Preetom

Hi my friend The Absolute is Absolutely Unknown Forever in Duality And yet The Absolute is what you really Are...meaning that The Absolute is really the ONLY 'thing' you ever Be or Know Btw this is such a gem of a perfect spiritual instruction! But Deep unknowing of what? Of things other than yourself, your own 1st person ''experience/knowledge'' 'I'.....all objects and perception in duality are objects of knowledge... By slowly ignoring, getting uninterested and relinquishing attachment towards this deluded, ignorant 'knowledge' of objects, you dive into the deep unknowing....then when there is absolutely nothing else to know, your own Self shines in it's full glory; the only Existence there ever is.

@Maharani Sweet summary. This relative knowledge alone should be enough to blast and evaporate all relative ignorance. If you're not lucky to have it immediately; then contemplate on this knowledge, assimilate it...until one day you have the revelation that these statements have always been your living reality. Thank you

Astute observation! Ego cannot be anything other than self destructive. Because self-destruction is the only relief it ever seeks for! Just like a moth cannot help chasing the flame, and the flame is it's death. The ego is an unreal superimposition or contraction. The only thing it ever truly wants is release...aka it's own death. In every single desire and the through the fulfillment of that desire, the ego only seeks release. Have you noticed that? While orgasming in sex, the ego seeks death. In taking drugs/alcohol to dumb down one's senses and torturing mental patterns, the ego seeks death. In watching that fav tv show and eating pizza, the ego seeks relief/death. In sleep, in introversion and hiding away from people, the ego seeks relief/death. In partying, extroversion; the ego seeks to lose itself aka it always really wants its own cessation. So on and so forth.. The ego wants happiness, but it can never get that happiness; it can only die into happiness. Because happiness/respite/relief=temporary cessation/death of the ego The beautiful example Rupert Spira gives is the moth...which ever longs for the flame but can never get the flame; it can only die in the flame. And that is the ONLY way the moth can ever experience the flame, by dying into it. So both mature, constructive egos and fickle, destructive egos are all towards the same full circle of going self destructive on itself...sooner or later. The ego is like a stretched rubber band. It can't help but pushing in the opposite direction to revert back to it's original, relaxed state. And thus when stretching force is let go of, the rubber band crashes into itself. Hitting itself with it's own self aka self-destructing itself. And that in essence the stretched rubber band ever longs for to get back to it's original, unaltered state. The biggest tragedy is the ego seeks to relieve itself of itself in the most horrible ways possible, depending on its maturity. Its intent is pure/true. But the means it adopts backfires on itself as they never fulfill the intent permanently.

@Dylan Page Hi man, you won't probably get far in this pathless path if you are continuously obsessed with every little bullshit your thoughts, emotions, beliefs, fears, projections, ideas, imagination throw at you. Both the disgusting type and sweet type bullshit. Why do you care so fucking much for your stupid little life? I mean what else do you have to lose? Just some petty stupid little fears, ideas and fantasies and self images... Fickle little things without any substance. Anyway please don't take it as a personal attack. ''39:45-41:00''

There is no 'thing' left 'after' enlightenment. All things are there as long as delusion is there, aka 'before' enlightenment

We can have this hair splitting tennis match back and forth endlessly but I tend to prefer deep inquiry experience and higher lines of reasoning instead of buying into things regarding this topic. This might be viewed as dry, theoretical non dual jargon from a nondual 'snob' (Wink wink Mr European Osho drunk on cheap Vodka ) The Self is One, whole, nondual. It doesn't have aspects/parts/dimension/ascension/decent, not at it's essence; only appears to have these superimposition in oversight. Look at your experience. How many selves does one have? The dilemma is that the ignorant self can 'think' it has parts like it's hands, emotions, circle of love etc. But upon inquiry all such fancy burns away. The Self is not a thing or an aspect. So It cannot integrate/disintegrate/cut off/accept/reject/mingle with other 'things' whatever the hell that thing is. Its literally an oxymoron to talk about the Self/Reality/Absolute in these terms. In fact any term ever uttered is a misrepresentation of the Self. And yet words and pointers like One, nondual, Consciousness, bodyless, Separate and untouched from everything, unharmable, imperturbable, existence, deathless, changeless, blissful, timeless, ever present are frequently used and regarded as the most effective way to hint towards this topic. Why? Only to counter the ingrained, ignorant and unquestioned believes, assumptions and feeling signatures of regarding the self 'I' as body, living in a world, made of matter, going through change, bound in birth and death time, fragile, unsafe, unhappy, affected by its surroundings, bound, being a separate, unfulfilled thing which needs to accumulate goodies outside of itself to complete itself..so on and so forth Anyway enough nondual jargon. I don't wanna disturb or distort any more people. PS: @mandyjw please don't misunderstand this comment as an attempt to argue with you or anyone else. Just wrote it up a complimentary for this thread like everyone else is welcome to put in their input good day

Deep down if you are in any sort of pain, be it physical, emotional or existential and overall feel tired and overwhelmed by this 'high maintenance' life we live nowadays; I invite you to ponder over this message below. For the sake of this contemplation, can you please let go of all ideas such as love, bliss, security, well being, happiness etc? Aka all the goodies you ever searched for. If you are hurt or dissatisfied now, you've already failed right? Or at least you think you or someone/somebody outside of you(including god) have failed or did something wrong. Have you started seeing the futility of this grand, bottomless project of trying to make yourself happy and secured? Has it worked? Are you completely at ease, bliss, secured, without fear and anxiety? If not, what's the percentage of progress you made in this grand project over your 10-20-30-40-50 years of lifetime? Do you see the impossibility of this game which is rigged against you? Why do you even try? Why do you still believe you can make yourself happy, secured, fulfilled permanently? Why not simply acknowledge and accept the utter fragility of yourself? Happiness and wellbeing is NOT your nature or something you deserve. When did you buy into this bullshit story? Have you lost your mind? Just look at you! If you were a Greek god with a lifetime of 10 billion years, who knows no physical or mental exhaustion, who possesses immense prowess and can survive even a planetary destruction; it would be rational to claim that such a being has legit high chance of deserving and claiming happiness, well being and permanent security. On the other hand look at you! How fragile and vulnerable you are! It takes a zillion things in proper place in your environment and psycholology to make a moment of respite for you while a minor little thing like a virus, temperature, gravity, accident, discomforting thought, tough emotion can legit screw you over. It takes like 15-20 years of healthy childhood, education and environment to have a decent, high esteemed self, while only one traumatic event or imagination can plant a deep imprint in you and screw you over badly for life! Can you simply let go and accept your vulnerability? Can you let go of this impossible project and assumption that you can actually secure yourself? Can you totally accept your fate for having pain, grief, fear, depression as your usual and natural condition and simply stop trying to make it otherwise? Just look at you trying so hard to build and maintain your sand castles in midst of a gigantic Tsunami. See how easy it is to disturb you and your fickle boundaries.. What happens if you simply give up on chasing this impossible dream? You are already bound to be screwed, right? How worse can it be? Maybe a new dimension will open up if you simply give up and accept your fate? I leave you with this message.

@Petals You're WAY eloquent with words than me. Can't thank you enough for your insightful comments in this thread. Also you're one of the very few people I've seen in this forum who really gets the essence of self inquiry and the core of Ramana's message. Thanks again. And reading through other's interesting comments it seems almost every mystical tradition addressed this primal human dilemma of constantly searching for happiness and yet not having the capacity to make itself fulfilled

Please excuse my unrefined, poor jokes sir

These are simply brief respite/pauses in the constant static of suffering and pain of bearing the burden of being embodied.

I'd question even that. Basically the twisted irony is, you are forever deprived of happiness once you form an image or idea of happiness. Exactly like how you lose yourself and devolve into a finite , fickle being the moment an idea or image of you is formed (aka the birth of an ego) The imaginary birth of this ego marks the start of this impossible dream of irresistable chasing of infinity and happiness while never actually tasting it. The ego wants to devolve infinity and happiness into a form, just like it views itself as a form. A fool's errand. And thus the nigga cries out "Why can't I get no satisfaction???" ?

This brings up the materialism vs consciousness debate all over again. Inquire! The good news is there is a possibility that you'll realize the nature of self, consciousness, happiness all at once. Exactly my point, how no one can seek anything other than relief

Haha thats a new topic for another day

Word Thanks for sharing this perspective.

Haha whats so wrong with red panty nights, fast cars and so on? Loose that tight grip of labels and judgments my friend. And relax. Perhaps one of the roles of spiritual teachers is to trigger your hidden, sneaky patterns and ways of interpreting things. I am neither justifying nor rejecting Osho. Dude had sum fun and now one with the soil of this planet. It is not about Osho. Instead introspect about why you create patterns of interpreting things that make YOU disturbed in the first place And please don't get me wrong. I didn't use the word 'drug' in a pejorative sense. The food you eat is drug, the beverage you drink is drug, the air you breathe is drug, the sex you have with your partner or alone is drug..so on and so forth. EVERYTHING is a drug if you choose to view things through Chemistry.

@DefinitelyNotARobot Relax, keep your patience and head cool. Now the important part: Try to slowly shift your attention from the thought to the 'one' who knows/watches the thought. It is not an act of forcing or suppression but a gentle shift of interest and attention. In other words you don't have the power to let go of a thought, because 'you' did not create it in the first place! It is only there due to inadvertance, it simply caught you off guard. And now you feel imprisoned inside this fiction. What you can 'do' instead, is simply depriving that thought of your precious attention. You can do it because now you have a new, mysterious and wonderful direction to redirect your attention towards: The one who knows that thought aka your own self

What is wrong with Osho? He liked to play the BIG GURU game. That was his fetish, and he played his game well. Ramana's fetish was wearing a little loincloth and roam around Arunachala without having any personal belongings. Leo's fetish is taking drugs and dropping knowledge bombs in front of a camera. So on and so forth. People come, play out their respective fetishes and return home after the game is played. No need to be distraught over it my friend.

Yes, Enlightenment frees you from the primal angst. It doesn't give you anything. It simply frees you completely from everything superimposed upon YOU due to oversight and forgetting. That's the only thing Enlightenment does. But the good news is, through any and all your conscious or unconscious motives and movements; that is really the only thing you ever long for

It usually comes when you least expect it

There are no such 'things' called furniture,walls,sofa,bed until you conceptualize them and double down on them by believing it all to be TRUE. And of course there is the simultaneous self-deception with the sneaky backward rationalization that you DID NOT conceptualize them but the furnitures are actual, independently existing physical stuff. You want proof? Where are the furnitures when you are fast asleep or not looking towards them? Aren't they still surrounding you? Or are they really 'there'? ?

Yes usually that is the case, or else everyone would be enlightened already. But almost all people misunderstand this stage and end up nesting in the objective witnessing in the name of spiritual development their entire lives. You will need to be more and more aware and also intuitively wake up to the fact that all these insights, sense of causality, spiritual/non-spiritual goodies are still things other than yourself, the real first person. From that recognition, there comes a simultaneous withdrawal of attention from 'things' and sinking into the Self. At that point, you are no longer aware 'of' ; but simply aware(that which cannot be symbolized/conceptualized) That which will either accept or deny having the 3rd stage Self-awareness, is NOT the self. It is the conscious ego; an arbitrary, fictional product of imagination. So what can I say man? Can you see the dilemma? If you're still wondering, then for your idle curiosity: Yes! how else do you think I know about the nature of Self-awareness?

Here we go. I'll describe it in 3 stages, the way I see it. Stage 1: The Unconscious Ego/self (Auto pilot/default mode) This is the default stage. The self/ego is completely lost in its experience. Completely believing all its beliefs and patterns without even knowing it is a victim of it's own products. For example, the addict ego going for a drink, the angry ego getting furious in a whim, the religious fanatic going through his/her religious routine etc.. without any idea how it happened. Stage 2: The Conscious Ego/self (Introspection/witnessing/judging) This is the stage where the ego feels itself to be conscious and being aware of it's own thoughts, emotions, patterns. Now this ego can have a WIDE range of relationships with the things it is aware of. It can judge its products, watch its products, try to separate or go into it's products or even make decision of simply 'watching' it's products non judgmentally. It's all the working of the same ego. By products, I mean all it's contents of thoughts, feelings etc. So in your vocabulary, it can either be a dysfunctional ego lost in it's self contents and feeling low self esteem or a functional mature ego which witnesses and tries to stay detached and unaffected from it's contents. But none of these stages are real Self-awareness. Stage 3: True Self-Awareness (Nondual, being aware of absolutely nothing but 'I' alone) Words CANNOT explain it. ANYTHING said about this, is a misdirection and not the actual deal. You can only taste it first hand. How? Its when you cease knowing ANYTHING other than yourself. Every single 2nd and 3rd person are gone aka all thoughts, feelings, sensations, time, space, beliefs etc. When you are 'aware' of 'I' alone, that is Self-Awareness, that is enlightenment. The Self is always in awareness. It's not something it does, it IS Self-awareness itself. If you practice self-inquiry, this is the place you end up eventually if you're diligent. Nothing can be said about this stage. There is absolutely no knowledge of anything other than 'I'. There is no sense of time, space, body, nothing, everything, consciousness, being, fear, motive, objectivity... Yet you remain (that too as an after thought) That's my take on this issue

NO NO NO what you described is still self/ego-consciousness with a sneaky layer of half-assed stoicism/witness/detached feel to it. Self-awareness is entirely different ballgame. You'll get its true feel if you've gotten deeper into self inquiry practice. And this is auto pilot or default state.

It's a 2 minute clip from Leo's recent awakening video where things backfire and trolls get created

Ugghh the trolls God has to deal with everyday! Jokes aside, Leo's newest live awakening video really displays many meta teachings so well. Not what he is saying or trying to convey; but the consequence of that video. It clearly shows how devil operates. If Leo is spreading the 'Truth'; the devil must find a way to diverge that into something. And thus we have the trolls and critiques about the amazon guy, being noob omniscient, blurring portions of his video etc and etc. It also shows what an inefficient and misleading medium language/symbols are when it comes to conveying Truth. Absolute consciousness, Love, Will, Omniscience, singularity..every single thing Leo trying to talk about always, ALWAYS is founded upon 2 basic premise 1) An objectively independent material world/things/universe 2) An independently existing all powerful self There is no other way too. It's not Leo's fault per se. You can't utter a sentence which does not imply those 2 assumptions over and over again. So the dilemma is that Leo is trying convey Truth as God. But that transmission is being distorted into assumptions and statements about a physical universe (being conscious/aware/omniscient of things) and an all powerful God self(which the Leo puppet is trying to mimic)