zazen

''We're being told that Israel needs to kill civilians by the thousands to eliminate Hamas, because Hamas must be destroyed to achieve a lasting peace. Every part of this is transparently false. Firstly the premise that Hamas must be eliminated to achieve peace is fallacious; peace can be achieved by eliminating the abuses and righting the wrongs which gave rise to Hamas in the first place. There's no rational reason to believe Hamas would continue to exist in its current iteration or keep waging violent resistance if the theft and injustice from 1948 onward were rolled back, refugees had the right to return, apartheid abuses were ended, and people were no longer kept in a giant concentration camp where they are deprived of basic human needs. Secondly the premise that you can bomb people into accepting an abusive status quo is self-evidently absurd. Even if Israel kills every single member of Hamas, there will be hundreds of thousands of survivors of this onslaught who see the depravity of Israel and refuse to accept it. You think all these orphaned boys and all these men who saw their loved ones ripped apart by military explosives are just going to be cool with the status quo from here on out? Of course not. And Israel knows this, which is why its preferred solution is to kick all survivors of this onslaught out of Gaza and into refugee camps in the Sinai desert. It knows that nothing it's doing will actually work and it refuses to make the reparations that will work, so its only other option is the elimination of Gazans one way or the other. Ethnic cleansing and mass displacement is not "peace" by any stretch of the imagination, but it might allow Israel to keep its abusive status quo intact. Those are Israel's only real options for sustainable stability: either right all the wrongs which led to this, or go the opposite direction and inflict far more wrongs to answer the Palestinian question once and for all. It's pretty clear watching all this that Israel has opted for the latter.''

@Karmadhi The gulf have trillions worth of assets that could be seized by the West in retaliation. Also, the gulf aren't strong enough to take on Iran who they fear could turn hostile if they don't have security guarantees of the US. This is why Israel/Gaza is mostly Turkey and Irans fight to bear via Hezbollah and ancillary support from other Muslim countries via supplies, but never a direct boots on the ground confrontation.

@something_else Very well said. ''Israeli policies created Hamas in the "Those who make peaceful revolution impossible will make violent revolution inevitable" sense. If you stomp out every possible peaceful avenue of resistance, naturally you’re going to see the rise of factions which favor violent resistance. One of the most formative experiences in understanding this conflict happened in 2018 when Israeli soldiers fired on protesters with sniper rifles and live ammo. B’Tselem explicitly denounced this as unlawful. There’s nothing that could possibly make such a thing okay, and it was a very clear illustration of the way Israel has cut Palestinians off from all the normal pathways toward peaceful resolution. The Hamas attack will ultimately be a net negative for Palestinians. The reason pro Palestinians are perplexed at times and feel fuzzy to in good conscience “condemn Hamas” is probably because nobody can articulate a positive direction that Palestinians should be taking. The fact that all peaceful avenues of resistance have been cut off is not the fault of the Palestinians, and it’s not the fault of Hamas. It’s the fault of the Israeli government. Hamas is just what you get when you create an intolerably abusive apartheid state which keeps millions of people in a concentration camp whose inhabitants are cut off from basic human needs. Hamas isn’t the disease, it’s a symptom of the disease. The disease is an apartheid settler-colonialist project which cannot exist without endless violence, warfare and abuse.''

Turkey and Iran are the only Muslim players in the region with some actual teeth to fight. The gulf countries can only act through diplomatic means and possibly financial / energy - even that is messy for them as they have trillions worth of assets managed by Western funds who are sympathetic to Israel, that money could be frozen as happened with Russian money. Israel is not de-escalating and Bibi is saying a hard no to ceasefire - Hezbollah and Iran and to a lesser extent Turkey have given their red lines which are being crossed and now will have to act in order to not lose credibility / save face.

A video debunking that very video.

It wasn’t acceptable by any measure, morally or legally as it was against non-combatant civilians. No, but many from the Isreali government are conflating the two and calling for their extermination. The problem isn’t with Israel’s right to exist - it’s the form in which Israel currently exists being at the expense of the inhabitants of that land in which it needs to be shared with.

Chris Hedges : Think about that. A people, imprisoned in the world’s largest concentration camp for sixteen years, denied food, water, fuel and medicine, lacking an army, air force, navy, mechanized units, artillery, command and control and missile batteries, is being butchered and starved by one of the most advanced militaries on the planet, and they are the Nazis/terrorists? There is an historical analogy here. But it is not one that Bennett, Netanyahu or any other Israeli leader wants to acknowledge. When those who are occupied refuse to submit, when they continue to resist, we drop all pretense of our “civilizing” mission and unleash, as in Gaza, an orgy of destruction. We become drunk on violence. This violence makes us insane. We kill with reckless ferocity. We become the beasts we accuse the oppressed of being. We expose the lie of our vaunted moral superiority. We expose the fundamental truth about Western civilization — we are the most ruthless and efficient killers on the planet. This alone is why we dominate the “wretched of the earth.” It has nothing to do with democracy or freedom or liberty. These are rights we never intend to grant to the oppressed. “Honor, justice, compassion and freedom are ideas that have no converts,” Joseph Conrad, who wrote “Heart of Darkness,” reminds us. “There are only people, without knowing, understanding or feelings, who intoxicate themselves with words, repeat words, shout them out, imagining they believe them without believing in anything else but profit, personal advantage and their own satisfaction.” Genocide lies at the core of Western imperialism. It is not unique to Israel. It is not unique to the Nazis. It is the building block of Western domination.

@Lila9 Ariel Kallner, a member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Likud party, explained Israel’s goal behind the Gaza war. “Right now, one goal: Nakba! A Nakba that will overshadow the Nakba of 1948,” he said. The same sentiment was conveyed by Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant, the man responsible for translating Israel’s declaration of war into an action plan: “We are fighting human animals and we will act accordingly,” he said on October 9. Tutsis are cockroaches. We will kill you.” Arabs are like “drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” The first quote was a line repeated frequently by the Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines, a Rwandan radio station, which is largely blamed for inciting hatred towards the Tutsi people. The second is by former Israeli army Chief-of-Staff Gen. Rafael Eitan in 1983, speaking at an Israeli parliament’s committee. Rwanda’s hate-filled radio station operated for only one year (1993-94), yet the outcome of its incitement resulted in one of the saddest and most tragic episodes in modern human history: the genocide of the Tutsis. Compare “Radio Genocide” to the massive Israeli-U.S.-Western propaganda, dehumanizing Palestinians almost with identical language to that used by Hutus’ media.

When highly emotional peoples reasoning is disputed they often perceive this as invalidating their emotions. The deprivation of their “right to feel” because their opinion and its hasty conclusion is often founded upon an instinct or feeling rather than a deduction or investigation. @hundreth By law, people under occupation have the right to armed resistance which is denied to Palestinians but their are no rights for Israel to be doing things the way they are. Doesn't the Palestinian cause stand for much more than the isolated event of the Hamas attack? Of course they can't kill that many because it would cause the escalation of other fronts opening up and world wide condemnation and their biggest backer (US) pulling away. The slow, steady inhumane treatment of Palestinians to weaken them in every way through control is crippling in a way that isn't as evident and flagrant as the current operation.

@Nivsch @PurpleTree @hundreth @Vrubel What would you guys define as terrorism? And to follow up from that, do you condemn that terrorism? The global standard definition of terrorist is: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims. If you are logically consistent, can you not see that terrorism can be committed by a individual, organisation or a state - it is only a matter of degree and scale, and that Israel commits terrorist acts. That of course doesn't call for the extermination of the actor as a whole (Israel or a organisation) but rather an extermination of the conditions that would terrorise a person or a country into terrorist actions. You critique the behaviours and actions, not the being itself to be put out of existence.

Yes exactly, it is easier to judge and discern a situation when emotions aren't as heavily involved. Emotion has its way of consuming people - there is not just a fog of war but the fog of emotion within a war that blinds you.

Yes, Hamas - not Palestinians. But why is it that Hamas is a terrorist organisation but Israel isn't a terrorist state. Why isn't there logical consistency. What is your definition of terrorism and do you condemn it in any of its forms whether it be by an individual, organisation or at a state level?

Israel does not follow the rules of engagement set out internationally. People can condemn and see the actions of Hamas as evil but its shocking how they can be complete Israel apologists, uncritical and hypocritical when it comes to Israels actions.

Israelis have been heavily propagandised by their own government. Bibi and nationalist factions have instilled fear into the population by otherising a population and putting them into conditions which bring forth terrorist elements. Fear is a bad adviser, bias a bad interpreter.

That’s the mentality that causes the issue. Unjust actions are made just through divine legitimacy - whether Islamist, Zionist or evangelical Christian. Gods chosen people are above criticism, and anyone who does criticise is an anti-demote.

Do you condemn terrorism (going be the below googled definition) ? Definition: the unlawful use of violence and intimidation, especially against civilians, in the pursuit of political aims.

Genocide of innocents is within the realm of justice? If you take Hamas to represent all Gazans, then by your logic it could be taken that extremist Israeli politicians represent everyday Israelis. Their is no law for genocide or ‘defence’ through genocide - but there is law for an occupied people to resist even with arms. All countries have laws, most have the rule of law, and few are outlaws - Israel is one such case.

“War in the Middle East is inevitable because there’s not much time left for Israel to capitalize off of its privileged position in the Unipolar “Rules Based Order.” Israel was already being challenged internally by opponents of Netanyahu’s regime— & so there’s only international war crimes tribunals if a ceasefire is declared— there’s no reason for the Israeli State to draw down, as the long term prospects for the Zionist project diminish year by year. The hardliner Zionists believe themselves to be backed into a corner with its major defenders trending into domestic chaos, with a demographic shift radically against continual defense of the Zionist project. There will be no ceasefire because a ceasefire would mean the successful implementation of international law over a state that flagrantly flouters international law with the protection of the greatest flouter of international law, the United States. The only question is who else wants to go down with the ship. The only thing you can do as a Westerner is refuse to fight in or support any interference on the part of Western militaries into the chaos that is brewing. Israel is implementing its final solution. There cannot be a “deceleration” because the Israeli ruling class cannot allow itself to be tried in international courts for crimes against humanity. The only way the Israeli ruling class can avoid their fate is by turning this into a global conflict. They will probably succeed in doing so. “The West” (US + NATO) already declared War on the rest of the world. The rest of the world is just coming to realize that there is no peaceful alternative in consequence. Time’s running out for “The Rules Based Order”— & it is itself aware of this, which is why it has openly declared War upon the rest of the world. The only hope for the “West’s” global oligarchy is to bomb the rest of the world back into servile compliance with its hegemony. Russia proved that resistance is not futile, & so the rest of the world is becoming more capable every year of asserting its interests on the world stage. The War that is coming will be, perhaps, the worst one that the world has ever experienced— but when it is over, the Unipolar Oligarchy will be in the dustbin of history, & a new world will become possible.“

Some illuminating videos on the Israeli / Palestinian conflict. The two solutions (two state vs one state) seems to be hard to agree on as both have their flaws. Two state solution: If you connect the West Bank with Gaza in form of a corridor you cut Israel in two. Daily crossings increase the insecurity of both states as subversives and possible threats seep in. One state democratic solution: Palestinians demographically will be or end up being a majority to which Israeli's could feel threatened or will not allow to happen. Possible third solution: Two states but connect West Bank and Gaza via a highway as to not split Israel in two and avoid daily border crossings between states and the insecurity that comes with it.

As in spiral dynamics, stages of development are just that - a development. Not an imposition from others who have developed to that stage. Although, spiral stages are themselves in a hierarchy of their own so its natural to view a stage red society as inferior, but a mistake nonetheless. Other cultures shouldn't be interfered in by imposing cultural ideas from their own cultural stage. That robs them of their growth process, and what is imposed will try to be disposed of in rebellion. Lower stage societies view the struggles the West is going through and deduce that they are better than them, which entrenches further to their own stage. Maybe once the West comes out the other side of its current growth process and looks a lot more solid they can then contemplate its merits and be incentivised to develop towards it. These two videos show the psychology and perspective of how more traditional conservative societies view themselves as superior - in this case particularly from an Islamic lens. What multiculturalism has done it seems is clashed different perspectives, values and stages of growth towards each other in a pressure cooker. Each questioning the others validity, assumptions and way of life which brings about the current confusion, cognitive dissonance and identity crisis. Out of this friction evolution could bring us to our supreme identity which integrates them all together, but thats a lengthy and tumultuous process. Quotes on multiculturalism from Ken Wilber ''Multiculturalism is a noble, logocentric, and rational endeavour that simply misidentifies its own stance and claims to be not rational because some of the things it tolerates are not rational. But its own tolerance is rational through and through, and rightly so. Rationality is the only structure that will tolerate structures other than itself.'' ''The "multicultural movement," which claims a universal tolerance of all cultures freed from the "logocentric, rational-centric, Eurocentric" dominance and hegemony, is a step in the right direction, with all good intentions, but ends up being self-contradictory and finally hypocritical. It may claim to be "not rationalcentric," but in fact cultural tolerance is secured only by rationality as universal pluralism, by a capacity to mentally put yourself into the other person's shoes and then decide to honor or at least tolerate that viewpoint even if you don't agree with it. You, operating from a plural rationality might decide to tolerate the ideas of a mythic-believer; the problem is, they will not tolerate you – and, in fact, historically they would burn your tolerant tail at the stake in order to save your soul (whether your saviors be Christian, Marxist, Muslim,or Shinto).''

Israel can’t exists in its current form is what majority of people think, not that it shouldn’t exist at all. Elon Musk providing star link satellite connectivity to aid groups in Gaza and Israel throws a temper tantrum like a child not able to get what they want - complete blackout on its atrocities. “Israel will use all its means to prevent the use of Starlink satellites in Gaza“ Israel uses Palestinians as human shields - reported by an Israeli human rights group itself. https://www.btselem.org/topic/human_shields A lot of what passes for human shield in Gaza are just civilians in proximity due to it being one of the mostly densely populated places on earth.

“Israel Cut Off Gaza's Communications Because Murderers Don't Like Witnesses Israeli ground forces have ramped up activities in Gaza in what anonymous US officials are reportedly telling the press is a “rolling start” to the long-anticipated ground invasion. Israel has also concurrently crippled Gaza’s largest telecommunications service, which had been the enclave’s last remaining contact with the outside world after Israel knocked out all the others. Humanitarian organizations and mainstream press outlets now say they have lost communication with their contacts in Gaza in a level of information blackout we’re unaccustomed to seeing in modern times.” Caitlin Johnstone

Terrible night in Gaza with no connection - curious if Elon Musk will help with star link as he did with Ukraine? “Israel's motivation to launch a ground offensive into Gaza is driven by their humiliation caused by the Hamas offensive and is also driven by a desire for retribution. Fighting a war on this basis is not only a disaster for the Palestinian people but ultimately will led to the downfall of Israel, not least because the world is seeing how Israel has total disregard for civilian lives in Gaza leading to blatant war crimes. We are now at a major inflexion point because you can guarantee a resolution of the Palestinian question is now coming. Israel caused this by launching this offensive.” UN resolution for ceasefire had an overwhelming majority of countries in favour for it whilst Israel dismisses it - bad optics for Israel.

Conspiracies require a level of competence that are often lacking not only by the conspirers themselves, but by the many pawns needed across domains and fields to pull it off. What often looks like an orchestration of conspired events is usually opportunism. The powerful conspire after and around events rather than conspire events into existence.

With spiral dynamics its easy to believe that higher stage societies that are ‘developed’ are immune to visiting or being enveloped by ‘lower’ states of being. The human is still there with the whole buffet of emotions available to it. The structure of society doesn’t mean the content (human) within the structure is any different - human nature just manifests through the lens of that structure, in that tint of spiral dynamic colour. Just because a society is stage orange doesn't make it infallible or that you are guaranteed a win ie Taliban - Hezbollah and Hamas are much better equiped than Taliban. Israels Iron dome can only intercept 2000 at a time, Hezbolah have 150'000 rockets. They just need to over whelm the iron dome system with 2000 rockets, then can use precision missile wherever they wish in Israel. ''The Zulu army suffered anywhere from 1,000 to 3,000 killed. The battle was a decisive victory for the Zulus and caused the defeat of the first British invasion of Zululand. The British Army had suffered its worst defeat against an indigenous foe equipped with vastly inferior military technology.'' Also, the Israeli army are made up of mostly reservists. These aren't battle hardened individuals willing to confront an army of men in a tough terrain and hardened by their conditions, motivated to fight for freedom from those very hellish conditions they think Israel has put them in. Bibi seems to be dragging US and Nato into this to fight on his countries behalf and to entangle other powers into a proxy battle in the region. Hamas could probably be doing the same hoping Hezbollah will intervene and further possibly Iran. The extremes on both sides want more powerful players to do their fighting for them and their cause, fuelled by the military industrial complex and religious zeal of fulfilling prophecy only adding to it.