fopylo

@Nahm I mean, you gave me a task so I need to first get it conceptually to understand what you're even talking about. Once I get it then I can do it. It just makes sense to have instructions for then executing. I'll need you to then explain to me in more simple terms lol

@Nahm So basically you're saying that the way for me to deal with it is to feel this sadness seeing how they are wasting their lives? And by doing so, I'll be incentivized to change my state and perspective? But then how are they supposed to change?

@Nahm By them do you mean my thoughts or my parents? I am kind of sad thinking about the fact that they are going to lead miserable lives till the very end without them ever knowing a better way. How would you cope with such a situation? I'm sure not all your family is on the path to self actualization

@Nahm Yeah, I didn't quite understand

@Nahm Kind of vague, don't you think? ?

@Cireeric Very true. I feel very fortunate in that aspect, yet it feels like older people (who didn't start early) lost it

@Cireeric Exactly! I presume it is in the back of their heads all the time. Who will want to admit that? It sounds stupid and threatening. It means all those years have been for nothing. Tips here and there - sometimes I try to hint to my mom to stop eating junk food and that health is important. Nothing really changes though because I don't think she grasps the value of it. I tried to mention one time to my father that working on himself will help improve all other aspects of his life and tried to show him (without going deep into it) how they are connected, but I don't think he took it so seriously, at least not in practice. But yeah, I don't really talk to them and have no interest in having conversations with them and them interfering in my life

@integral It certainly seems that they will stay like that until they pass away (or at least, for a very long time). Isn't it funny to use the word "survive"? It's funny because it really feels like that. When I'm next to them I feel in danger. Telling them what they want to hear - although it will cause less conflict, I'm still giving my soul to their unconscious control and also I'll easily sway off my track. It is quite sad seeing how many people will live and then die without ever entering this journey

@integral Yeah, so my father has started (well, always here and there but more often now) exercising more, which is a good thing. My mother doesn't exercise though and she sucks the most energy out of me, like I'm trying almost to avoid her as if I'm in a forest trying to avoid danger

@Mosess Thanks for this kind reply They are certainly draining my energy and I must avoid them out of necessity almost. I can't ever imagine them asking me for advice, even if they do notice my growth. They'll probably relate it to luck, very shallow self improvement such as simply going to the gym and joining a group activity (not knowing the deeper work required behind it), or that it is just innate in me. They'll never humiliate themselves to ask from their son for advice, because what does he know already about life. So yeah, I will focus more of my energy on improving myself. I am also not able to talk to them much about self improving, god forbid talking about meditation and all those abstract concepts. I guess the time I always knew was on the horizon is finally coming, where I'll need to start cutting ties with my family. It's very hard though. Not because I really want them in my life, but because I rely pretty much a lot on them. They pay for my things, give me food, a house to live in, drive me, and they understand better how systems work in the country (laws and that)

@Nahm I can't really understand lol When I check for sensation then either there is ( since I'm conscious of it) or there isn't but because I'm not fully conscious

@Nahm Then I just don't understand why you have to mention this part for instance. Why do you say things are thoughts, also in your previous comment. Also, by taking the sensation off I don't exactly know whether I'm consciously taking it off or the sensation just naturally went away like any sensation

@Nahm The thing is that Leo is saying in the video things like "bring up to mind this one who is sitting here, who gets angry sometimes. Now give it you love". You could replace angry with lazy/anxious/has family problems (basically many neurotic aspects). So in some way I do need to bring to my mind the thought of those aspects in me so that I can really feel into them. However, like you said, I'll be focused on the thought and without realizing I might subtly conceptualize the feeling. There is no way that you can say that thought is so useless. Obviously we use our thoughts in many ways, such as communicating. You need thoughts to make decisions and plan your trajectory. I'll let you know once I removed the sensation, but what do you mean by "put sensation on the floor"?

@Tovius

So I've tried practicing it in the session that I've done today but I had 2 problems: 1. It was very hard for me to extract the fabric of 'love' from the sensations I felt (it didn't really feel high like love but I might have had very little bit of thoughts) 2. Even when I did manage to feel the love within the emotions it was very weak and I couldn't hold it for long. I feel that the best way for me to experience it is if I have a powerful loving scenario in my head (however it usually doesn't last for so long). So another powerful way is to rely on compassion and understanding to the different aspects of me, showing acceptance to those parts. But sometimes I get the feeling that I might be splitting myself into 2: one who is experiencing and one who is observing and showing compassion

@Tovius I mean, even if I don't attach thought, I can still feel a different feeling in my body for each one. by 'feeling into emotions' do you mean feeling the fabric of which emotions are made of? You mean you had to wait for a thought with a strong emotional charge to come to mind? I feel that creating those feelings by choice is better than waiting for fluke luck

@Tovius Thanks, however, I was talking more about this specific exercise. When Leo tells me to stir up a strong emotion of love, how do I start from there? It's not as if I'm in the moment feeling something very noticeable, in fact, I don't feel much

@ilkjnkh Yeah but this is what's very difficult. It almost feels neurotic in a sense - to force myself to feel love. I wish I could do it on autopilot

@CultivateLove Kind of paradoxical. The reason I need love is because I lack it, therefore I'm practicing self love. However, in order to start my engine I need some level of self love to start working with. And in order to get this start I need to practice self love... Apparently I'm not so developed as being able to see love everywhere. The fact is that I cannot simply see it. Once I have this feeling of love in place, I've learned that I have quite a good handle in spreading this love to certain aspects of myself and developing compassion to my neurosis

@CultivateLove And also it's not so easy to just think about a scenario that brought a strong feeling of love just like that. Also, it's not as if recycling this scenario in my mind each session will maintain it's love charge

@CultivateLove You mean to imagine just one scenario and then just feel the love from it and maintain it for the whole session? It eventually becomes weaker though.. (btw love your username ?)

So before I've came across actualized.org I've been learning a bit from some stage orange Youtubers and some books. But after having watched some of Leo's videos it almost feels like I automatically outgrew some of those advices with the ones Leo provided. However I don't know if it's the best thing, here are examples: You hear about building your identity and strengthening it by repeating affirmations - when we identify with something we create limitations and suffering You hear about motivating yourself by avoiding pain and being drawn to pleasure - "ego" stuff. It can't be very sustainable I guess You hear about the 6 needs for human fulfillment by Tony Robbins - Those are "requirements" you need to become fulfilled. It is still in the survival state You hear about hard self discipline and commitment to your results - It just causes you to be more neurotic and creates a deeper split within yourself. You are also attached to an outcome I could go on and on... But this creates quite a bit of confusion for me, it's like many paradoxes. Now I might be very wrong and getting everything messed up in my mind. I'm trying to somehow connect the dots between everything I'm learning and trying to find some higher truths. This gets me to fill more stuck. It is hard for me to accept all what Tony Robbins (and other success gurus) is saying and also what Leo is saying. Some of the things seem to contradict each other

@Waken It's hard because of all those resistances I've created because I'm always thirsty for the bigger picture and want to evolve to the highest stages possible. I feel like this is still a Stage Orange mentality I have which I feel is serving me both good and also not so good

@Elevated I mean, there is literally no other way to see the object. There is literally no seeing without light, so we can forget about this sense altogether without light. You could also go further and ask - well, maybe everything here is not real since it's an interpretation of the mind (sounds, visuals, touch)? Maybe those things don't even exist but our mind makes it look like it does? (it is hard for me to believe that). But then you can also ask "what if our minds are actually projecting to ourselves what is in fact real, and not just a mere interpretation? (and to take this question seriously). Even if the conversion is imperfect, how does it help? I mean, how can you experience what might be the real deal behind what the mind is capable of delivering? (We do it through the mind though). I get what you say about having cognitive biases which prevent you from opening your mind to understand things deeper, or to see the bigger picture. So if it will never be perfectly accurate, then what's the point in even talking about it? It's sounds kinda sad lol

@Elevated I understand what you said about Paris, but I can't really apply this metaphor to reality. From what I understood you say that all what I'm experiencing is not everything I can actually experience now? I was reading that like "ok I see, to dive into stage orange without giving it a meaning that I'm better than it, ok" and then you hit with the "while knowing it's all bullshit" haha, this is exactly the problem. It's hard for me to start a business or something like that because I feel like I understand higher things and that "I'm better". I know you can say to take only the important elements of stage orange, but I feel that in general I don't have so much passion for creating a business (in fact, a book publishing business - That's because I've lost passion to publish books on "low stage orange topics" forgive this way of saying but I'm trying to be honest). Don't you get also this weird feeling of diving into something you believe you've outgrown already?