Miguel1

Hahaahahah I raise my hand!

@LordFall Alright brother, it seems like everything I say will be turned around, and gaslighted by you. I can’t even answer your false accusations because you will just say that I am doing something wrong. I don’t see a reason to continue this conversation. I thank you for your effort and participation.

This right here is how a mature, sustainable relationship that is healthy and based on honesty is built. How many of you are capapble of such level dating of dating? How many of you can actually be this honest and vulnerable? How many of you are actually aware of the level of manipulation and projection you do when dating? I can tell from my experience of dating like this for the past 6 months: painful as fuck. Not a single girl is willing to be Nearly this open, honest and vulnerable. And I go on many dates. All the PUA dating advices we talk here come nowhere close to what real dating is. PUA is children’s game, albeit a practical one as men are so lonely it is better to get short term intimacy (that often leads to hurting the girl), than nothing. But this right here is the real adult, mature dating. If Leo were to make a guide on dating based on truth, it would probably resemble this a lot. And so, I would like to hear all the adults of the community commenting on this. @Emerald @Leo Gura @Natasha Tori Maru and others. I wonder how far away we are from this kind of dating? Probably 50 years at least. My dating ”results” is basically 0 because I try to practice this level of honesty and vulnerability as much as possible. Sometimes I get frustrated, put on my dark game, and pull a girl almost instantly. It is shockening and heartbreaking to know how unconscious humanity is. I am writing this in a hurry, will check errors and typos later.

PREACH brother. We talked on IG, but I am really gonna hone in on RAW authenticity there so I will naturally attract not only girls, but the RIGHT girls. Thank you for the post.

@LordFall How am I spiritual by-passing? After sleeping with over a hundred girls, been in monogamous relationships for 11 years in the past 13 (lots of sex) with very beautiful gfs. Why do you know more about me than I know? Perhaps this is the issue here? And finally, there’s absolutely zero chance you are not lying to the girls you are dating. I know all the PUA tricks and the way they lie to themselves so they can sleep at night, as I used to practice all of them.

@LordFall My bad. I have been very busy with work and haven’t had proper time to answer here. I don’t think I am defensive. I just don’t see eye to eye with you guys. In an ideal world, hopefully in the future when we are more conscious as a species, we can be open, honest and vulnerable with each other from the get go — the way Naftali Moses promotes. There is nothing to hide. You don’t need polices if humans were more conscious and mature. Similarly you don’t need to hide and play dating games if you were more conscious and mature. I am shocked this is so hard to grasp by you guys. All this talk on this thread is simply making me double down and triple down on real authenticity. I try to shred as much social games from my personality as possible. I want to be as real and honest from the get go as possible with the people I meet. What else is the point? - - - - - If I go out to pick up girls just purely for sex, then I will put on my seduction and PUA character on. But that’s just it. Just for sex. I do not expect anything genuine, real and long-lasting from it.

@Natasha Tori Maru It’s not that I think you are not coming in good faith. The issue is that since we don’t align in the fundamentals when it comes to this matter, asking such vague question like ”do you trust yourself?” just makes things more confusing. Do I come across as someone who has zero trust in himself?

Owen hasn’t been outside the US in decades. He cannot leave for legal reasons.

Yes, when you are young, then it’s alright and even recommended to fuck around and find out. But as you age and mature, you are no longer interested in that, and want to get straight to the point as soon as possible.

Where do you want to lead with this question? Of course I trust myself to a degree and in certain things. Nobody trusts themselves 100% of the time in everything.

Can we have an in-depth discussion about this? In my personal life, I have been fluctuating between these two. I grew up being programmed for monogamous. But at my peak PUA and hippie phase, I was all for polyamory as it fit my narrative and goals. Then studying Leo from 2020 onwards, I came to realize that polyamory for many is just spiritual by-passing, as it was for me too. Now at this point, I am back to being for monogamy but there are people like Teal that makes strong arguments for polyamory. I would love me a hard core ”die on this mountain” partner to develop a monogamous relationship with, like how Naftali Moses promotes. Yet my experience with girls + the arguments people like Teal makes, makes me contemplate polyamory again too. But obviously this time from a place of maturity, as teal puts it. What do you guys think? What are you more for? What are the pros and cons? What are some less obvious reason for and against?

Owen outside of US? That’s a first.

MATCHA. Help.

@Lyubov Lots of narcissists and people with more serious mental issues, that are good at hiding them and may not even know themselves, unless you know what you are doing.

Of course there is no guarantees in life but if you marry a psychopath, then you are just dumb. Likewise, if you marry a lier, an unconscious immature person, someone who hasn’t faced themselves and cannot be vulnerable, then you cannot expect too much.

@Natasha Tori Maru Yes, there is a clear disagreement between us. Either it is misunderstanding or real, but we definitely don’t see eye to eye right now. Relationships at my age is no children’s game. I could fuck around and find out in my 20s but right now it needs to be pretty strong from the get go for it to be worth investing in it.

@Lyubov Of course all of those are done. That’s a given. What it leads to is this thread. We are talking in circles.

The issue is I care about wasting time with the wrong person. Whenever I am in a relationship, I care deeply about the person, and so naturally I invest a ton of time and energy into it. If the person then ends up cheating or breaking up for some silly reason, because they ”fell out of fantasy / love”, it is a huge waste. I have become very strongly allergic to wasting my time in relationships, as I’ve done it so many times. I’ve learned many lessons don’t get me wrong (and very appreciative) but this is definitely one of the big ones. Besides, if you want babies, you do have a time limit. Even for men — and the worst part is that you cannot really afford to have kids with the wrong person, as it will ruin your and the baby’s life.

The dating space lacks integrity, honesty and vulnerability so badly that I am considering going back to my peak PUA phase and just spinning 10 girls for my own needs, treating them all as such: good for little bit of fun and intimacy but that’s it. Especially now as I feel like I have properly moved on from my ex partner, and no longer have that same longing for a partner. Ideally I would find one girl to build a healthy and sustainable relationship with for the rest of my life here on Earth. But how the fuck?

@Natasha Tori Maru Are you looking to date seriously? If yes, how do you go about it, making sure it actually is healthy and sustainable, and based on truth and honesty as early as possible? How do you make sure you don’t waste a ton of time with the wrong person?

Hip hop dance and dance battles

@MarkKol You miss the point completely. The point is that 99%+ people havent done the work, and are stuck in their survival ego, thus are not capable of real intimacy, vulnerability and love — but just uses the other for their own unconscious survival agendas, whether it is something gross like financial or someting sublte like trauma.

Yes, that’s the point. And that’s what conscious dating in the future should look like. Naftali is no perfect by any means, but at least he is pushing radical honesty dating, from the get go. And he is doing it very loudly.

@LordFall Of course both are important, that goes without saying. Without human survival, there is no human spirituality and deep connection. As always, you are deep in your orange pursuits, so you will rationalize anything for your favour.

Superficial dating strategy vs Depth Notice that superficial dating strategy is very survival orientated. Very shallow and not sustainable, as there will always be someone who can provide better survival goodies. She represents the ego in dating very strongly. This is an interesting conversation as it’s not two ”spiritual / integrated” people talking, so there’s a lot of conflict, and Naftali cannot have his way too easily, like he tends to have due to his strong frame. Notice how the ego uses higher conscious qualities like integrity and hard-working to rationalize in its favour.