zazen

Part of spiral dynamics growth is integrating lower stages in a healthy manner - not to dismiss lower stage truths of reality and frame fact as purely mythic fiction to be tossed to the bin. We can critique other societies that practice tyrannical forms of patriarchy but dismissing patriarchy completely can prove to be an error. People who have an allergic reaction to religion and tradition as archaic backward domains because their stage green liberal can often overlook the very freedom and value they provide. Present society liberals deconstruct the construct they feel failed them - modernity. People feel disillusioned and will either drop all constructs for anarchic post modernism or revert back to tradition in a regressive way for some semblance of order and as a shortcut to thinking due to the over thinking moral relativism brings about. Exhaustion. Part of integrating the past stages is to see the value in them. The following is interesting in showing some value healthy patriarchy can provide women: “The absence of patriarchal protection is more barbaric than its presence as it allows immoral, dangerous and unviable long-term prospects to plunder women at the peak of their beauty and fertility, sometimes even monetising them. In matters of women you have to ask yourself: does this practice make it easier or harder for sociopaths to access and exploit them? It's a net good if it makes it harder, and a net evil if it makes easier - even if that comes at the price of some of the woman's freedom. Feminism maximises female liberty thereby minimising her security - it's much harder to take advantage of women, sexually use them and monetise them in a patriarchal conservative society where daughters have less autonomy but are more protected, than in one where fathers are stripped of all authority and the woman makes her own choices. If the feminist experiment has taught us anything, it's that women being more emotionally inclined fall prey to the predatory few amongst men. The major recurring theme of clown world, as is true of all spiritual battles between good and evil, is that of inversion. Just as a demon would turn the holy cross upside down to mock the trinity, these unholy ideologies reframe protectiveness as oppressiveness in the battle to reframe vice as virtue and virtue as vice, because if all forms of control can be destroyed - even those which are benevolent and protective and act as a check and balance on destructive behaviour, then chaos can reign, and when chaos reigns civilization comes undone.”

A lot of the reasons for poor mental health are also due to urbanisation and the atomisation and sedentary lifestyle that brings. Urban centres are more pricey so financial stress and longer work hours to keep up is another. Additionally the sex and the city lifestyle that freedom brings. A article on Feminism: “Feminism always oversteps its bounds and unravels the society in which it presents itself. It tilts towards seeking independence from men failing to see their interdependence with them. In the absence of men, women must become men to handle life’s harsher realities. First generation feminism is a honeymoon phase, the best of both, because you see increased liberty, but haven’t undone the institutions of tradition you rally against but continue to benefit from. In the 1st gen female workforce participation increases, but isn’t saturated. The average man can still take care of his family on a single wage. Men are still chivalrous. You’re less religious, but you haven’t forgone it entirely yet. You’re less chaste, but still possess shame. You don’t come from broken families, and your birth rate isn’t depressed yet. So you have a present mother, father and many siblings. But it will be your generation that deprives your kids of the stability your parents gave you, because you will ignore their wisdom to be modern and free. Things they endured and tolerated and stayed together through and didn’t divorce over, you will divorce over. The familial social ties that regulate and serve to preserve marriages will disintegrate, as everybody becomes less religious, more promiscuous, and more materialistic. The west has shown the path of feminism not once, but twice. First with Rome, and today, with the cultural state of Europe and the Anglosphere. It always leads to ruin. No sufficiently advanced society can elevate women at the expense of men without declining + destroying itself. The path of your society will not be any different. You will not stop at the first wave. You will not learn from our mistakes. You will make the same mistakes and follow the same process. It's only in your foolish hubris you believe you're special and it'll be different for you. I see feminism as women selling their granddaughters down the line. So that she may choose to work, her granddaughter will be forced to work. So that she may choose to study out of vanity, her granddaughter will be required to study to survive. Today's women's choices are tomorrow's women's obligations. I always cringe when they talk about "the women that paved the way" as if they built something rather than dismantled something. They tell you they gave you freedoms, but the real freedom was theirs, you have no choice. Older women have sold younger women down the line, so they could have it all in their youths, then packaged it to younger women as freeing them from the oppressive yokes they lived under. Even though women in their time were happier, less stressed and didn't work as much/at all. Feminism doesn’t remove obligation from women, it simply changes the set of obligations to ones which are less equitable. This isn’t to say I don’t understand female resentment towards poor male leadership and excessive tyranny. But feminism is a false panacea for such ailments. In truth, most issues of tyranny are issues of low development. Less developed men tend to govern more with violence. They are less interested in your opinion or leveraging your feelings to get you to cooperate. They would simply command you, and scare you into compliance. It’s this you resent. Some patriarchies are excessive, but the alternative is worse. Limiting women's freedom and sexuality is the price of civilization. No regulation = no civilization. What we really need is a better answer to leas developed male tyranny than feminism, because feminism is too destructive. The answer to bad men or ‘patriarchy’ isn’t the absence of men but the presence of good men.”

@hundreth I was responding tongue in cheek and reframing just to show the nuance of the situation - that it’s not as simple as good guy vs bad guy or children of light vs dark as Bibi says. I agree with your points.

What purpose would it be for. I’m assuming if Palestinians are throwing rocks etc from the mosque and its to disperse them and any conflict between the far right Orthodox Jews who come there also.

You love to take a sentence and think you’ve got to the bottom of the message. To get to the bottom line requires reading the whole page of text. Daddy Abi didn’t tell me, international 3rd party organisations did. If we can’t trust Hamas or Israel due to bias we can look to these institutions or are they all wrong too?

It’s not complicated to be against occupation and apartheid. What is complicated is how to dismantle it without threatening security - that threat intensifies with more blood spilt and homes demolished. Israel has made a one state solution impossible and have no intention of a two state solution as it’s literally written in the Likud party’s charter. “The right of the Jewish people to the land of Israel is eternal and indisputable and is linked with the right to security and peace; therefore, Judea and Samariawill not be handed to any foreign administration; between the Sea and the Jordan there will only be Israeli sovereignty.” - https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/original-party-platform-of-the-likud-party?utm_content=cmp-true When Israel uses from the river to the sea it’s about geographic sovereignty and freedom but when Palestinians use the slogan their genocidal terrorists. Why is it that one group are designated freedom fighters and a resistance and the other terrorist savages? Were the native Americans considered terrorists for resisting European settlers and later colonists and the new Americans? You can’t deny Palestinians a state via a two state solution and make it irrelevant by settler expansion, then subjugate a people to the point of bad blood and distrust which makes a one state solution also irrelevant as you’ve eroded the trust and fostered terrorism through decades of occupation and oppression. People saying they stand with Palestine doesn’t mean they stand against Israel - more so they stand with the ending of oppression and apartheid on the Palestinians. It doesn’t mean the eradication of Israel necessarily or of genociding Israelis. The same heart that wants the Jewish people to have a safe homeland, is the same heart that will feel it unjustified to expel and oppress the natives of that homeland to which they go. The only way in which the current treatment and way of life the Palestinians live can seem okay or justified is if one views them as inferior - a colonialist mindset which unfortunately still remains till today - a remanent of the civilise the savages mindset.

You end Hamas by ending their cause. Cut them off from their cause that is a resistance to a structure of oppression and occupation with factions of Islamist and political power hungry opportunists jumping on for the ride. Hamas use the resistance movement the same way bankers use social sentiments of environmental and social causes to drive the ESG movement which perpetuate their power and profits.

Israel created the barbaric violence of October 7th, in the same way it created the violence that will with absolute certainty come its way in retaliation for its actions in Gaza today. The official narrative makers always try to restart history at the moment of the last act of violence from Palestinians, because it is only by framing such violence as unprovoked that they can legitimize the idea that it’s possible to bomb a population into submission and obedience. But of course, it is not possible to bomb a population into submission and obedience. Every atrocity you inflict upon them will only increase their desire for revenge — a desire Israelis should sympathize with since it has consumed them and turned them into crazed genocide cheerleaders since October 7. But their desire for vengeance is only made possible by the false mainstream narrative that the attack came from nowhere, completely unprovoked. The actual crime that Palestinians are being punished for is refusal to submit. That’s all this conflict has ever been, from the very beginning. Palestinians refused to accept being thrown off their land and killed and forcibly displaced at the creation of the Israeli state in 1948, and that refusal has seen them hammered with tremendous amounts of violence and oppression from year to year and from decade to decade under the premise that it’s possible to bomb and tyrannize a population into obedience. Nothing will radicalize you toward violence faster than seeing your neighbors and loved ones ripped apart by military explosives supplied by a globe-spanning empire. Nothing will ensure further violent resistance more certainly than murdering Palestinian children by the thousands in plain view of everyone. Which means that nothing but restitution, reparations and return of land to the Palestinians will end this nightmare once and for all. - Caitlin Johnstone Did you know that since the United States brought its “war on terror” to Africa, terrorist attacks on that continent have increased by 75,000 percent? That’s right: 75, then three zeros, percent. I learned this neat little stat from a new article by journalist Nick Turse, who also notes that “according to the Pentagon, terrorist attacks in the Sahel region alone have resulted in 9,818 deaths — a 42,500% increase.” People have been documenting the way attempts to bomb terrorism out of existence actually creates more terrorism for many years. In 2010 Professor Robert A Pape wrote an article for Foreign Policy titled “It’s the Occupation, Stupid” about his study with University of Chicago which found that suicide bombings are the result not of Islamic fundamentalism but of foreign military occupations. Some notable excerpts: “More than 95 percent of all suicide attacks are in response to foreign occupation.” “As the United States has occupied Afghanistan and Iraq, which have a combined population of about 60 million, total suicide attacks worldwide have risen dramatically — from about 300 from 1980 to 2003, to 1,800 from 2004 to 2009.” “Over 90 percent of suicide attacks worldwide are now anti-American.” “Each month, there are more suicide terrorists trying to kill Americans and their allies in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other Muslim countries than in all the years before 2001 combined. From 1980 to 2003, there were 343 suicide attacks around the world, and at most 10 percent were anti-American inspired. Since 2004, there have been more than 2,000, over 91 percent against U.S. and allied forces in Afghanistan, Iraq, and other countries.”

Same logic applied to dating would be for a incel to say its not like women were fond of him so might as well become misogynist which will only make them hate him further. The reality is that Israel put the Palestinian people in an impossible position. Of course they needed a strong retaliation. You can't turn the other cheek at decades of oppression and abuse by the Israeli regime, till you no longer have a cheek. The Middle East is no picnic - exactly why they will not stop resisting occupation and settlement expansion as to not invite more of it. This further is fueled by Islam, which is peaceful for the most part but isn't a pacifist religion either. Likewise, Israel do not want to deal with Hezbollah after failing to defeat them. So now that Hamas has responded, as it always was going to - you have to take the best of the worst options. That is what is happening, the resistance of occupation.Hopefully something good comes of it. Is there any guarantee? Of course not. We'll see what happens. Step 1: Destroy nations and displace tens of millions of people. Step 2: Wait for some of those people to hate you and want to fight back. Step 3: Use their desire to fight back as justification to repeat Step 1.

As we love color coding people so much what stage of development is this below: Israel is a nation and like many nations identifying too much with nationalism can be suffocating, limiting, divisive. We can respect a nation, but no people should live under oppressive apartheid like conditions. I don't like the fact that there is state terrorism whether it be Western or Eastern. Scary to live in such a world. There’s no better way to make people want to attack you in whatever way they can than bombing their neighborhoods, killing and displacing their loved ones, and dominating them with an oppressive military occupation. All of which Israel has been doing to the Palestinians for generations.

@Nabd Well said. National consciousness wasn’t a thing till Europeans brought it about. Even when the Brits left Africa they drew borders in and between tribal lands which caused much chaos, confusion and infighting over resources. Palestinians may have not had a nation yet they had a land - the lack of a nation state with a flag doesn’t justify the expulsion and establishment of a nation state with a flag by an outside group. Especially if that nation state is in the name of a minority of that land ie Jewish. By that logic the massacring of native Indians to establish America was justified - because they didn’t formally have a state with a flag inked in worded documents. Legal doesn’t always mean right. Native American tribes engaged in conflicts with European settlers and later with the United States as westward expansion occurred. Were they terrorists? Everything the Palestinians do can be framed as aggressive if people omit the base fact that they are occupied.

It is sad how they had to just leave their homes. The tension and persecution was in reaction to Israel forming and the nakba taking place - didn't happen in a vacuum. Israel performed operation magic carpet in 1948 air lifting as many Jews to Israel. Wonder what she did..

In-fighting at daily wire between Candace Owens and Ben Shapiro. Interesting to see even Candace speaking out. France, Canada, Belgium and just today Spain's PM ''urged Israel to end the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians”. Narcissism doesn't listen to even its own allies and friends of its flaws.

Resistance can become terrorism but it isn't always terrorism. Supporting Palestinians does't make you a terrorist or Hamas supporter either. You can't say things that go against the interest of the war machine - such as calling for ceasefire. Disapprove of the Iraq invasion, and you're called a Saddam supporter. Speak against US proxy warfare in Ukraine, and you're branded a Putin fan. It's a verbal magician's trick – criticize the war machine, and you're instantly accused of siding with the opposing team of 'bad guys'. This playbook persists with every high-profile US intervention, drowning out dissenting voices with negatively charged labels. This isn't occasional, it's the consistent script for every US intervention. The message? Criticizing the powerful war machine is treated as treason. Those using terms like "Hamas lover" or ''terrorist sympathizer'' are essentially saying, "Never question the juggernaut that is the military-industrial complex. Silence yourself and obey the narrative.

The war of jihaduments vs linguistic jew-jitsu. *joking*

Frivolous use of labels like anti-semite, islamaphobe or racist cheapen them. Emotional and egotistical people personalize talking points that aren't intended to be personal. They then use labels as verbal shields against rational critique. The one being accused of those negative labels runs to defend them self against it which diverts them away from their original point.

A prophet is usually never a prophet in his own time, religion is founded after their time. A mystic touches the essence, but a master is able to articulate that essence. Mystics know but know not how to transmit what they know. Both experience the sweetness of realization but only one is able to articulate it. Both have blossomed but only one can share the fragrance. Masters, master the art of bringing you to the same state of knowing. The structure of a religion doesn't always indicate the state of being of the founder of that religion. The hope of religion is that it will bring about the same state of essential realization as the one who started it, but that essence gets lost in the establishment created around that essence, in the external structure and minutia.

This thread is losing the needle with the racism from both sides. The tide is turning even among Isreals allies - France, Belgium and now Canada speaking of constraint. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/11/15/netanyahu-blasts-trudeau-after-he-says-israels-killing-of-babies-must-end “The world is witnessing this killing of women, of children, of babies. This has to stop,” - Trudeau Usually the criminality of US allies gets ignored, downplayed and frantically obfuscated, while the criminality of US enemies gets spotlighted, exaggerated, and pushed to the forefront of international attention. But the in your face double standards on full display on the world stage is too much and too obvious that even the West seems to be changing its tone.

Good post I agree with but hadn’t the time to properly respond. That’s exactly right, the best contribution to peace are good conditions and economic prospects which is why many opposed the siege and blockade as it thwarts economic development. The common argument against that is that they could use that wealth for terrorism. South Africa’s apartheid ended and they seemed to have lived peacefully for now. If both sides can get to a position of a decent amount of economic prosperity and that are interdependent on each other then I assume Hamas wouldn’t have much reason to exist. Much like Europe after world war becoming economically intertwined to be incentivised to cooperate and not ruin a good thing - prosperity. I think Saudi normalising ties with Israel and sidelining the Palestinian issue was taken as a stab in the back and Hamas couldn’t let that happen as you said.

@lina That's so sad. I think it serves a purpose to display the extremes on both sides - not to play whataboutism but to open everyone to their own bias's.

That's the issue, its a grassroots resistance with terrorist factions and tactics being used. With a grassroots movement if you cut the grass more grows because the core cause is not being treated. Unless complete destruction is unleashed and the soil destroyed, but that would mean genocide of innocents. That's what Israels periodic operations were called - 'mowing the lawn/grass'. Not total destruction (genocide) but keeping Hamas and any resistance in check every few years or so in a cycle that will never actually end. Different interests benefited from this. Politically always having a enemy to unify the people against and playing the strong savior which Bibi did, militarily industry obviously - they even call Gaza 'the lab' where they would test the latest military tech to sell to the world - a big chunk of Israels economy. https://www.versobooks.com/en-gb/products/2684-the-palestine-laboratory https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/mow-lawn-israel’s-strategy-perpetual-war-palestinians-185775

Like Elon Musk said you can't try to get rid of Hamas in a way that only recruit more people to it ie militarily unless you genocide the whole population - even if they are ethnically displaced into Egypt or wherever, they will only plot their return and revenge from further away. If Israel or any countries safety requires the occupation, imprisonment and oppression of a people, you don't have safety and never will. History has shown us this by the dismantling of the colonial powers. If the return of Jews to the land was through immigration that's one thing, but to take the land off people already there is another and is bound to be resisted. The good intentions of Jews and Jewish sympathizers who sought to have them be somewhere safe was hijacked by a colonial nationalist mindset which was present at the time. The cause and sentiment of return and a safe haven is fine, but the strategy and way in which it was and is being done isn't. Everything that colonial power gains will be inherently violent and must be upheld through violence - that violence will be justified through ideas of superiority and the idea that those you oppress must be more violent and oppressive than you. And when that oppression is resisted and eventually violently resisted, that violence will be used to feed the fear needed to maintain the oppressive structure / apartheid state, a cycle set in motion by the colonizers and which frames the colonized as the undeveloped violent ones that need be tamed in a modern world. The key thing that needs ending is the occupation, oppression and apartheid state. The solution is either a one secular state that is equal or a two state solution but a proper two state solution which allows Palestinians control of its borders - not a state like in West Bank where Israel control their lives more and more without dignity. The two state solution carrot has been dangled in front of the Palestinians for years and all this time Israel has been allowing settlements to encroach the land of West Bank - knowing that this will eventually make it almost impossible because you'd have to remove over 500'000 settlers. Ariel Sharon became minister for Agriculture in 1977 and promoted a settlement program for West Bank and Gaza. And now Tony Blair is reportedly being installed as a humanitarian coordinator in Gaza. He is a patron of JNF with Netenyahu which is the largest settlement building organisation. It's clear that they don't want a two state solution, they want all the land and feel entitled to it. Just take a look at the foundation first prime minister of Israel: “We must expel Arabs and take their place. Up to now, all our aspirations have been based on an assumption – one that has been vindicated throughout our activities in the country – that there is enough room in the land for the Arabs and ourselves. But if we are compelled to use force – not in order to dispossess the Arabs of the Negev or Transjordan, but in order to guarantee our right to settle there – our force will enable us to do so.” - Ben Gurion Source: https://www.jewishvoiceforpeace.org/2013/04/06/the-ben-gurion-letter/ The problem is easier to see, but the solution harder to get to unfortunately. Both sides need new and less radical leadership and both peoples need to transmute their traumas rather than become terrorized by them and perpetuate the cycle of trauma and distrust.

Islamist's are violent because human nature can be violent. The mature view is that humans are like Russian dolls that have a beast deep down within that can be visited. That can take expression through any culture, context or on any continent. Nature doesn't change, the lens through which it unfolds does. Every idea can become a ideology which can ferment extremist strains of itself. Muslims have done bad and so have other peoples. Just look at world war 1 and 2, communism, the holocaust and the crusades not to mention the regime change and war on terror at the hands of US empire - none of that was done by muslims. The only regime that needs changing is the one that goes around changing and toppling countries and societies. And now we are in a chicken or the egg situation where terrorist extremist elements have been created not only from grassroots as a resistance but top down funded by Western agencies (including Hamas by Bibi) and we point fingers to show how undeveloped and violent certain kind of people are. But is it that they are so or that circumstances made them so.

Doomed ideaologies like hindutva, zionism and white nationalism are basically kicking against the sunrise, they are in their death throes, they are flailing against their own inevitable demise and the closer they get to the end the more panicked they get, the more desperate they get and that makes them become more violent,they're lashing out because they're dying out.''