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@Logan Thing is that the more I work around and engage with a specific idea, quote, paragraph, (basically, the more I analyze them) the more I get stuck in my head, become ocd and try to perfect it and neurosis kicks in. I need it to be quick and simple. That's why the technique that most resonated with me is speed-reading and highlighting. Although I still need to improve on that because I will get kind of ocd on this highlighting, and maybe I'm missing something by not taking notes (?)

@Eph75 I just came back from the trip. I must say it was one of the more neurotic trips I've been to, but this is no surprise. In fact, almost every single trip with my family I was neurotic. They had a monumental impact on building my neurosis, and that's why I really don't like being with them. So it's just that I haven't been on a trip with my family for a long time which made it feel like the hard neurosis just kicked in all of a sudden, shaking me a bit. But since the last time I've been with them over-seas I've been getting into lot's of spiritual work, meditation, introspection.. This time what I had more was awareness of this neurosis. I see myself deeper. And thankfully, I have this forum for cases like that. Who knows where I'd be wandering like a slave in his own suffering with a newbie worldview. But yeah, I'm actually relieved I got back home. Time to get back into the spiritual work. Time to get back to reading

@Eph75 hmm.. I'll look more into introspection

@Marcel Yeah, this is exactly it. You don't want those at all because your thinking doesn't even entertain that idea, it has different priorities. When I imagine intimate relationships I also imagine long term and that idea turns me off. I just don't feel like this is right for me for where I am. If I'm really honest, I care for getting experience and having sex with different partners without having to be loyal to them. Maybe somewhere along this path it will lead me to want a girlfriend. It's all about discovering your most authentic self with baby steps. If you being the most authentic means you will have tons of sex, this doesn't mean to be resistant of it and hate that idea. The thing is that the moment you get there it you will feel actually very good. Remember, after all, it's your authentic self, and being authentic feels free and cool

This might be true for you, but take the possibility it is actually not true, that you can find excitement in those things. I can personally relate to what you said. I was very uninterested in relationships (still, to some degree) and sex. Now I'm interested in sex and relationship (not finding a partner, but more like friends). I could never imagine myself that I would be interested in those things. Basically it was a process of slowly slowly discovering my authentic self through meditation work. It was quite a surprise for me, but also not so. I was excited, yet it seemed kind of like it was always natural to me, just deeply suppressed as to even not consider it as a possibility. Continue with the work you're doing, your search for understanding, you curiousity, your meditation work. It might come back and actually help. Just keep going with the intention of becoming more authentic

So that's kind of what I'm doing. I'm trying not to fall into this neurosis. I still do, obviously, just told you about it what, like 3 days ago? And the longer I am in this neurosis, the stronger it gets, the more I suffer because of the discrepancy between desired reality and what is, perfectly said. So then how do I get out of this loop?

@Eph75 I don't know what to do though. For the last 2 days or so I've still been neurotic, but these times I was at least more honest with myself that it's me who's causing that problem and I also became more aware of this identity, me, which feels threatened and ocd. Maybe. You like to play the game because the game is fun rather than to win. You are you and you are participating in the action of doing something you love rather than having yourself dependent on the outcome. Correct me if I'm wrong, although it still probably not help me get there. I'm pursuing self actualization to escape the suffering because I don't want to suffer in life and I've been dealing with bad shit in my life. But also I'm quite curious to know what's out there. Ever since I was a very young boy I was very curious and was kinda spiritual in the sense I wanted to deepen my understanding, connect back to something, know something, but never knew what, back then... Now I'm starting to suffer less and connecting more to the curiousity I had as a child, becoming more of a child, although still have my own sufferings. Totally. I've been also noticing how much suppression occurred during the early stages of my development, now realizing more and more. I've been suppressing stuff because I still judge quitely quite a bit. I am thinking of doing a few Shamanic Breathing exercises when I come back and before I start camp. I also want to add that in general when I'm in a group and there's at least one leader, maybe even two or three, then I quickly close myself in (not managing to really open myself up). Sort of giving up and escaping. I'm really ocd about and neurotic about those. Also, I am starting to feel like I have a limit to my growth, at least currently. No matter how much I try to push myself to grow, there'll always be that one spot where I decide it's too much for me and I will back off by telling myself that I'm not ready yet and I need more training (spiritual work) to get over those fears and limitations. It's like I'm always on never ending missions I'm creating for myself, deluding myself.

@Matt23 Very interesting what you said. The goal is actually to get to this state of the things I described happening (like imagining my brother and father in front) and feeling secure and confident and self-loved. Yeah, I actually do feel quite crappy while being with the family because I'd rather spend that time being back home growing myself by myself without interference of family. I'm really scared of catching the virus there and being in isolation. I have 2 important parties I want to attend to which is way better than being stuck with family in Greece. Sorry, off topic. But how do I get to this state of simply not being bothered by such circumstances? It obviously doesn't work by just thinking about what you and Eph7 said. Evidently I did the opposite, forced myself to be in the state that I am, with an underlying dissatisfaction. I probably don't have any idea of what you guys are telling me, in the sense of how it feels like, experience-wise, since I'm still stuck where I am and my ideas about what you guys are telling me is quite false.

@Eph75 I got that you said that detachment is key (if I'm not mistaken). I am quite a lot in my mind with this deficiency need to be a leader, rather than just being. And when I believe to be Being actually it is a forced desire to be where I am, like you described in the beginning, in not a good place. But it is still hard not to think in terms of 'leader' and 'follower'. It's hard not to think about any terms. You need them for talking about them and becoming aware of them in order to want to become a leader I believe. Yeah so my brother is not really in his head, not the contemplative/thinking kind of person really. He is more easygoing and trying to find the fun in the experience. He really doesn't seem to be trying to be a leader, but rather engaging in the plans, thinking about what is being said, and making an offer/decision based on his own feel. You also talked about desires. How can a desire be a drive without including any emotional attachment to it? How does it work. Why shouldn't desire be an object to pursue, and instead just a phenomena to acknowledge? Won't it be most beneficial to go after the desire rather than suppressing it, or rather, letting go? Why desires are important, and what are their purpose? Could you elaborate on the last question?

@Leo Gura you said on a different thread that the only way you can become a billionaire is by stealing. You say billionaires a passionate about stealing or they're passionate about their thing and ignorant?

@Matt23 I like the idea you have of speed-reading and highlighting. I think it will work best for me. The chapters are like between 2-5 pages, so it's quite a hassle to take notes after each chapter. It's quite slow

@Eph75 Ok so let me understand. If I accept that following is ok then it will help get rid of neurotic thinking (that things should be differently, based on the idea that being a follower is not good, especially to people I don't want to feel behind), which will give me the space to think clearly, thus allowing myself to get involved and engaged in what's going on? But I can't be a follower for most of my life, it still sickens me a slight bit even if I try to approve of it. Eventually I want to be a leader. I won't consider my brother much of a leader as if he'd learnt it or something, but it seems he does have some skill like being part of the plans, also he plays video games and he leads his team, and also has a YouTube channel with almost 6k subscribers. Quite found his niche. Today I tried something new. So today I was focused on trying to be second in the row, I was like focused on the steps and all of those tiny things, really. Time wasted. My brother was just easy-ing through the walks, looking around and talking, and he naturally knew how to get to his spot. Ugh.. I had enough. I gave up. Maybe I sort of surrendered in this moment. Remembering Leo's most recent video, he talks about the importance of enjoying life by yourself for yourself without having to include others in your experience. I was following but I was trying to bask a bit in the mystery and magic of reality and got the feeling for a moment that I was enjoying it for myself. Trying to be the leader includes others in the equation, but once I took responsibility for this circuit of reward, I could get myself to feel more genuine happiness

Man I literally don't understand what you're saying, also on my other thread. Is it a joke? I can't understand then what you're saying, but I'm quite serious about understanding@blackchair

Leo's most recent video was quite amazing and made me think I should really be focusing on giving myself the rewards and own this system. From what I understood you can bask in your own solitude for raising inner fulfillment and so now you are detached from the rest of the activities in life because you know where you get your happiness from. Obviously I still have quite a bit to ingrain into my deep psyche to understand, but my main question is how can I raise my own fulfillment? @Leo Gura Is the method you suggested literally the "Do Nothing" technique? I want a simple way that I can raise this. Besides, by the time I manage to reap the fruit, I'll be suffering all the way. I think it could be better to address more short term solutions (while building the long term foundational).

When I get the flow of the reading it feels great and I'm just soaking in more and more, but then I always hit a point when I'm thinking to highlight since I haven't highlighted in a while or to highlight something profound that just caught my attention. The thing is that even getting stuck on just the profound this will draw my attention to contemplate it and distract me from soaking in the rest of the paragraph to get the overall sense of what it's trying to say. So should I keep myself from impulsively highlighting now and keep the flow and at the the end to highlight?

@Rinne Dude please stop with this. This is not even true. It's like saying to someone who's experiencing bad social anxiety to do massive exposure. Massive exposure is good for dissolving social anxiety but can harm you if your social anxiety is severe. Likewise, for me it's harder because I'm frocking ocd about reading. This has nothing to do with being a bitch.

@Leo Gura I'm reading "The Way Of The Superior Man" and the whole part talking about women is quite irrelevant as I am not really seeking a relationship (I came to understand attraction because I want to become a better man and have sex). I don't think a lot of what is said is relevant now to the moment for me, but I think it can give me a foundational understanding right now about the roles of masculinity and femininity so that it will help me later down the road (not that far future). So when I underlying I mostly find it insightful intellectual wise

Yesterday in the afternoon me and a couple of people went to the amusement park (we were 3 guys and 6 girls) which was quite nice. The purpose of that was so that me and my friend (or both) can practice our social skills and getting out there socializing. So basically I wasn't really happy all the time there and it was very hard for me to lead. It was like this one girl (I'll name her O) was leading the group, and she was also younger than all of us in like a year or two. It felt a bit shitty but alright. So now the night came and we decided to order pizza when we came back to the city, we met at the other friend's house, and things started taking a shift there. It was all nice and everything and we later went to the basement to have some fun and play games and shit. But then I felt really drained, like it just hit me. I was really frustrated that my friend (not the one that invited us to his house) was just killing it with O (they were playing billiard meanwhile). I felt so behind and I really envied his success. This is my better friend, the one with whom I talk about intimate topics like relationships and friendships kinda stuff. He didn't even read or watch anything about relationships. This guy was acting like such a man. He really made her laugh, he was acting quite dominant towards her, he was able to change moods to be also more serious and real, emotional. The reason it annoys me is because I just secretly feel I should have been better off: I am learning about this (watching videos and Leo's videos) I practice meditation (to ease my mind and connect more with my emotional side) I do exercise I am passionate about developing myself And without bragging, I'm quite attractive and muscular (I've been tolled that as well). So around that time I was just very tired already, and one of the girls just decided we should play an intimate game that we all sit in a circle and ask intimate questions. Now the weirdness is at its start and it will peak in the end. They asked "when was the last time you cried" and bro, the people seemed to be able to let go quite easily and get in touch with there feelings. How? How the fuck are they able to do it?? I swear to god I was super uncomfortable and very annoyed. THEY DON'T EVEN GO THROUGH THE HARD MEDITATION WORK THAT I PUT IN! Man how did this meditation help me? I felt dense, and super frustrated and dead inside that I can't let go my true feelings with other people. I don't care if they are 'less conscious' than me. They obviously seem to be doing much better. You might say 'but deep deep down they are suffering'. Dude, like, they might be having their own problems but they are just surprisingly better than me at being more open, letting go, mindful and they even don't put in the effort I put. Oh and also I said one thing and they all tolled me "how cute" after I said that I teared a bit from the beauty of nature. I felt like such a beta and worse. After this frustrating game, things took a very weird turn. They were starting to talk about kinkies and sexual stuff (we didn't even drink). It got to the point of all us taking this BDSM (shows you how much percent you are submissive, dominant, vanilla, slave and more in bed) test and Rice test (shows you how "pure" your mind is). I felt like such an innocent person and such a beta, low value person. Very bad feeling. The girls were sometimes laughing and even my friend a bit that I asked some questions that I didn't understand their meaning in such a blatant way and they seemed to laugh that I'm "innocent". After I finished those tests it was just so fucking weird to share results. At that time we were all out in the park already (the only boys are me and my friend, and he was far from us resting on a swing) and 2 of the girls were comparing answers with me and it was uncomfortable so I said to go to my friend so that I feel more comfortable that there's also a guy. On the way back home we went me, my friend and O. I purposely took the wrong turn and continued with them until my friend's house and then turned back to my house. I did this just so I could go just a little further out my comfort zone. They were quite killing it together and it was hard for me to feel included. Anyways, I came back very shitty back home, feel very beta and I'm really pissed off and frustrated from this fucking life. Putting all this FUCKING HARD WORK. Know one even cares as much as I do about self actualizing and those topics. I can't stand those people. I always seem to be behind everyone. Always. Once in my lifetime I want to feel like I'm the master of life with all the experience.

@Eph75 Alright man, back to the main topic - thanks for providing the value. I'll make sure to go over it again just before I leave to the next party/meeting I'll have

@Eph75 Man... Oh shit. This is not good. You're literally taking a gamble of whether you get out of it or not. That's scary not gonna lie. I can meditate my way until I reach the Truth but if I can't handle the suffering then I'm good as gone. I really don't want to get to that, but at the same time I have a feeling I might get to a suicidal point with this work (even if now I'm all calm, actually still in the 'high' of the cycle of life). Leo said in the video about the dark side-effect of meditation that you will have suicidal thoughts, for just a normal person, not talking about someone with mental illnesses like anxiety and depression disorders.

@mandyjw I am drawn to that book and it's pretty interesting. The problem is that I can't enjoy it because I'm focused on analyzing it and get ocd from what to highlight and get stuck on some new understanding that catches my attention. All this book analysis really cuts the flow of soaking in the information and understanding it. It's like reading a paragraph word by word, focusing on the meaning of each word, rather than reading a paragraph as a paragraph and focusing on the meaning/message of the entire paragraph. But then I get neurotic and try not to go too far reading if it's been a while since I underlined something. I've read the first part of the book (about what it means to be a man) and it almost feels wrong not to write about what I've learned. Yet since it's short term memory I don't remember on the spot everything I've read. Maybe I remember 1-3 things now out of like 10 or so.

@Gabith What's the problem with all of those? You'll need to feel frustration to grow, desire is a part of life and what moves you, I'm sure a girl will want you if you follow your purpose (or the things you really love). If you go for self-love you'll love others in a 'giving' manner, meaning you are complete and full because you're following your path, and so you'll share your love, without expecting something in return, because it feels good for you. It feels good to give and love, because you're giving from yourself to others, an expression of yourself. In this state you're grounded in yourself and adding value because you want. In the state of being a Nice Guy you are loving in a 'taking' manner, deficiency-driven. You are trying to leach value off of others. And even when you think you're loving, you're doing it only to get something from the other person like security, get validated, attention... THIS is what repels. I have a similar issue, mostly that I won't have friends for the rest of my life. Practice being in solitude and enjoy the aloneness, feeling into your nature without others with you to fill in a deficiency need of yours. It will surely be painful, but once you learn to love being with yourself you won't have this worry about having a girlfriend. It will turn from a need into a want, since you're good either way

@Eph75 Yeah this is pretty much what happens to me. I'm very good at catching myself getting lost, and as an instinct I tap out of it quickly (pushing it away quick) and sometimes I manage to catch and yet still let it be. Eventually the movement from thought to what's real around me is just something new catching my attention. Wait what? ? What do you mean? You confused me I'm really sorry to hear that. Man for some reason this is making me laugh a little ? What do you mean "or simply breaking down"? ? It's quite a big chance we're taking here, aren't we? Let's just gamble - we break free or we break down. Ok sorry for this rant, it's not funny. So if you amp the suffering then I guess you'll get more serious about meditation and you can potentially purify yourself more. It's like adding a heavy wait to your gym exercise - you either hurt yourself or you become stronger. It's how you use this suffering, isn't it? Honestly I haven't really felt suffering in a very long time. Maybe the last thing was my original topic for this thread (which isn't so huge compared to what I had to deal with before I even got on this forum, or just when I got here like half a year ago). I don't know if this is necessarily a good thing. I might be also trying to escape it. Thing is that I'm starting my camp in less than a month and I get really nervous each time they send a message in the group, reminding me of the fact that soon I'll live with those people 24/7 and come back home once in 2 weeks, for 6 months. I might really break down and I hope I'll be able to handle it. That's why I was getting kinda serious for doing meditation and consciousness work in this summer break.

I believe this is the end goal, after you transcend all of your purposes that you discover on your journey. It's the last thing that's left. I believe that to get there you need to keep following your heart. Oh shit, lol. Lmao I just gave myself an insight as well

@Flowerfaeiry I don't quite understand this, could you explain? I'm actually busy reading the book "The Way Of The Superior Man". Isn't it more masculine to be the one initiating the plans? A man could be focused on his mission, but when he decides to spend time with his woman then his expression of love and freedom are more powerful and his presence is strengthened, and from that state the man (which is more masculine obviously) should take the lead. Help me understand please