = low consciousness. Can't read/understand = low consciousness. Confusion = low consciousness.

It's actually the other way around. It requires a ton of training and work to suffer and be anxious.

@Knowledge Hoarder There's poetry in my native language literature that praises fat women. The fatter was the better, and the reasoning behind this is that they were perceived as healthier and coming from richer environments, therefore they are more fit for pregnancy. Humanity is more diverse than how it is portrayed nowadays.

Some level of fatness is healthy, despite what mainstream media advocates. Skinny women are not healthy, they are weak. They know it themselves before everyone else.

How deeply suffering can get is infinite, and therefore it's irrelevant for our human purposes, because it's outside of our control. Spiritual work is not about making outlandish feats in regards to withstanding horrible levels of suffering. It's about incorporating higher wisdom into daily human life in order to reduce unnecessary suffering that's within our control. Lolz.

Labels have minor metaphysical importance to me, if any. In practical terms, altered states is a term that refers to states of consciousness that aren't typical to human experience according to most humans. An enlightened master is not in a normal state, they're most likely in an altered state that is likely more functional/healthier than the average sober state.

Advaita does not recognize different states. Thanks. I couldn't have put it better.

It's the same when you want to quit a job that doesn't resonate with you anymore. Nobody can force-hire you. You don't want that job and that's just it. There's no way they can get you back unless they meet your standards, which are likely hard to meet to begin with if you are the one wanting the breakup. The last time I quit a job, the boss was asking me why, I told him the reason, and he started bargaining and gaslighting that this and this will happen. I told him, I understand all that, but I've already made up my mind. He said I'm not stopping you from leaving, I'm just telling you the outcome. I told him that I'm sure about my decision. He did another maneuver and I replied in a similar way, then he got it. It's not hard if you know you have valid reasons.

Would you say they are "higher" or "lower" states? Or simply just altered?