zazen

Yes, biology and psychology are intermeshed and influence each other greatly. If someone attractive jokes around and makes someone laugh, it triggers psychologically which influences their biology. As the saying goes, women fall in love with their ears and men with their eyes. Status comes in many forms. A male strong on a physical, emotional, financial, social, spiritual level can all display status in the eyes of women. It's not as simple as rich man = status = attractive. Theirs different strengths men can display, and women can respond to in attraction. This is reason enough for men not to become depressed, because a lot can be worked on that is in their control. Their body, their attitude, their social skills, humor, emotional resilience (not being unavailable/cold as a lot of the bro's would advise lol)

Psychology can't over ride our biology. Neither can culture supersede it. If psychologically you are developed and a woman came up to you and started rubbing on you, your biology is going to respond. Of course unless you are a Buddha, enlightened or a yogi but lets be realistic, we'r speaking about the general population.

A holistic perspective includes the material and the spiritual. The blind side of materialists is they exalt only our animal nature (and the cruel darwinian zero sum game aspect of it only) BUT the blind side of so called spiritualists is they exalt only our divine nature and deny the animal nature (as its cold and hurts our sense of morality on some level) and think all is just lovey dovey. The fact these truths sting a little is good, it shows sensitivity and that we are human and attuned to something higher in us that wishes to move away from that animal instinct, and to move towards intelligent living.

So biology doesn't exist? Yes, psychology can affect our biology and vica versa. We are souls incarnate into flesh. Carnate comes from carnal - latin root flesh. Carnival (celebration of flesh - drink dance feast) carnivore (flesh eater) etc. We are souls in flesh (the formless in form), you can't deny the flesh or the form we are in, our biology. It's not either or, its both and. A holistic perspective includes the material and the spiritual. The blind side of materialists is they exalt only our animal nature (and the cruel darwinian zero sum game aspect of it only) BUT the blind side of so called spiritualists is they exalt only our divine nature and deny the animal nature (as its cold and hurts our sense of morality on some level) and think all is just lovey dovey. The fact these truths sting a little is good, it shows sensitivity and that we are human and attuned to something higher in us that wishes to move away from that animal instinct, and to move towards intelligent living.

Elsewhere in this thread I had written this. Yes, what people feel is love in lower case, is just our biology at work drawing us closer and flooding us with feel good chemicals in order to procreate and propagate the species. Underlying all this is Love with a capital L, that is god / life. Love is embedded in reality, including us. It is the animating force that moves all form including man and woman to its own realisation. God is the seed, we are the flowering. In moments of orgasm and flooded with chemicals, we can forget ourselves, and come into union. When the ego is dropped in moments orgasm/union, Love is revealed to us. Although this moment is temporary and short lived, but it gives man a experience of the beyond, they know their is more to this life than just surface. The other person was just the trigger that helped us feel this union. Of course, we are able to come to such states without the other and with meditation/awakening. That is the beauty of human relationship and the design of evolution, our animal nature is used to reveal to us our divine nature. It is god in play, in hide and seek. ---------------------- A holistic perspective includes both the material and the spiritual. The blind side of materialists is they exalt only our animal nature (and the cruel darwinian zero sum game aspect of it only) BUT the blind side of so called spiritualists is they exalt only our divine nature and deny the animal nature (as its cold and hurts our sense of morality on some level) and think all is just lovey dovey. The fact these truths sting a little is good, it shows sensitivity and that we are human and attuned to something higher in us that wishes to move away from that animal instinct, and to move towards intelligent living.

@FlyingLotus Thank you for the links, Teal swan is amazing. Im actually fine and had a very healthy upbringing and amazing relationships. The original post was actual content from else where that I found interesting and wanted the forums insight on. If you go through some of my later comments in the thread I think you'll see my perspective more clearly and that is not all negative or that I'm hurt. @Emerald Im being as based in reality as much as possible. You'v overlooked my previous responses to your comments. I'v felt love and am loved in life by family and friends. But to keep these realities in the dark and not understand it is what is hurting a lot of people out there so better to understand our own biology and why we do what we do. Our culture has evolved drastically, but our biologies have not. The fundamental problems we face, are that we live with our primal instinct in a modern environment, if those instincts aren't tempered with our intelligence we go into chaos. It seems you like the idea of reality, rather than reality itself. I see reality and people for what it is and what they are, in its animal aspect and its divine also aspect and love it despite itself for what it is. @Raptorsin7 Its unfortunate indeed. I think I came with substance, delivered in style, and speedily but hey. As Marry Poppin's say, a spoonful of sugar,helps the medicine go down.

First define masculinity, then add the lens of green. The essence of masculinity is strength, feminine is softness. A strong masculinity at stage green will basically be in the service of green values - equality, environment, justice and rights. Tony stark comes to mind. Remember, that each stage integrates the below stage. You can be stage green and still be a billionaire like Tony Stark or Batman, you live amongst a orange world but with a green perspective. You have to work within the matrix, to shift the matrix after all.

Status isn't just someone who is a ceo or star. Emotional strength is held in higher status/regard in the mind of women also, all forms of strength are in some way status for women, be it physical, emotional, mental, social, financial and spiritual. Besides the elite social circles even amongst the average places, there is always those few men who get women's attention. They may not have financial strength but they have emotion strength , are funny , know how to socialise etc. In the past these men wouldn't be able to just sleep around with women because of social stigma, and every women had a mate who would come knocking on that mans door. Today its a different story, and college has a hook up / hoe phase culture. So now these women have intense emotional experiences with these men which can taint them in their later years and in their future relationships. They crave the sex they got from such men but the security of the nice guy who is too timid in that department. Her body wants the alpha, but her mind tells her to stay with the stable/secure man for long term. This split causes emotional distress in women, and why they find it harder to happy in relationships. Not only do they bring financial debt from the degrees, but emotional debt you have to deal with of their past hook ups with such men. I say all this with the utmost empathy for both men and women. Not sure what the solution could be. Theres clearly a mismatch of our instinct to our environment. The environment tugs away at our animal instincts, that is the problem we face today.

When girls miss a masculine presence when young they feel insecure and at threat, or if they were only exposed to toxic masculinity in the form of their father, that becomes imprinted in them as to how men are. So the need for security through the strength of man is craved. This leads them to to gravitate towards toxic strength as its much more easily seen and visible/visceral than positive strength, they are in a fight or flight state and need strength of any kind, as soon as possible. Most men are nice guys in fact, they are the guys who are usually friend zoned or the more silent types even and can be overlooked as as sexual option. They have been cut off from their masculinity in a similar way , due to lack of masculine role models / fathers growing up and a culture which is mostly feminising and saying masculinity is bad. School teachers are mostly women also so where can man learn what it is to be a healthy man - all the media shows are Dan bilzerian and rap music as thats what drives view/clicks. Attached to that is the whole me too movement which is valid, but men are ever more scared of getting in touch with their sexuality in a healthy way and interacting with women in such a way. Breakdown of the family unity, at a micro level leads to the breakdown of society at the macro and that is what we see. Don't be nice or bad but the good guy, the middle way. Nice - from the root word in latin is nescius which means ignorant. What nice guys miss is that they are ignorant of their masculine edge, they have strength of intellect and heart possibly but not so much of their physical, they aren't embodied. Bad guys are all balls and no head, nice guys mostly head and no balls. The good guy has his balls head and heart integrated.

Agreed and aware of this, we have to do better as a society to change this. Evolutionary psychology only came about 40/50 years ago and so we are better able to understand our nature and why we act the way we act. The more we move from ignorance to understanding the more compassion will arise. We see these themes played in many areas in media and culture, for example beauty and the beast. The beast is man in his animal nature, it is raw strength in the negative, but not sophisticated. The beauty (that is in all women) tames that strength and brings the beasts strength into the positive, and that has been the civilising power the feminine has had on the masculine over time. Although in todays day men are over civilised to the point now lacking strength in any form and masculinity is looked down upon. Which lends to women having to compensate and lose their softness in the process for they feel insecure once again. The past had women insecure in fear of negative strength, the modern day has women insecure due to lack of positive strength of men. We have soft and strong in all of us. The integrated man is mostly strong, with a dab of softness to round out his being. The women who is all soft without any strength is a door mat ready to be imposed on by predatory males. Today's world has over corrected this imbalance.

Everything has to be a pill these days, pill popper galore. Just see life for what it is and live accordingly. Women's animal nature rewards 'toxic' masculinity but not women's divine nature, they struggle because their body says one thing but something else in them says another, that this man is bad for me. In the past it wasn't rewarded but simply imposed on women, although today women can still gravitate towards 'toxic' masculinity. The 'bad boys' or 'barbaric men' on a deep level are displaying strength, although in its negative form. Their biology and emotion responds to it and over rides their logic. If their were stronger men in their positive form, they wouldn't gravitate towards the negative masculinity, but today positive masculinity is lacking. Us men need to change that. First by understanding, then by overcoming.

Yes, what people feel is love in lower case, is just our biology at work drawing us closer and flooding us with feel good chemicals in order to procreate and propagate the species. Underlying all this is Love with a capital L, that is god / life. Love is embedded in reality, including us. It is the animating force that moves all form including man and woman to its own realisation. God is the seed, we are the flowering. In moments of orgasm and flooded with chemicals, we can forget ourselves, and come into union. When the ego is dropped in moments orgasm/union, Love with a capital L is revealed to us. Although this moment is temporary and short lived, but it gives man a experience of the beyond, they know their is more to this life than just surface. The other person was just the trigger that helped us feel this union. Of course, we are able to come to such states without the other and with meditation/awakening. That is the beauty of human relationship and the design of evolution, our animal nature is used to reveal to us our divine nature. It is god in play, in hide and seek. Transaction is the nature of life, right now oxygen is being transacted between your lungs and the trees. The question is of depth. The prostitute and the male client are transacting at a superficial level. The man gives his money, the women just gives her body, but nothing more of themselves is shared. In a relationship, the body, heart/emotion, and energy are shared beyond just resources and the physical. The woman gives of her feminine essence, the male of his masculine essence. Only life/love/god is unconditional love, on the level of form we are bound by the physical, the finite, and with that condition.

Yes, its all about incentives. There is instinct, intelligence and the incentives that interact with the two. In big cities as urbanisation increases, our animal instincts are in over drive, especially mating instincts. Sex and the city isn't just a series but a real phenomena. Our hind brain keeps second guessing our partner in todays modern environment and won't allow us to rest as there's always the better option out there in the city, its a constant tease. Internet and in particular social media now has also given us access to unlimited potential mates. A girl living in rural america can get dm'd by a top tier man in New York / Miami / La and be flown out. Our instinct is to gorge food, and have sex / reproduce ad naseum. But we temper that with our intelligence. Rite now the reason for obesity and unstable relationships / hook up culture is due to our environment incentivising our instincts at a heightened level, which is a test for our intelligence and level of conscious control on ourselves. Fundamentally, our primal instinct, conscious intelligence, and modern environment are at war.

@Gesundheit2 That song is a vibe, only real tings round here Much love.

Emerald, see my reply to javfly33: '' Yes, what people feel is love in lower case, is just our biology at work drawing us closer and flooding us with feel good chemicals in order to procreate and propagate the species. Underlying all this is Love with a capital L, that is god / life. Love is embedded in reality, including us. It is the animating force that moves all form including man and woman to its own realisation. God is the seed, we are the flowering. In moments of orgasm and flooded with chemicals, we can forget ourselves, and come into union. When the ego is dropped in moments orgasm/union, Love is revealed to us. Although this moment is temporary and short lived, but it gives man a experience of the beyond, they know their is more to this life than just surface. The other person was just the trigger that helped us feel this union. Of course, we are able to come to such states without the other and with meditation/awakening. That is the beauty of human relationship and the design of evolution, our animal nature is used to reveal to us our divine nature. It is god in play, in hide and seek. '' ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- You say its nuance and it is, but part of that nuance is recognising the physical level of existence where we have a bio and neuro chemistry. Thats what Leo and spiral dynamics all eludes to, we have different modes of reality. You can't discount the physical level of things, its all integrated. Its not either or, but both and. A holistic perspective includes the material and the spiritual. The blind side of materialists is they exalt only our animal nature (and the cruel darwinian zero sum game aspect of it only) BUT the blind side of so called spiritualists is they exalt only our divine nature and deny the animal nature (as its cold and hurts our sense of morality on some level) and think all is just lovey dovey. The fact these truths sting a little is good, it shows sensitivity and that we are human and attuned to something higher in us that wishes to move away from that animal instinct, and to move towards intelligent living. Neither approach allows for total understanding and human flourishing. True Spirituality includes both and see's both. The level of the form and level of the formless. So called spiritualists (who deny the material) are so caught up in what reality should/could be they never consider what it really is physically. The materialists are so caught up in only what the physical reality is they never consider it could be more.

Your proving the point. Hypergamy is in all women, not just gold diggers. Women have STANDARDS and thank god for that. Women set standards for men must meet in order to procreate, thats what got us where we are today. Children are costly to raise in time and resources and women had to ensure the survival of their offspring with the most secure strong mate they could. If women didn't have standards and mated with anybody we would still be in caves. Strength and status come in differing forms, physical strength ensures protection on a physical level, mental shows you have intellect to manoeuvre reality and get creative to survive, emotional strength indicates your able to survive through hard times and if you have good emotion it signals you must have abundance, social strength and ties shows you can survive as you have people who will take care of you, and lastly spiritual strength and having magnetism make all humans feel alive spiritually themselves which they all want to bask in. Gold diggers are just looking for one kind of strength which is resources at the exclusion of all else in the man. You say '' if you make six figures and have a girlfriend, chances are she will not leave you for another guy with similar or higher stats, unless you lose those privileges.'' Yes, once a woman has consolidated on the best mate she can and they aren't any higher options out there and is emotionally invested in you its unlikely she will leave, ESPECIALLY if she doesn't have ACCESS to that better male or she thinks she can't get them. In todays world we have ACCESS all the time with the internet, even more with social media, and the illusion a lot can succumb to is they CAN get them because in the past they maybe slept with such a men/dated or those men even slide in their dm's , like their pictures on Instagram if its public, or they get in the presence of such men in their occupation. The monkey brain keeps second guessing in todays modern environment and won't allow us to rest, there's always the better option out there and our instinct is on over drive. It takes a lot of consciousness today to live through intelligence than instinct and to have healthy long lasting relationships, for the environment isn't as conducive for it. There is plenty of nuance in all of this. We also have sunken cost affect, which is once we have emotionally invested in something we don't want to give it up, even if there is something better out there, we cherish what we have built rather than the shiny new object we have no history with. We also don't want to lose the respect of the family or community in the past when it was looked down upon to divorce and branch swing. But biology can still get the best of us and plenty people still jump to the new better deal as their relationships become stale and its more morally accepted (not shamed like in the past) in the modern day.

Yes, what people feel is love in lower case, is just our biology at work drawing us closer and flooding us with feel good chemicals in order to procreate and propagate the species. Underlying all this is Love with a capital L, that is god / life. Love is embedded in reality, including us. It is the animating force that moves all form including man and woman to its own realisation. God is the seed, we are the flowering. In moments of orgasm and flooded with chemicals, we can forget ourselves, and come into union. When the ego is dropped in moments orgasm/union, Love is revealed to us. Although this moment is temporary and short lived, but it gives man a experience of the beyond, they know their is more to this life than just surface. The other person was just the trigger that helped us feel this union. Of course, we are able to come to such states without the other and with meditation/awakening. That is the beauty of human relationship and the design of evolution, our animal nature is used to reveal to us our divine nature. It is god in play, in hide and seek.

All depends on the place that artist is coming from. Some do it from lack, others from an expression of completeness. This forum and all of Leo's work is his art, his offering to us but I doubt it comes from a place of lack, more from a place of sharing and celebration. Freud studied sick people for the most part and thus his bias on human psychology and his view was that of the negative. Everything man does can only be for ego and is always sex related. In the east the enlightened ones were looked upon as they graced those lands, the positive psychology, healthy beings which formed the Easts basis of what humans are capable of, that they don't just do because of lack. They behave, but they have Being also. Freud's analysis was that humans behave in order to have things that feed the ego and that is true, but we can also behave out of fullness of our Being.

Not in the way humans are. This is making a mountain of a molehill lol. I hope the quality of this thread won't be diluted to nit pick at every word and line. See the bigger picture, the nuance. Love.

Nice tone man, very inviting and pleasant. I never said they don't but see how it could come across to you that way. I said animals just live, and man lives but is conscious of his existence. Thats the difference. Animals feel emotion too, and if they evolved modes of expression like us they would surely also create music art poetry etc.

Yes, in the past men and women were paired off by force / arranged marriage. And more recently not by force but by mingling with each other, but it was done within smaller communities where their options were limited, and where women still relied on men for their livelihood so the incentive was there to pair off with a mate for security. Now women have security of their own ( the government and personal income ) more freedom which is great. The government loves it as it increases the tax base, the corporations love it for their stocks. But, women are attracted (by the mechanism of hypergamy) to stronger than themselves, it is hardwired. Which is why most women always want a man taller than themselves, they feel protected on a visceral level, although in the modern day they have no fear as we live in a safe environment, the base line experience of women is fear due to her biology and to seek out security. We must have empathy for them. As women can earn at the same level of more than men , the view men at their level or below as inferior in status or weaker, and therefore not a good mating choice. This is all subconscious of course. And so they don't parter up as easily because their standards are higher and not enough men meet those standards.

Seems you didn't enjoy the mundanity that is evolutionary biology, it can be cold. You mentioned those guys need to get out and socialise with women as human beings and feel a sense of love and nuance. What I talked about is exactly that. So what is it, stay hard and cold or the other extreme where men discard understanding of human nature and get lost in their version of love which is fantasy, and end up getting hurt and not know why by women. Or seeing life what it is, and then that beauty exists in that also. The reality of being human is we have a heart and emotion. Animals just live, human beings create music art and poetry. Something higher in us is alive, it is also alive in animals rocks plants but ever more in us.

@Emerald So we can't see the beauty of this existence? How should one look at the world, what makes us human? It seems not being able to see beauty in this creation is robotic just as much as the red pilled bro - science you said is robotic. Society has pedestalised sex, we are over saturated with it. We are over sexed and undersexed at the same time, and we all suffer from it. Men, in the way that they feel if it is valued to that height they must have it and when they don't they are in pain, and waste their lives away picking up. Women, to the caricature of women that is portrayed and the unrealistic standard put forth, and so girls mental health is sky rocketed since the advent of social media. All because sex sells, sells to our lowest animal drive which exists in us. Women pedestalised sex in the name of freedom, men in the name of a free show for the lowest part of themselves to enjoy it seems. Beauty and hotness differ. What is pedestalised is only hotness but women all have beauty and that is beyond the flesh. That beauty in women possess a complexity, a depth, a nuanced grace, that men can't put a finger on but feel. We can't put that wordless wonder into words. And so with man. The beauty of man is his devotion to a personal passion, a passion larger than himself and that includes her and this worlds well being. Hence why women love starving artists, musicians, dreamers and iconclasts. That sets them apart, just as a certain beauty in woman sets her apart from men. Beauty needs a witness, god wants a witness. We are that witness, we witness the beauty in each other, and let each other know I see you, I am here. Namaste.

These are not my words but from else where, found it interesting. I agree stage green and free love is where we are headed but isn't that a far off dream.. They somewhat tried it in the 70's with the free love movement and here we are today. Peoples consciousness hasn't evolved to that level and it takes a lot of time for our biological evolution to catch up to our cultural evolution. Biology is slow, culture is fast. Our biology will fight us, mens biology will fight us to mate with women bigger, much older than us, less fertile. Women's biology will fight them to not mate with weaker, smaller men who aren't confident or spiritually alive and strong either.

Thats okay, you said why spread nonsense but didn't think I was. Also get the impression you think I'm a red piller who has negative view on women but thats maybe just me projecting. That girl is one example, even girls who are on the surface religious have acted in ways which would shock. I have also come across high integrity women also who of course didn't. It is human nature, but we have two human natures, one of a lower and one of a higher self which I commented on earlier ''we live between the two worlds, the world of the beast (our animal/darwinian nature) and that of the Bhudda, our higher nature to which we are all evolving towards. We are life incarnate (carnal - from flesh) in form and thats exactly the point, we are in flesh also. Man is animal, but animal is not all that he is '' that is what this is all about. We have the possibility in all of us for these behaviour we deem 'bad' which is just the animal in us acting out, its in me and all of us on this forum. But we have conscious and moral agency to not act on our animal instinct. The trigger is there, do we pull that trigger or allow the environment to pull that trigger is the question. Move from compulsion to consciousness, from instinct to intelligence. I see human nature what it is, and also see it for what it could be when lived from a higher plane. And they are both beautiful. I absolutely love women and love love. They say men created the world, but women created the very life that created that very world. In fact maybe man has felt inferior to women over the eons for she created the highest form, life itself. When a loving couple looks each other in the eyes, the higher self, the spirit behind the eye calls the spirit in the other eye, higher to itself, to a higher place. Woman is one of the greatest manifestations of beauty on this planet, her curves the greatest creation of god, her smile the greatest inspiration ( put in spirit ). Beauty of women physical and non physical invokes man to something higher. I don't think thats a distorted view