Water by the River

thanks for mentioning that. And for a very similiar perspective not from a channeler, but a first hand Out-of-body explorer of these afterlife-realms: The books of Jürgen Ziewe.

or: Selling Water by the River

Michael Heiser, The Unseen Realm Muraesco, The Immortality Key: The Secret History of the Religion with No Name Carl Ruck, The Apples of Apollo: Pagan and Christian Mysteries of the Eucharist Strassman, DMT and the Soul of Prophecy: A New Science of Spiritual Revelation in the Hebrew Bible

So lets hope he still has fun. I am pretty sure he has... God definitely had fun cosplaying him.

Not quite correct, Mr. Cantor has proven that. See Cantors set theory and Cantor in general: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cantor_set See Cantors set theory. There exists an infinity of differently large infinities. Not every theoretical possibility must be manifested even if manifestation continues forever & infinitely. Selling the possibility that not every hell possible actually exists in the Infinities of the River

and jokes aside, what is going to rout very evil very confused and very angry/hateful souls back home after their murderous activity? Some good old frying in Dantes Inferno... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inferno_(Dante) And yes, Dante was also into psychedelics... For more contemporary experiences: For some Hell-NDEs, Chris Bache, Dark Night, Early Dawn. Steps to a Deep Ecology of Mind. And Jürgen Ziewes first hand OBE accounts where Osama bin Laden & crew ends up in Ziewe, Vistas of Infinity. For some impressive pictures of the lovely crew of those realms: Ziewe, Elysium Unveiled: A Visual Odyssey of Life Eternal Luckily, it is only imagined/illusion. And not forever. But I guess that doesn't really help these poor (imagined) souls that are evaluating first hand what Spirit is capable of to get the lost sheep to repent & back on track towards home... Considering all of that, the famous statement "Although my view is higher than the sky, my respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour" seems a good way the keep this dream (and the next) on the more comfy side. If one is so inclined... Hic sunt dracones. Selling views higher than the sky & respect for the cause and effect of actions by the River

David Spangler, Subtle Worlds - An Explorer's Field Notes. Chapter 8: Soul Jürgen Ziewe, Multidimensional Man. A Voyage of Discovery into the Heart of Creation. Chapter The final journey, 25th August 1980 Chris Bache, LSD and the Mind of the Universe: Diamonds from Heaven. Chapter Reincarnation and the Soul and more on request. Soul. Imagined and appearing of course. Like everything else. Therefor, as real or unreal as anything else... Or, in other words, as real or unreal as ones car. Yet, a little more durable, like in... immortal, surviving death. From life to life, dream to dream. And more important. The epic game of forgetting and finding, played by Infinite Consciousness/Being/Reality... Souls... very much worth taking care of on this relative level of ours. Especially when venturing to far out realms, where no man has gone before.... hic sunt dracones. Selling Soul-Eddies in the Water by the River PS: And like Inliytened1 wrote above: A concept. From the perspective of Absolute Truth. Like every other manifestatation, as real or unreal as anything else. As long as this concept is not seen through, no realization of Absolute Reality. Yet, the (relative) concept 2+2=4 holds more (relative) truth than 2+2=5. Same with the concept soul: relative, appearing truth, not Absolute Truth. But since Absolute Truth contains Relative Truth, and as we all know, relative (un-) Truth can make a lot of trouble.... "Although my view is higher than the sky (Absolute Truth), my respect for the cause and effect of actions is as fine as grains of flour (relative truth)".

Ziewe has a legit Full Enlightenment experience description in his book "The Ten Minute Moment" which is very very hard to just make up in the form he describes. Shhhh, or else the metaphysical Love=Absolute aficionados could get a challenge that suddenly a legit nondual realizer has had the Godhead-Absolute Reality-Love-Light realization as foundation of Reality/Absolute also, but on a more stable basis and not only a temporary state - and also values and emphasizes its importance a lot! Seen from that perspective, the only thing that is missing a bit is that Szyper starts talking about some advanced Alien-level-stuff, but you never know... ( : By the way, Ziewe has some literal Aliens, and also some more metaphysical Alien-Level-realizations descriptions in his books (Multidimensional Man mainly). Selling Love Light by the River

There is also a lot of explanations of his OBEs inside. He writes quite alot about the realms, mechanisms and phenomena that he describes in the books in more detail. They align with Buhlman, Spandler, Monroe, Grof and so on. He is for sure not the only or first one exploring these areas in OBEs. History of full of reports like this from mystics before (Dante, Swedenborg, Spandler, the descriptions of Grof... all the myths and books of the dead, all cultures & all centuries). He created the images himself with the help of AI. He is a professional Illustrator, so that also helped. It is a work of astounding beauty. In the video staring at 1min 40 (below)you can see some of the text, although it is more text than visible due to the zoom-in in the video. Selling Jürgen Ziewes & various other OBEs by the River

Why do you assume the cycle of existences stops with liberation? There are many voices and spiritual traditions (most of them) stating that Enlightenment is only the beginning of new, liberated and more awake/nondual forms of being/manifestation/wakeful dreams. Liberation/Enlightenment to stop the cycle of birth and death sounds very much like early buddhism (Hinanyana). Enlightened Mindstreams/beings don't stop (no dropping dead upon Enlightenment), they become nondual and non-separated, liberated and free. So why should there be no continuation after shedding this form-body (in whatever form or place)? There will not be much separate-anything left, but some more awake and liberated tendencies/Karma (in the case of a liberated being of course more liberated and awake). Among the spiritual traditions, pretty much only early Buddhism proclaimed the stop of cycle of birth and death, or no other existence. And the "Enlightenment"-ideal of early Buddhism was mainly cessation, not so much nondual realization in daily life, or Full Enlightenment. Latest with Mahayana, Buddhism changed its course dramatically on that. Selling Water by the River

If it is assumed that the side of the spectrum you mention is possible concerning reincarnation/other dreams (the bad ones), why not contemplate the other side of the spectrum (the good ones)? Jürgen Ziewe, Multidimensional Man Jürgen Ziewe, Vistas of Infinity Jürgen Ziewe, Elysium Unveiled (breathtakingly beautiful) Robert Monroes books David Spandler, Subtle Worlds. An Explorer’s Field Note William Buhlman, all books Grof, Books of the Dead Manuals for Living and Dying Grof,Beyond Death.The Gates of Consciousness More on request Seriously, don't destroy your life with this horror-line of thinking and going down that rabbit-hole. Consider especially taking a look at Jürgen Ziewes Elysium Unveiled. There are a few horror-scenarios inside (as with the other books also), but the rest is of breathtaking beauty. If the possibility of other dreams in Infinite Consciousness/reincarnation is maintained, why not let the beautiful geenie (video above) also out of the bottle? Of course, none of that has to be believed for realizing what Reality really is. The nature of Reality/Infinite Consciousness is always right here right now, covered by clouds of illusory separation/ignorance. And what You really are can never be harmed (no moving parts). Selling Water by the River

"Ignorance is only a bad idea from the perspective of ignorance." This statement is in line with what you wrote. Ignorance is a technical definition from Advaita Vedanta refering to the confusion/illusion of the separate-self. The building blocks of the separate-self/ego. Appearances that make one feel separate, dividing the true nondual state of things in duality, a me somewhere in here "in" something "other". Separation-Appearances that by definition cause suffering. Which are a bad idea from the perspective of the separate self. Not from the perspective of Reality itself. From the perspective of Reality itself, it is the spice of the world. The fuel that keeps this great game of Lila going.

Francis Lucille once said: Ignorance is only a bad idea from the perspective of ignorance. Which is a pretty funny way to put it, which becomes pretty clear once one has had a first glimpse of what the other perspective without ignorance is... And he said ingnorance is the spice of the world. Who could contradict that?

Sure. Ken Wilber said in the Interview-Series "Cosmic Consciousness" to Tami Simon that nobody on the planet is resting 24/7 in his True Nondual Being, enlightened or not. When True Reality clouds over with remaining ignorance, it is a hint from Reality which parts of the separate self are not yet seen through and still have the potential to "cloud" awakened Nonduality/Awareness. The question is then: Does one know ones True Being/Nature (impersonal enlightenment), and can one re-establish that nondual infinite awakened state immediately by just reaching out? Peak to Plateau to permanent. The deciding shift is realizing what that True Being really is. That gives to possibility to re-establish that by just "reaching out".

I never denied that from the perspective of separation/duality/separate ego there is suffering. I agree on the first two statements (above) from you. Actually, I wrote: And that suffering is as real or unreal as everything else. So from the perspective of the separate self it is very (!) real. Separate Self/unenlightened mindsteam = frequent suffering/resistance. First Noble Truth: Suffering. Unsatisfying. I would be the last one to deny that. Here it depends on what is meant with Reality/You/Being. I assume that for me the referent or meaning of these words/signifiers is something different than for you. Maybe lets leave it open what the true potential of the True Reality of you really is? In my perspective it would be unresonsible to not testify on the release of suffering in truly awakened nondual states. Especially if these awakened nondual states are not just temporary highs, but a reality that has become very reliably available right here and now, just by reaching out... Selling "the possibility of an end of resistance/suffering to what is arising in the Nondual Reality that You really are" by the River

@Javfly33 As Cetus writes: If you truly are the awake Infinite Totality on a deep identity level (Full Enlightenment into Absolute Reality itself, preferably as stable as possible in daily life, Peak to plateau to permanent), Infinite Reality itself.... would you resist yourself? Of course not. Remaining suffering/resistance shows where the separation from the Totality (aka separate-self/separation-elements of the ego) are still well and alive playing their game: a) desiring an experience and not getting it and suffering/resisting while doing that, or b) wanting an un-pleasurable experience to go away, and suffering/resisting that that is not happening/appearing. It is a hint of God/Reality (so to say) to highlight certain not yet enlightened elements of the mindstream, remaining false identities of something separate still emerging. To be precise: God/True You/Truth/Reality CONTAINS the (illusionary or mere appearing) appearance/arising of suffering/resistance. The ego or mind IS an appearance, and very often IS the suffering/resistance (when resisting what is). Yet, it is AS real (or unreal) as every other experience/arising/appearance. So very real enough to cause appearing/arising suffering/resisting in a not fully enlightened perspective/being. The sentient awareness is not suffering, it contains as appearance/arising the suffering. "The" sentient awareness is totally empty and impersonal, and yet "it" is also all that arises - nondual and infinite. "It" can never be located, it is the Totality seeing itself in a nondual way, without any separate anything pulling the nondual unity apart into duality. That awakened nondual enlightened state alone (which is also the true natural state btw. if no illusion is appearing/arising in it) is free of suffering/resistance. Resistance/suffering (another word for separate-self/separate ego arisings) ends this awakened nondual state faster than one can say "duality". That is not only my claim, but the claim of many humans that have realized their True Identity, over all ages, cultures, places, and found freedom from resisting/suffering/self-contracting.... But to truly understand and realize that, a big clap of the one hand is necessary. You practice, which is what counts. So, bon voyage.... Selling Water by the River PS: Back from vacation, and happy new year to everyone!

Marc Leavitt, Enlightenment — Behind the scenes. And for all the ladies and gentlemen of the category „speak from your own experience“: Bless their heart ( ; Yours truly is still on vacation. And why reinvent the wheel all the time… especially on the islands of eternal spring? „So, overnight, I went from being considered a nihilist (someone who thinks that they are ‘nothing’) to a solipsist (someone who thinks that they are. ‘the only thing’). I really do understand these criticisms. You can’t expect to go running around ranting and raving about the world being an illusion and not be called a ‘nihilist’ or a ‘world denier.’ Likewise, you can’t go around screaming that you are the Space for everything in existence and not be called a megalomaniac or a solipsist. But there is actually a tremendous difference between me and the nihilist as well as the solipsist. For example, when I say that the world is an illusion, I am not saying that the world doesn’t exist but instead that the world is actually God or Awareness. I never denied the fact that the world ‘appears.’ My point was that what we consider to be a fixed and solid world is actually God/Awareness manifesting as form. Going back to my analogy of the rainbow ... I am not denying the appearance of the rainbow. I am only saying that the rainbow is not a fixed and solid actual thing, but instead that the rainbow is actually ungraspable Light. So, when I point out the fact that the world is actually an illusion, it is not meant to denigrate the world but instead to glorify it by recognizing its true and profound nature. The difference between myself and the solipsist is that in my experience, I had to see that I was nothing before I could see that I was everything. In fact, in my experience, it was the very surrendering of the idea that I was some-thing that led me to the perspective that I was actually everything. I understand that this still sounds awfully close to saying that you are God but it would actually only be correct to say that God is you. After all, it is only in your absence that God appears.“ Especially the second paragraph in bold letters is not so en vogue at this forum,so…. : Probably, that won’t get many horses to drink from the Water by the River (because it, uhhh, kills, and the horses seem to dislike that mostly), but hey… gotta do it anyway. One never knows if there is a sufficiently suicidal horse that has ripened enough beyond the still well and alive ego=God crowd… A good start in 2024 to everyone!

. Very true. Imagine you invent AWAKE (tm), put in some leading edge Alien style high level exploration of manifestation, like really avant-garde relative level exploration, belittle Enlightenment (or seeing the dream sobre for what it is) because you are still looking at the show through the lenses of the still quite well and alive you—know—who. And two(!) of the forum mods you selected yourself actually get enlightened and don’t deviate a single inch from their position. Ever. Because Absolute Truth = unchanging or eternal. What are the odds for that? Ain’t God having fun and watching out for the (at least longterm) more or less healthy development of its Lila at the same time? So thanks a lot, because of that „coincidence“ Water at the River can actually enjoy his holiday on Tenerife without any need for commenting on the latest Solipsism—confusion, because it’s already handled very competently. Like the absolutely wonderful two sentence answer above. Happy holidays everyone!

The answer is the same as for every other Koan. So, what is it?

"See, if you imagine deeply enough that you're an alien from other planet that becomes your reality" I mean, who could contradict considering some events following that video? And for the aficionados of Conceptual Solipsism of green Sanskrit(?) form and of Conceptual Solipsism of the more red heart shaped form: I have a hard time balancing my good wishes in your endeavours concerning slugging it out on the relative/conceptual level, so I wish both of you good luck & success. When you are tired trying to get to the Absolute using any conceptual -ISM, (like Solipsism), maybe start considering: “The Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao. The name that can be named is not the eternal name. The nameless is the beginning of heaven and earth. The named is the mother of ten thousand things. Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one can see the manifestations. These two spring from the same source but differ in name; this appears as darkness. Darkness within darkness. The gate to all mystery.” And sit down and mediate in a non-conceptual way on who or what you really are, and what is hearing these words right now, and who or what is doing all this debating. As always, bon voyage & no increase in blood pressure while debating Selling Water by the River

Nihilism is self-contradictory. It proclaims there is no meaning. Besides the meaning that there is no meaning. So it is self-contradictory. Self-contradictory is the same as wrong. And it makes you a self-contradiction on two legs. Which is the same as suffering because of that internal conflict and contradiction. And because of that self-contradictory nature, you can (and should) forget about it when it comes to daily life. Because it can only harm your life, which happens on a relative level. Solipsism leads to Narcissism, that leads to Nihilism, and that leads to suffering. Just wait long enough and watch what happens to the aficionados of Solipsism/Narcissism/Nihilism and how they feel, write and come across. The energy you feel from them... All three have the same endgame: Suffering. And none of these three conceptual belief(!)-systems lead to stable Awakening/Enlightenment (which is non-conceptual), and resting in your True Nature of Impersonal Infinite Awareness/Suchness/Nondual Reality on a stable basis. Selling Water by the River

Little confusion of Absolute Truth and Relative Truth.... But hey, who cares if someone ruins his/her life on a relative level following such statements. Lets proclaim Enlightenment is the love of Nihilism!

... and that metabolizing (or at least the attempt of it) is quite a show. Not for the faint of heart...

Thank you for that post. Then I don't have to write something similiar, end can enjoy the sunday focusing on other endeavours. But what would happen to our little drama show here if that were not or no longer the case? One could start worrying a bit about the drama factor of the show winding down considering the possibility that certain key players get tired and actually could consider getting off the hamster mill & tail chasing. And getting tired of being only temporarily relieved in their self-contraction by grasping at the beauty of trying to understand the infinity of the manifested side of consiousness n+1 so to say. And actually winding down and ending the "you" or self-contraction, as Inliytened1 mentioned. The contraction=ego=separate self=suffering burning, dying and evaporting in the obvious omnisience of ones own True, Enternal and Infinite Being. Being replaced by the relieve of knowing ones True Self to be all arisings and manifestation, no matter how high or low or alien or eartly or n+1. Now, ever since, and forever, no matter how much confusion arises again this life or the next. But considering how much ingeniuty Infinite Reality put into the autopoiesis of the ego/separate-self delusion-arisings/Gestalt (all the way up to the very top of the mountain), probably not much to worry considering the continuation of the gig. But who knows... Selling Water by the River