Water by the River

Beautiful post. Awe or vertigo when faced with Infinity is something truly wonderful. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Awe

Guess you got the not today darling

Not at all. I asked for balanced and skillfull means. Balancing Absolute and relative, and maintaining health on a relative level. Just see how it will all develop. For me the next things that are going to happen are pretty clear now.

Well, that would be your interpretation of what I wrote. If I remember correctly I wrote something different, and with quite some more nuances. If you allow me I am not engaging with who exactly here has a big ego and who is denying that, since that would probably end in a less than harmonic way and without much benefit. I genereally prefer a debate on the topic, and not ad-hominem attacks without any specific arguments/examples. And when it comes to the topic, I will not speak of True Nature in an untruthful way just because apparently you don't really resonate with what I write. Feel free to criticize, I am not gaslit by that. And if you do that with reasons/specific arguments and not ad-hominem, even more appreciated, and probably you will also feel better doing it that way. Water by the River

Thanks. For me personally it would be enough if you also just "play the game" of being humble. It is clear that this work doesn't try to fix people's psychosis. Yes. But maybe you can monitor a bit of the effect your work has, and see if and how negative impact on the sanity on the students of your work can be minimized, with stuff like balancing relative and absolute aspects and so on. I do see a lot of blown up Ego = God posters, proclaiming all day long on this forum a form of conceptual Solipsism without the Awakenings into Pure Nondual Infinite Consciousness that are necessary to really truthfully approach that terrain . I can only imagine how that harms their relative life/jobs/education/friends/familiy/relationships.

No. That cat is out of the bag forever. But one can communicate Absolute Truth in ways which make people approach it in such a way that their life on a relative level keeps functioning and loving (Freuds definition of mental sanity btw. . Mental sanity = Able to work and love). And one can communicate it in such a way that the lower levels of being dont get harmed (that basically all essential needs of Maslow stages 1-5 are not neglected or disliked, but integrated). That is called skillfull means in Buddhism for example. And when one writes one started hating humanity on the path up the mountain (which he did), why should it be assumed that his students don't develop the same symptoms? And starting hating the lower levels of ones own being is a symptom. An allergy. And that can be avoided with skillfull means.

I agree that I adressed a very direct criticism towards you Leo in the other thread with Katie. Because that really hurt my heart. Skillful means of teaching, meeting each child (also) of Your Being, Leo, where it is at, in a balanced way integrating Absolute and relative. I know you have warning disclaimers on your videos. Yet, that will not protect some people, for example those vulnerable by Psychosis. They need in my opinion a healthy grounded approach to the Absolute, including relative means like balancing healthy relative (life) and Absolute,love, compassion, Boddhichitta and so on. And for the learning: i learn a lot here. Maybe just not exactly what you would like me to learn. And your Truth can maybe stand on its own when faced with different perspectices. I also don't call other opinions gaslighting me.

Since I am missing a bit the arguments from your side in the post above, so it is a bit challenging to reply in a meaningful way. Maybe I can say that I don't fully know what a fundamentalist non-dualist is in your definition of the term, but considering that Reality is nondual in essence there are probably worse things one can be called.

And just to not overstep the line: With what specifically in this thread?

On question 1: On a relative level yes. Although souls are a relative appearance in the Absolute, they are nevertheless as real as any other appearance. See the two books of Jürgen Ziewe on these topics. He experienced all of that in OBE first hand. He has a book on a valid Full Enlightenment process (ten minute moment). I would have spotted if that were fake. That, and his general being in his youtube videos make him trustworthy in my opinion. Question 2: I read parts of it. And I am knocking quite constantly on Gods door to reveal himself. The Totality of Being/Reality/God can be adressed in 2nd person. And how could this Totality not respond to you? After having had the experiences you had with Psychosis, that is a very truthful way to approach God/Reality/Divinity. I only criticize that path if its used to blow up ones ego with messianic grandiosity, which is not the case with you. Have you read the Course in Miracles? I didnt read it fully, but the excerpts I have seen looked beautiful. Its a Christian inspired version of the Philosophia Perennis, quite compatible with a 2nd person communication to God, but also compatible to a nondual relationship to the Divine.

There are different No-Self Awakenings in Buddhism, with more or less subtle duality left. Often the early unripe ones muddled with subtle identity are confused for True Full No-Self, which is fully nondual. Infinite. God. Absolute. At that level all is an imagined dream, God fooling itself... Comparing smaller no Self Awakenings with what Leo calls God Realization is comparing Apples with Oranges. He confirmed the Supreme Source quotes I posted as God realization. And Full Enlightenment is having that accessible in daily life without psychedelics. And without the remnants of separate self lenses colouring and denying the full stable realization while sobre. Pure impersonal infinite nondual consciouness. Being. Reality itself, a Realization not misfigured by separte self remains. Remains that make IT not quite Pure Impersonal Infinite Consciousness/Reality/Being

. I just love your posts. Full Enlightenment IS realizing the always here Truth, or ones own true infinite Being. What ones True Self and that of Reality IS. That (Full Enlightenment) happens in an awakened state, in which every form/arising/i-feeling/i-thought and every appearance of the "outer" world is directly and literally realized as mere appearance, happening in the Infinite Pure Impersonal boundless Being that Reality/You truly is. Which is the always here Reality. So not a state but Absolute Reality/God/True Nature. Afterwards its accessible and always right here, since the illusion filters have all been transcended, and "hard" boundless timeless and very empty nondual states ("or awakened states) have replaced the previous normal life with my center here/outer world/others there (duality), and the world appearing solid/external "out there". Replaced with groundless mere appearance ("clear light" in Dzogchen) arising in nondual way in infinite nondual being. And some quite amazing celestial/divine perception on how all of that if manifested from Pure Silent Infinite Consciouness to subtle realities (Awakenings/facets n+1) to gross material world and so on can develop afterwards. But for that, others are way more progressed than I am. See Harri Aalto for example. But all of that is form/manifestation. Not the essence of Absolute Reality/true You, but appearance arising in it, as IT.

Funny. Suddenly, Awakenings n+1 sound like more insights into the various facets/angles of the frog/God/Absolute Reality. And God Realization sound like Full Enlightenment. With Full Enlightenment having the benefit of sobre and permanent deep identity transformation, and its resulting access to the bliss of Absolute Reality. For divine/celestial perception after Enlightenement (or, understanding more of the relative facets of the frog), see for example Harri Aalto, David Buckland, David Spangler, and many others. In all Traditions.

Before Leo made some kind of conceptual solipsistic "Spiritainment" (not my word-creation, no credits taken) out of transcendental Truths & Absolute Truth on Youtube, certain highest "Pointing Out Instructions" on the (Absolute) Nature of Reality were only given personally and directly to eligible students who were far enough advanced concerning generating & maintaining Awakened Nondual States (meditation&practice anybody?). Because these advanced students then could understand FROM these awakened states the Pointing Out Instructions, and integrate them. In a NONCONCEPTUAL enlightened WAY, and not with conceptual solipsism madness. Doing that conceptually via Youtube-Videos apparently is a bit too much for some of the audience that the youtube-algorithm-dragnets tend to carry towards the Actualized Youtube Channel. But well, the cat is now out of the bag. It would have happened anyway in this form or another. Now it is more a question on how the author of these videos is going to further jeopardize his own Karma this life & next ones (and that of others) with denying the sane path out of that conceptual solipsistic quagmire (Enlightenment, or at least aspiring to it, including Compassion/Love/Boddhichitta or in genereal healthy relative integration of these more absolute insights), and continues to lead people more into the dark path of psychedelic Awakening n+1, neverending Infinity and abyss & less than healthy and unintegrated consequences for the aficionados. Then both Leo and his fellowship will end up with even more hatred on humanity (in general, and on their own humanity). Like an autoimmune allergy, attacking with hatred elements (humanity) of its own true body, the universe. Like a what? Yes, exactly. Anything clicking? Two forces in the Kosmos: One of delusion, and one of growth/evolution/waking up/Eros. And if Spirit decides its enough with all of that, I don't want to be in Leos shoes. And if the other Gentlemen with style keeps the upper hand, well, also no happy ending at some point in the future. Yes, I know, Katie would have gotten her Psychosis maybe anyway. But maybe not. In any way, these kind of teachings were for sure not helpful for her. And now poor mythic Jesus has to drag her out of the quagmire. Well, I guess we wish both Jesus & Katie all the best in their endevours, and a as sane as possible journey on the relative levels of reality back towards a stable relative life and freedom from psychosis. Katie, the love, energy and being that was/is Jesus will for sure respond on a relative level to you, as it did in countless other cases before. Bon voyage! Water by the River

Not my experience. There is enough useful tools in certain spiritual teachings to balance this passage to True Nondual and Absolute Being in very healthy and non-insane way. And yet realize IT in all its profound depth, which for sure is considered insane by mainstream-society. And then live healthy and compassionate IN this very society. That has been done by spiritual traditions since millenia. That is the actual Icebucket-AWAKENING-challenge: NOT to go insane, and YET realize IT. Ideas like reaching "orbital velocity away from human BS" is just coping. Essential tools are: 1) Compassion/Boddhichitta/Love, and especially 2) the two Truths Teaching of Relative Truth vs. Absolute Truth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_truths_doctrine It is only when one reinvents the wheel and thinks everyone who came before over millenia were just idiots of the *****ISM-RATS-scoundrels-unfortunate deluded souls-kind, and forgets such essential teaching tools and healthy views to balance ones AWAKENING Awakening with daily life. The outcome of which is, as we can see... well, it needs a big blind spot and a lot of love for the beloved leader to overlook that or not draw the right conclusions from that. I like the following statement: Nobody is smart enough to be wrong all the time. Why? Because then doing just the opposite of the wrong stuff one does would be perfectly right in every case. In other words: There is something to be learned from everybody. Even the Enlightenment *****ISMs. Selling Water by the River

Would it now be unpolite to say the I don't have the impression that you are completely insane? Would it be a criticism of your statement that I consider going completely insane has not (necessarily) much to do with courageous character traits/certain parts of the body? Has being insane become "en vogue" since Leos latest declarations bold explorations of (Alien?)-Insanity? It seems Water by the River definitely needs someone explaining him the most recent trends of the season...

Although the perspectives on the degree of sanity of at least certain contributors here probably varies widely, it is an interesting truth-o-meter you introduce: Too sane to be true. Or the more sane the less true.

Bravo! Apparently, essential spiritual understanding on how transcendence really works (not change the cloths/concepts/worldsviews and replace them with other cloths/concepts/worldsviews, but transcend them alltogether into pure non-conceptual Awareness, or true Awakening) still sprouts from time to time in these conceptual solipsism ignorance playfields. Awakening is not just a new insight/understanding/whatever, but a change in consciousness/Awakening. Razard, it would do you really good to consider what Leo writes in these two posts: and this here: But I already know you won't consider this, because you like manic-like posting and preaching from your favourite conceptual solipsistic bubble way too much. Ego = God. How about recommending doing actual transcendence practice, like meditation? Getting rid and transcending all these concepts/worldviews, instead of ceaselessly promoting new ones? And not just only preaching a change in conceptual worldviews and concepts? Water by the River

Yes. If I would be author of the youtube-videos causing these conceptual Solipsism Ego-Inflations, I would scream now AWAKENING. NONCONCEPTUAL NONDUAL AWAKENING. And not just some contemplating and new solipsistic Ego=God concepts/worldviews on top of the olds ones. But apparently that screaming of AWAKENING is mostly being done in other contexts, like deflating meditation/serious longterm practice, or the possibility of Realizing the True Nature of oneself and Reality, or Full Enlightenment. I mean, can it get any more obvious and unvoluntarily parody-like? I know, all these little conceptual solipsism outbursts (OMNIPOTENT) serve exactly their job of highlighting where these kind of teachings lead to, but sometimes I wonder if it is more of an intellectual-insult or really great unvoluntary parody. Or both? I truly don't know... And here the TikTok-like version of the post above:

Differentiate, transcend, integrate. Or, probably (admittedly) an even much better show: differentiate, disassociate/hate, showtime! One just needs to look at the world to see that...

All good and fine with the selfworth-topics. But lets not forget that beyond that on Maslows Pyramid is self-transdence. Overdoing self-love even got a specific character in the classics: "Narcissus, according to the poet Ovid in his Metamorphoses, is a handsome youth who falls in love with his own reflection. Unable to tear himself away, he dies of his passion, and even as he crosses the Styx continues to gaze at his reflection (Metamorphoses 3:339–510)." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narcissus_(Caravaggio)