Water by the River
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Posts posted by Water by the River
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44 minutes ago, Razard86 said:Now with that said... I also made a thread saying I endeavor to be more calm (See my Contradiction: I Just Discovered My Delusion)....and let's just say I am failing miserably on that front!!! LOL. Why? Because for some reason I am finding this aggressive responses fun!!
Nice. Lets see if the resolution concerning staying calm works. Good luck!
>Why? Because for some reason I am finding this aggressive responses fun!!
Who would have thought...
Ever thought about who/what finds aggresive responses fun?
all the best
Selling Water by the River
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A nice post from Frank Yang on Bernadette Roberts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernadette_Roberts ).
https://www.instagram.com/p/CsJMKS6uNZf/
True No-Self is not the No-Self of no Ego, or No-Person, not even the No-Self of the Unitive States, or "being" a Nondual/Unitive Infinite (mere appearance) Field (that still contains an awareness (a separate self with individuality is having, subject) of an infinite empty nondual field ("object"), for example induced temporarily by psychedelics).
True No-Self is the final death (or transcendece) of any form of the separate self, crossing over to Infinite Fully Empty Impersonal Nothingness/Consciousness, or Full Enlightenment.
"There is a reality. We are that reality. When you understand this, you see that you are nothing, and being nothing, you are everything. That is all". - Kalu Rinpoche
True No-Self can not be understood before fully waking up, before Great or Final Enlightenment, where any reamaining separate self fully dies/gets transcended, Infinite Impersonal Consciousness unseparable of its appearances arising within in. That last deep identity change is not gradual, but sudden. Unexpected. And has nothing beyond it.
The dropping of the separate self can not (by definition) be imagined or understood before it finally happening, see the yellow markings above.
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Because who would do the imagining? A separate self (in whatever version). Which has to be gone to fully wake up. So the separate self can't do the imagining how it "would be like" to be gone. It is the "thing" doing/being the imagining.
- "Incapable of conceiving its own non existence", see text above.
When one walks down the unitive states road to the end, boosted by Psychedelics, one can end up with forms of solipsism, and even further with an Infinity of Gods. A confusion of that with the Absolute, or Fully Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, certain separate self aspects still left untranscended. Which then kill the unitive and nondual state of this separate self/unity-state-identity/God within an Infinity of Gods/Alien/n+1 when coming out of the trip.
Necessary for that confusion (some form of pre-trans confusion to use the wording of Ken Wilber) is, among other confusions, to misidentitfy True No-Self:
- not True No-Self (the death/transcendence of any and all separate self/Individuality arisings, resulting in fully empty IMPERSONAL Consciousness/Nothingness/Absolute)
- but with some lower forms of "No-Self", like No-Ego, No-Person, No-separate-body-mind (but nondual), No-Self of Unitive States up to a very subtle and empty transparent Witness (already nondual, being the nondual infinite field), but with some Individuality still left.
The last dropping/transcending/-seeing as objects arising in ones True Self- of
- identity, center, localization,
- any forms of individuality-arisings, very very subtle feelings or awareness OF Emptiness, OF an infinite universe being seen, awareness OF being, awareness of anything
is what finally brings this sudden crossing over to ones Real Identity. Waking up, Enlightenment, fully empty and impersonal Consciousness/Reality. And that is where there is nowhere further to go (no n+1, no new Awakenings), final peace and liberation are to be found. In ones True Identity.
And that is why stopping short, and declaring that stopping short (New Awakening n+1) as higher as that crossing over to ones Real Identity (Nothingness), is a dangerous pre-trans-confusion, which doesn't lead to ones True Being and final liberation and the end of suffering, but a continued grasping and suffering for ever higher and newer "Awakenings" not into emptiness/Nothingness, but form/manifestation, and how the manifestation/imagining process is structured.
And for those not even walking this (psychedelic-) path, but basking in proliferating mere (retold) concepts or stories about this path, ending in Solipsism and Infinity of Gods, it doesn't even deliver the transcendence and beauty that these unitive and infinite psychedelic states bring. But something on a spectrum ranging from suffering to madness.
The spiritual path is the transcendence of the separate self, its death or letting go, once and for all. Neti Neti, until fully being everything, because one has become the real Nothing/ness. Not the blowing up of the separate-self to infinite God-like-solipsistic dimension. That would be the other direction, leading not to freedom and love, but to suffering and closing down. Directly into the cycle of merciless suffering and dissatisfaction, being caught in the prison of the claws of the separate self/ego/self-contraction. That is what makes this pre/trans-confusion (at least in the perspective of yours truly) very very dangerous.
And now, for those disagreeing, the Bear-and-Empty-Mirror thing (signature link) please
Selling Water by the River
PS: And to end a bit "lighter": A Samsara/Lila consisting of separate selves necessarily needs continuing Illusion/Ignorance concerning ones True Identity. So for the fraction that will for sure not change its mind just because there is Water being sold at the River (posting above), and still prefers to continue with a certain solipsistic-messiah complex, yours truly would recommend considering doing it with style: Something like the very charming and apparently very attractive for the ladies - style of Russell Brand:
Then, at least, its very charming
. Less capital letters, less exclamation-marks, less angry criticism, blaming and calling names, but truck-loads of charm, (especially) with the opposite sex!
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Because who would do the imagining? A separate self (in whatever version). Which has to be gone to fully wake up. So the separate self can't do the imagining how it "would be like" to be gone. It is the "thing" doing/being the imagining.
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7 minutes ago, Razard86 said:So that means you are a liar. A liar is a rapist. So you are a rapist.
....
So yes you are a rapist, all of humanity are rapists. You can deny it all you want but it doesn't stop it from being true. You rapist.
ok. Now please check the forum guide-lines.
quoting from there:
- #1 Rule: Don't Be A Jerk. Speak to people with respect. Be conscious and nice.
- Show a level of respect & humility. Demonstrate kindness, friendliness, and compassion towards fellow members.
- Verbal abuse
- Calling members names like: stupid, idiot, moron, asshole, retard, etc.
- If a user violates our guidelines and shows a disregard for the staff or the community, they run the risk of losing their account. We reserve the right to deactivate any account and to edit or remove any content without warning. These guidelines are subject to change at any time without notice.
Every reader of your post can make up his own mind wether you acted according to the forum guidelines, with some basic decency, and wether you have mental problems or not. And wether these problems are boostet or not by a certain Solipsism-Narcicissm-ideology that apparently you are very fond of....
I wish you a much needed Bon Voyage!
Water by the River
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11 minutes ago, Razard86 said:All force is RAPE, your problem is you make rape only a physical act. Fraud is rape, lying is rape, thievery is rape, murder is rape, what is rape? To use force to get what you want, while ignoring what the other wants!!! THAT IS WHAT RAPE IS, AND ALL OF YOU HERE ARE RAPISTS. Stop with the bullshit.
Sorry, but "all of" us here are not rapists.
But maybe some have something like a Messiah Complex, or something like that.
"However, the symptoms as a proposed disorder closely resemble those found in individuals with delusions of grandeur or with grandiose self-images that veer towards the delusional."
"In terms of the attitude wherein an individual sees themselves as having to save another or a group of poor people, there is the notion that the action inflates their own sense of importance and discounts the skills and abilities of the people they are helping to improve their own lives"
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20 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:makes sense if you want to awake (without the slapping) . thinking that others exist creates the illusion of something external to you. as an infinite total absolute, there is nothing external to you. then someone will say: yes, but now you are not infinite, you are a part of reality. It is not like this. It seems impossible and false, but the trick is masterfully constructed. At the moment in which you think that the others exist, and are having an experience, you have completely fallen into the illusion. this does not mean that the others do not exist. Whether they exist or not means absolutely nothing, it is a mental construction, like all histories, the software that is running. thinking that they exist creates apparent fragmentation. thinking that they do not exist focuses you on reality, the now. First order reality is now, merge with it because you are the now. Thinking of others is the separating agent, creating an apparent separation between the now and an illusory you.
Yes, agree.
Please allow me some further musings (not specifically adressed to your post, just some general ramblings)....
Others don't exist. Yes. But at the same time, "oneself"/separate self also does not exist. Exist=Ex-ist, or literally: standing out from Reality. Practically: really doesn't exist. Just an illusion. Has the same level of reality/existence as the tree "one" watches: an arising illusion. In reality, when the separate self illusion no longer arises, the tree is watching itself, perceptions perceiving themselves.
And practically speaking:
- If one gets rid of the fake illusory separate-self, the problem of "others" is also solved: Non Dual. No others. Not Two. But also not one.... Because one doesn't make sense without two. Reality itself. Is not one. Is not two. Is infinite. And that Reality is fully empty, fully impersonal, perceptions perceiving themselves.
- If one gets rid of others first before getting rid/transcending ones separate self, one gets the solipsism-narcissm show. And nothing with real Nonduality, not two, but just a ego-show of the highest degree.
Neti Neti. The deep structure of EVERY spiritual path. Before becoming everything, one has to become nothing. Nothingness. Because if one doesn't, one isn't fully empty/Nothingness, which is the essence of every appearance. Path (1) is hard, its transcending/letting go/death and dying of the separate self. Path (2) seems easy (just change some concepts/thinking, et voila), but backfires at the end. It just doesn't work, suffering continues.
So if one is not fully empty/impersonal/fully Nothingness (goal path 1), only thing left to do (path 2) to is to project this more (like an empty witness) or less (like the fully narcicisstic ego-separate-self-grandiosity-show) onto a more or less nondual field.
True nonduality is being fully empty/impersonal. Its very easy to get a nondual experience merging with the visual field while not being empty, still being a separate self with individuality: Just drop some Psychedelics.... Nondual is not enlightened (or fully imperpersonal Nothingness being Everything, or Reality itself). But Nonduality is a prerequisite of realizing true Nonduality, or the fully empty impersonal Enlightenment/Nonduality, realizing ones Identity as Reality itself.
Empty, Impersonal Nothingness, or Pure Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. The essence of all arisings, Infinite Reality itself, the Absolute.
Thou shalt not be able to see my face; for no man shall see my face, and live. - Exodus 33:20
Selling Water by the River
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7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:Please slap me so hard that I die and never have to experience the pain of reading any of your posts again.
Recommend a slap/clap of the One Hand. That way ones body doesn't get hurt, only the separate self dies a bit more. Makes reading the posts easier....
Water by the River
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2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:It's really not. It's only on this forum. It's purely a cultural artefact from Leo being edgy.
True.
On an Absolute Level, IT truly is solipsistic. When ones identity is truly Fully Empty Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. But then, there is no point talking about it.... to whom?
Because if one talks to beings with ego/separate-self still not fully transcended, what is described below normally happens (1).
And if "going Solipsism" while the ego/separate self still is not fully transcended (which is in 99% of cases the case), it is normally is (or ends) in a hilarious narcissistic ego-show of the highest degree. And that narcissistic ego-show is the opposite of transcending the separate self/ego towards True Impersonal Infinite Consciousness. So either way, its a bad idea.
And why is Solipsism so attractive? (1) To blow up ones Ego/separate self to more than it is, grandiose-narcissistic-self-importance-style. And that is the opposite of the spiritual path, or dying/transcending of ones separate self illusions, letting go of it, to discover newer/larger and more empty identities....
Selling Water by the River
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35 minutes ago, Razard86 said:Well easy.... take your left hand and move it to the right. Notice that it is phasing in and out of existence. To understand this you need to look at frames or a flip book. What you call motion is just a disappearing and reappearing. This proves you were never alive and you cannot die as everything is just a constant disappearance and reappearance. You blink, disappearance, reappearance. You go to sleep and either dream or go into deep sleep (disappear either into a dream or go blank) then you wake up and reappear. Your emotions appear and disappear your thoughts disappear and reappear.
If you pay attention close to your hand you will notice the sensation of your hand pulsates. It disappears and reappears. You are that which is aware of disappearing and reappearing. You actually never go anywhere but you are constantly showcasing for your own entertainment disappearing and reappearing.
Your life is just a magic show of boom its gone, and boom its back. That's it.
> Your life is just a magic show of boom its gone, and boom its back. That's it.
Ok. Got it. We all un-learn the skill of object permanence ( see video above, the skill of object permanence that most of us got handled pretty well between age 12 months to 24 months), and then it sAuLL GOODMAN.
Like in happy ever after. Everybody gets enlightened just unlearning the skill/concept of object permanence, and by understanding some new ideas (ITS ALL YOU!!!), because then everybody can reason in the way described in the post above, and it is understood that only oneself exists
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Object_permanence
Proposal for the next smart answer, to stabilize this "Enlightenment":
Psychiatrist: I don't know your problem yet, so so its best when you start right from the beginning.
Patient: In the beginning, I created the heavens and the earth.
Yours Truly
Water by the River
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15 minutes ago, Yimpa said:@Water by the River Nice selfie
yeah, the new I-Phone makes great pics. Especially when Caravaggio arranges the perspective and pushes the button.
I fall in love with the pic every time I see it, don't cha?
Water by the River
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Just now, josemar said:All good, but please replace this word with narcissism
in your thesaurus.
Pour encourager les autres
thanks, always trying to improve my english
In German, it is "Narzissmus".
Anyway, its the movement founded by the guy having fallen in love with his own reflection in the pond:
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Just now, Carl-Richard said:The brand thing was not to imply it was financially motivated. It was a cheeky way of saying that he found his calling. It plays to his strengths. It also just happened that it distinguished him from the larger non-duality sphere. "Psychedelic mysticism": it's not just non-duality, and it's not just psychonautics, but it's a weird hybrid. It allows him to have more authority on the subject, which would be useful if he was indeed motivated by the things you mentioned. Besides, you don't need an overt cult to get any of those things. If anything, it would be a good strategy to give his followers good reasons for why they're exactly not in a cult.
I see, thanks for the clarifying. Then I didn't fully understand your post on the first try. And I agree to your interpretations.
He has so much potential with his path so far, and this site and its impact, and he is a very smart cookie... Lets see if he uses it for good, meaning and final Great Enlightenment, or a weird-hybrid of staying top-dog of something less than enlightened.
Challenge is: He really is a pioneer, seeing things on his trips that probably nobody ever has seen (but I don't know, previous cultures&traditions also did lots of psychedelics and were also not dumb). Including some "Jester-elements" at the higher levels of the manifestation-pyramid seducing him with the self-importance they grant him during these trips&afterwards, with best regards & a kiss from Maya herself. Gotta keep the illusion working, not that God forbid, too many really wake up.
The only question is if he is a) smart enough with b) good enough Karma to keep the narcissm/self-grandiosity/self-importance/ego-boosting in check and at some point really crosses over to Impersonal Enlightenment. Which really is death of anything ego/narcissm. My personal perspective is: self-importance is like a filter to intelligence and intuition, it makes dumb or prevents Infinite Intelligence to giving certain insights. But to have a Lila, you need Illusion. And the biggest motivating element, the biggest illusion-creator, is self-importance. Don't ask me how I know that.... yours truly did this mistake way too often, until a lucky kind-a-suicide happened....
Guess we stay tuned how it all develops....
Would be nice if it works out well for Leo & show & forum, since I haven't seen a place like this yet.
If somebody is aware of a similiar forum, also well frequented with many ingenious and interesting characters, with a bit less solipsistic
madnessconfusion and the capacity to tell the difference between solipsism/narcissm and transcendence, and more humble and honest striving to kill/transcend the remnants of the veils of the separate self, but with a similiar level of openness to for example psychedelics&innovation&clear description of the higher stages, please let me know. My suspect would be Dharma Overground, but I have no experience with that place. Guess there is no place like this here, but don't know....Water by the River
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7 minutes ago, Razard86 said:I don't know he took the video down and that was the video along with his Guided Exercise For Realizing You Are God that helped me the most. His Solipsism Video is so powerful that literally if you accept it as true you will awaken sober.
Well, the effects of the Solipsism video on some parts of the audience are pretty well documented with comments like that... And "Guided Exercise For Realizing You Are God" apparently can also be hijacked and be interpreted in funny ways.... Show must go on...
That is why until now in all Spiritual Traditions touching these areas where it gets a little bit, lets say, unconventional and complicated, with huge potential for misunderstandings... were kept, uh, pretty secret, and communicated to the aspirant at the right stage, and then carefully explained and put into context. With a vow of secrecy, to not confuse further generations. But in the age of youtube, bye bye to these checks and balances of the secret stuff forever.
Probably, the resulting fallout can not be avoided....
How many suicides and lives destroyed on a relative level by rampant narcissm and solipsism gone off the edge in a "hey man, its all imagined, why don't you wise up and get it?!"-manner are going to be needed? God knows....
Will be interesting how long it takes for sub-cultures like this forum here to wise up, and to put that into a clear and appropriate context of caution & watch out, unfortunate things a) b) and c) can happen when interpretation is less than careful, and loaded with separate self narcissm.
Normally, I am not that critical, but here it is clear for everbody with eyes to see that this solipsistic and narcisstic "creativity" (not to say borderline-madnesss) will hurt some authors of certain posts....
Razard, do me a favour: Please don't disintegrate your life on a relative level. Honestly, all the best, and Bon Voyage!
Selling Water by the River
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4 minutes ago, RebornConsciousness said:How did that prove me wrong though? I never claimed that science can explain everything, nor do I dissagree with the claim that consciousness is fundamental to reality. But where are the imagined and manifested pink elephants, observed by 2 independent sober observers, caught on camera?
Here:
Sorry
yours truly
Selling Water by the River
PS: The mouse is the second independent observer
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1 hour ago, RebornConsciousness said:It's the same shit as Leo and his retarded fucking Alien consciousness
and him trying to find the right camera to capture his transition/shapeshifting. This is just retarded
Yes, stating that in the forum was not the smartest move, compared to how smart he was elsewhere. But hey, everbody has bad days and does less than smart stuff... including yours truly, and everybody else.
Water by the River
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1 hour ago, Razard86 said:Leo mentioned in one of his video that there is a Zen Master who can imagine a Pink Elephant into existence
You don't need to do Zen or be a Zen Master to get Pink Elephants into existence/manifestation.
Dumbo did it without that, by having a drink or two too much....
Do you realize that imagining the pink elephant concept came into our language and culture by the scene in the Disney-film shown above where Dumbo accidently drinks too much alcohol?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seeing_pink_elephants
And do you realize if somebody wanted to make fun of Leos teachings, and especially the effect of Leos teachings on certain readers, like in Matthew 7:15-20, "You Will Know Them by Their Fruits", it would look pretty much like what you are doing?
Matthew 7:15-20
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
Water by the River
PS: "Oh and here is the kicker you don't know...when you awaken fully, you get to have more sex than any human ever. Because you realize sex is imaginary you can imagine sex, and enjoy it fully!! You will feel the sweat, the touch, every movement every sensation and it will be so real it will prove to you that sex....has always just been you having sex with yourself.
As a result I don't need a woman to have sex, I can imagine her and experience FULL SEX, the FULL experience. So guess what? I just proved to you that the truth gets you laid the most!! BOO YA!!"
Really sure you are not trolling (either intentionally or unintentionally), and making fun of the whole forum and Leos teaching?
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1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:What happened? Did he get sloppy with his language? Did he stop giving a fuck? Did 5-MeO fry his brain? Did he become AWAKE? Or did he conclude that he couldn't achieve persistent non-dual awareness and instead opted to remake his brand into psychedelic mysticism ("God-realization") and started shitting on classical non-duality, other spiritual teachers and Buddhism, effectively separating himself from the traditions that make these fine distinctions between awakening and solipsism, to the point where their concerns seem relevant? That's a rhetorical question. I wonder if that will be in Leo's biography
Very interesting collection of quotes. He is definitely smart enough to understand the difference between Solipsism and real Nonduality.
But I don't think the dark move you describe happenened. He doesn't need to do that just for his brand. If he wanted money & fame & validation & attention & whatever, he would probably just start the mother of all cults. Smart enough he is....
I believe something else happened here:
- Many trips, and fully being this Imagined Universe/Multiverse, which he then called God. What I would call Buddhafield with a Buddha/Manager/God of that Reality/whatever you want to call it. Something has to run and be this show. In mystical experiences and/or trips you can become that God. Merge with it, or become it as Identity (Wilbers high subtle and low causal levels). Still not the end of the story. Because: What is the essence of that Buddha/Manager/God of that Reality/whatever you want to call it? Nothingness.
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And during these trips, it became clear for him that he actually was that. The Reality of that Multiverse/Buddhafield, already a nondual merging with all of that. Sovereign. But not fully empty. So far, so good.
- Not fully Empty Impersonal Consciousness/Nothingness. Wilbers High Causal, Nothingness. The Gateless Gate and Gate-Keeper, after which real Nondual Enlightenment waits....
- Steven Wolinsky writes of something very similiar (see below).
- Funny thing is: His trips have shown him 95%+ of the properties of Reality, and more or less fully shown him how this God/Buddhafield/Void Universe works, merging with it in a nondual way. And realizing that being that was more true to his true core than the everday waking character. But not realizing the Abyss of the Absolute, not the totally empty Nothingness. He thinks he has it, but if one is still aware of an "it", ...
- But there is/was still a very subtle "he" perceiving "that" or "being" that left.
- Then he doubted that to be final, doubted everything, and tried to reach out for "something" beyond (see his Video "Infinity of Gods". And he says in the Infinity of Gods video then "conincidentally" at exactly that moment another God/Buddhfield/Multiverse/rReality reached out (by free will) to touch him as God/Buddhafield. Thus maintaining the sovereignity of both him as God/Void Universe, and the other God/Void Universe.
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Then he postulated an Infinity of other Gods or Buddhafields, just like "him". Basically, he had to deviate from classic Nondual/Infinite teachings, invent the Infnity of Gods theory, to make place for his experience that there was still another God/Void Universe reaching out to him. All of wich exists, but all of which is still form, identity, ... . Not the absolute Abyss of fully Empty Impersonal Nothingness/Consciousness, or the essence of Reality itself....
- and of course, it doesn't really make sense to talk of oneself as the God/Void-Universe running/being this dimension. Even if one is that (because one is all), its too risky to talk like that and make onself confuse or inflate ones separate self/perspective with that larger more encompassing perspective/being (a larger Holon, the Void Universe Buddhafield God Holon containing all lower perspectives/Holons within it), or cause that to happen at others. But that is another topic...
That seems to be more or less the end of the road where you can go to with Psychedelics with the separate self not fully gone, but 95%+ gone. An awareness of emptiness, of God, of the Infinity of Gods/Buddhafields/sovereign Manifestations, even an Identity with it. And having ones fellow God-buddies reach out to oneself (Infinity of Gods). With a little bit of confusing the properties of that Buddhafield-God, like sovereignity, and projecting that on himself.
But all in all still an awareness OF something. and By something, BEING something..... the very last remnants of a nearly totally empty Individuality/Identity aware of ... [something], whatever that is at the moment. Awakening n+1. At least while tripping.
Not fully empty, not fully impersonal, neither while tripping, and definitely not after the trip. But proclaiming that this not empty identity is a higher Awakening than the full empty impersonal Enlightenment to fully empty impersonal consciousness/Nothingness, and then truly being everything. Including the Infinity of Gods, the infinity of other Void-Universes-Manifestation-Dimensions.
If he would look deeply into the emptiness (or mere appearance) of all that he experienced during these trips, all his assumptions/concepts/pet theories, all his last remaining last Individuality-arisings, and let of them die, truly die, truly transcend them, disidentitfy, let go.... we could get to see an Enligthenment to true Nothingness, a final waking up to his True Being, being so empty that it can fully hold and be everything, also while not tripping. That would be the end of his grasping for ever new insights, understandings and Awakenings n+1. It would also be an end to him as separate self.
I doubt that can be done using mainly/only psychedelics, because of the time one needs in these empty states to truly get rid of every last separate-self arising/and last Identity/any awareness "of" something, without frying ones brains. But I could be wrong on that, I don't know.
Lets see if Karma holds that for him Enlightenment on his path. At least from my side he has the best wishes to bask in the final liberation and bliss that that brings. And with that step, he would integrate his teachings with the collected experience of humanity on Enlightenment and waking up, and even push the knowledge into the manifested nature of the Multiverse, or into knowledge about form/manifestation, further.
Knowledge of the Absolute (Emptiness/Nothingness) always is the same, at all times, forever. Doesn't change, and can only be realized by being it, letting any cloud darkening the Sun of ones ever burning Primordial Being finally evaporate.
Water by the River
The quotes from Steven Wolinsky, The Way of the Human Part 3
"In 1995, what “this” was became clear enough for “me” to describe because, for the first time, “I” could “see” that this was beyond the VOID—and, more importantly, there was not one VOID but an infinite number of VOID universes. In other words, the VOID appears to go on forever. However, it does have an end, and when the end is reached, the NAMELESS ABSOLUTE is revealed.
To best illustrate this, imagine, you are in an oil well (VOID) in the middle of the Sahara desert. While you are in this oil well (VOID), you have all the experiences contained within that particular oil well universe. From inside the oil well universe (the VOID) an infinite number of experiences exist which are true and specific to and within that particular VOID (oil well) universe only. But when or if “you” were to expand and reach the top of the well and climb out, you would be in the desert (the NAMELESS ABSOLUTE) and “you” could “view” an infinite number of VOID universes (many, many oil wells) which in Quantum Physics could be likened to parallel universes. In India, beyond the WITNESS and the VOID OF UN-DIFFERENTIATED CONSCIOUSNESS lies the SUPREME WITNESS which Quantum Psychology calls the NAMELESS ABSOLUTE.
Now, within “our” VOID universe are the concepts of energy, electromagnetics, gravity, space, mass, time, distance, location, God, enlightenment, One Substance, quantum physics, Archetypes, paths, religions, etc., etc., etc., etc.
But these are true only within our one particular VOID universe—they may or may not make any “sense” within other VOID universes.
It can be said, then, that the SUPREME WITNESS is beyond the infinite number of VOID universes.
The most powerful Archetype in “this,” “our” VOID universe, is the collective concept of GOD.
The concept of God and a seeker after God or truth are Archetypes of such magnitude that it impacts practically everyone in the world. Most religions are based on an omnipresent God who somehow rules the universe."
and
" The “space” between the VOID universes (VOIDs) is the NAMELESS ABSOLUTE. For descriptive terms only, this is the difference between SELF-REALIZATION and GOD-REALIZATION.
The realization of “NOT-I-I,” the VOID OF UNDIFFERENTIATED CONSCIOUSNESS is SELF REALIZATION. GOD REALIZATION is BEYOND SELF REALIZATION and the VOID OF UNDIFFERENTIATED CONSCIOUSNESS. It is the NAMELESS ABSOLUTE and it is the NAMELESS ABSOLUTE which erases all other dimensions including the VOID. In the NAMELESS ABSOLUTE, even the VOID must be gone beyond. "
Only problem with the last paragraph is the definition of the wording. Leos God-Realization corresponds to Wolinskys Self-Realization, and Wolinskis God-Realization is the Realization of the Absolute.
PSPS: Yesterday, pretty much by conincidence I drove by and visisted the ruins of Monastery Disibodenberg, where female mystic Hildegard von Bingen lived and worked in the 12th century. I didn't know she was living there when deciding to visit the place. A marvelous atmosphere of a large monastery in ruins, in a forest on top of a mountain, where Hildegard lived and worked. The rays of the Divinity running this Reality/Universe found their ways at all times, all places.
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11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:Maybe, but the "real" reality is this experience, the rest are just ideas. the now is the reality, everything that appears is within the now. outside of now is impossible. it's just an idea that arises in the now. Does what appears in the now have its own consciousness? this is just a question that arises in the now, it doesn't mean nothing, nothing means nothing, just be now. that is the absolute, where all us merge in one. All us share the same now, we are the same, in the same place, same moment, same "experience" that seems fragmented.
Yes, I agree. The picture just can help explaining why there is no external world with 3D-space, but an Infinite Universal Mind/Consciousness (the One without a second) able so split itself (only seemingly) into an infinite number of perspectives, thereby imagining/manifesting a "world".
An infinite number of perspectives, of which most perspectives can not perceive the "inside" view of other perspectives. Being a human wouldn't work if one perceives at the same time the perspective of every other being on the planet.
But each perspective perceives the "outsides" of the other perspectives, their appearing "body/form". Et voila, there is the manifested world/lila, or Indras Net, without needing any "external" "solid" matter. Made out of Consciousness/Nothingness as its essence, perceiving itself by itself.
Francis Lucille called that process of forgetting the other/further perspectives "forgetting in space", instead of forgetting in time (forgetting in time = like in what did one do exactly one year ago. Normally one can't remember, has fully forgotten it. Or is not imagining it right now).
Water by the River
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1 minute ago, Breakingthewall said:Yes, almost all of us understand this, what is not so easy to understand is why it seems that there is a guy typing on a phone. where are the infinite multiverses? and the rats, intelligent and stupid? and razard? everything is contained here and now, but I only see a fucking phone.
" where are the infinite multiverses? and the rats, intelligent and stupid? and razard?"
There are no multiverses. Only the perspectives of each holon/being of which these apparent multiverses "persist", or rather are imagined. Indras Net of perspectives, each perspective reflecting and containing all other perspectives/beings/holons/crystals in Indras Net.
Picture in the post above (also shown below).
Non-Euclidian-Space can contain infinite perspectives, something like in the vision of Marc Leavitt:
And the One with a second, or Absolute Infinite Impersonal Consciousness holds and watches all these perspectives, but a "human"-perspective/being is unaware of all the other perspectives, or forgets them "in space", like we normally forget things "in time".
Reality is made of perspectives, each perspective containing/reflecting each other, and the "aware" "thing" is the same in all of them: Infinite Impersonal Consciousness. It is also the essence of any appearance appearing in a perspective. But it is impersonal, so empty it feels like death. There is no separate-self, and it doesn't need to make I-feelings or I-thoughts (the separate self, ego) appear. As a molecule, or animal, it can do fine without....
For more of that theory that reality is made of Holons, or perspectives, or Indras Net, see Ken Wilber "Sex, Ecology, Spirituality".
Maybe that is interesting for you.
Selling Water by the River
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>@Water by the River perhaps consider making your post shorter and less filled with mumbo jumbo and world salads in a coherently understandable way.
selling.Someone here.
3 hours ago, Water by the River said:Little remark, included after a waaay to long rambling: If somebody has truly read until here, and thinks all of this post is all BS, please quote the number 147, to show that one has actually read most of that dry and boring musings of yours truly until here... ( : . Thank you, very kind.
I already agreed on the length of the post in the post itself.
For the mumbo jumbo & word salads: If I define all terms again (like Infinite Impersonal Consciousness, or any word salad/mumbo jumbo of your choosing), the post will would even longer. And we don't want that, do we?
Yours truly
Selling Water by the River
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7 minutes ago, Someone here said:This guy gets on my nerves.
An opportunity to work on ones Karma by staying calm.
Sorry, just kidding
But so far, I rejoice in being mainly ignored with my posts and counterarguments I posted on the topics of Solipsism and the like
Selling Water by the River
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7 minutes ago, Water by the River said:Javyfly33: As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion. As long as there is a sense of you existing within something (like a body), there is a delusion. The end.
Yimpa: Your mind is too inflexible.
@Yimpa, how about stating any reasons for your statements? Or logical conclusions?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence
Javfly33 describes in his statement exactly the fundamental process of waking up. If you challenge the central deep structural process of every major spiritual traditions and system, maybe have the courtesy of giving at least some explanatory statements? Like in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_reasoning
Yours truly
Water by the River
3 minutes ago, Yimpa said:This is one of the reasons this forum is potent. You can really appreciate the different states of consciousness at work in perfect synchronicity.
> @Yimpa, how about stating any reasons for your statements? Or logical conclusions?
Not today, darling....
all the best
Water by the River
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Javyfly33: As long as there is an identification process, there is delusion. As long as there is a sense of you existing within something (like a body), there is a delusion. The end.
1 minute ago, Yimpa said:Your mind is too inflexible.
@Yimpa, how about stating any reasons for your statements? Or logical conclusions?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_consequence
Javfly33 describes in his statement exactly the fundamental process of waking up. If you challenge the central deep structural process of every major spiritual traditions and system, maybe have the courtesy of giving at least some explanatory statements? Like in:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Logical_reasoning
Yours truly
Water by the River
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matthew_7:16
... just kidding
Leos Teachings hold a lot of potential, and my guess is that soon as they evolve over the Solipsistic/Infinity of Gods - phase (please excuse my humble opinion), and no longer confuse a not-so-empty God-(separate)-self with the Absolute Emptiness of the Absolute/Reality, or the Absolute Empty Abyss of Nothingness of Impersonal Consciousness, the "fruits" (Matthew 7:16) will also be marvelous.
I guess there is quite a high chance that that will happen. He is smart and diligent, and has published some awesome videos on bias and self-deception and the like, not to speak of all the other videos which contain really some great stuff. But in this Lila nothing is predetermined or certain. So, as always: Enjoy the show, and Bon voyage!
As soon as every little subtle remaining
- -separate-self-arising/lense/bias/awareness of emptiness/awareness of being/awareness of being God or Reality or Alien or whatever, anything at all/awareness of being anything-
is transcended/seen&let go/subject made object/ burned and is no longer colouring the experience of Infinite Reality or True Identity of Impersonal Infinite Consciousness, then "burned by the everburning flame of ones own primordial nature —all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free." - first part yours truly, second part in quotation marks by Bassui (also below).
I wish him exactly this genuine peace and joy permanently in daily life that comes along the permanent realization/waking up. Then one is the whole Enchilada, watching itself, being absolutely Nothing(ness)..... and Nothingness never has a problem, only can contain them... moving around in itself like mosquitoes, but then of the slow flying version, easy to splat/transcend/cutoff. Sorry, probably not a Boddhisattva-style metaphor.
More on the mosquitoes see below:
So, it seems, until then: With every heroic pioneering effort, there is certain danger. Hic sunt dracones!
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hic_sunt_dracones
Water by the River
PS: The full quote, from Three Pillars of Zen, Kapleau:
Bassui: If you push forward with your last ounce of strength at the very point where the path of your thinking has been blocked, and then, completely stymied, leap with hands high in the air into the tremendous abyss of fire confronting you—into the ever-burning flame of your own primordial nature—all ego-consciousness, all delusive feelings and thoughts and perceptions will perish with your ego-root and the true source of your Self-nature will appear. You will feel resurrected, all sickness having completely vanished, and will experience genuine peace and joy. You will be entirely free.
For the first time you will realize that walking on water is like walking on ground and walking on ground like walking on water; that all day long there is speaking, yet no word is ever spoken; that throughout the day there is walking, yet no step is ever taken; that while the clouds are rising over the southern mountains their rain is falling over the northern range; that when the lecture gong is struck in China the lecture begins in Korea; that sitting alone in a ten-foot-square room you meet all the Buddhas of the ten quarters; that without seeing a word you read the more than seven thousand volumes of the sutras; that though you acquire all the merits and virtues of good actions, yet in fact there are none.
PSPS: The rest of the Mosquito metaphor:
.... And by the way, what one thinks what one is if one thinks oneself to be still anything at all: These are the mosquitos/separate-self-arisings (I-thoughts and I-feelings)/lenses/localizations, buzzing around in True You (the Totality), endlessly annoying, but making the hell of a show....
- If they are too fast emerging/moving for oneself to easily squat them all at ones own convinience (genereally, keep the useful ones (the functional character) buzzing, squat the rest, the ones with "suffering" painted on them), then there is meditation/transcedence work to do.
- The meditation/Transcedence gets the bliss flowing by the way, which is like some smoke that slows down the moskitos, makes them easy to squat/transcend.
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And short form of the post above on the Boddhisattva-Vow:
- Align yourself with the tendency of the Universe/Reality (evolving to ever more complex forms and waking up in as many beings as possible),
- vow to grow and help as much as possible in the process, both at/with yourself and "others", and
- get the direct grace/intuition/intelligence of the Totality/Infinite Consciousness (infinitely intelligent anyway) also manifested in your mindstream, at least in a higher degree than just closing down and only caring for ones own "stuff".
Bon voyage!
Water by the River
in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
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