kbone

What, in your clearest and best understanding, compels you at this point? Bring this into as simple a focus as possible. I’d suggest not stirring the mind quite so much. Nothing wrong with a trip, either expansive or subdued. But you’ve never actually left HERE.

Worth noting that when you are contemplating "knowledge" (or what is known), you're using mind to think about and/or connect what it knows (concepts, ideas, seemingly meaningful projections, etc). Nothing wrong with that. But when getting to the crux of Realization/Actualization, it's not so much a knowledgeable "thing", but a transcendence of the mind's paradigm altogether. And I mean, an absolute break from it. Once it happens, there's no real "going back"... as it may be akin to a psychological allergy of sorts, hehe. Again, articulating the view from, or the pointing back to, Source are events that happen in Consciousness .... the Oneness that one already IS and is being sought (all three are just conceptual labels of the same non-thing). It's not a knowledgeable thing, per se, which is why "teachers" often used to refer to it as things like "Supreme Knowledge" and the like. I typically use "Realization" to distinguish it from "knowledge", because it seems to make sense to do so. They're not to be confused, but the mind will typically try to bring such views/pointing down to its level, and require it to make sense to it. It doesn't. It only makes sense to Intelligence.

Maybe JBP is just doing the best he can, and just so happens has become fond of making a lot of money doing it. Will the fondness be a distraction? It's certainly possible. I haven't read any of his books and have only skimmed the self-help character of his writing and some explorations of religious ideas in a few lectures. Seems that he's mostly occupied with approaching chaos with the mind to bring it into order, or something or other. Maybe it is related to the unconscious fears that inhabit his psyche due to the illnesses that he has mentioned (not really sure what they are). Not sure, but his approach does betray a certain level of suffering, it seems. There might be some value to attempting to bring mental order to chaos, because in the effort, it may become apparent that such implied control will not be on the apparent world, nor even of the mind. It could further the potential for realizing what is NOT true, thus understanding the limitations of mind as a tool. Until then, his mind will likely maintain its hegemony over him as his master.

@Ivan Dimi ? Hope it helped jiggle a little clarity on the context.

@28 cm unbuffed That is an aspect of tuning into "being in the flow", which the psych may be registering as being "enough of an expansion" for right now. I don't know where you live in Poland, but having worked through this mind-body's own Eastern European Catholic heritage's constraints, it may be that you are attracted to the potentials for expansion that you feel your present physical/cultural conditions are not fertile ground for. I don't know; I'm just throwing it out there for your consideration. There will be twists and turns as minds go, but your working toward the realization that the NOW is actually within THAT which you are. (Tat Tvam Asi) Persist.

@mmKay True, a new physical location is not THE answer (not that there really is one), because wherever one goes, there one is.... and one generally has WAY TOO MUCH unconscious baggage, hehe. That said, a new environment can help loosen up the mind a little, though it won't necessarily be the work of consciously transcending it.

Ask yourself what it is that you are REALLY looking for. Be intense as you can about it. Notice that almost every answer is your mind's way of saying "more". Be honest about it. Realize that it's a mind trick. Be clear about it, Work your way backwards.... until you take that last step. It's a doozy. When/if it happens, it will be the first taste of being awake, but the mind will grasp at the emptiness like never before....pulling you back into the dream, lulling your sense of being back to sleep.

@28 cm unbuffed Awesome to hear of your impetus for change. Be aware that the whole immigration thingy in the US is a mess right now, so it may take some time and patience. That said, start doing the needed research/online digging to see what ducks you'll need to line up. Plus, make sure to see if NYC is the place you really wanna go, but yeah, not saying you shouldn't. Opportunity is where you find it, and clarity is what it is. Persist.

True. More like an observable sign post along the pathless way.

@Tim Ho Sure, science is "real" in an imaginary "reality", much like unicorns. What messes with peeps' minds is the fact that what is considered "more real" is mostly a value or function proposition, which is why science typically gets at least little more of the upper hand when compared with unicorns. Notice: No unicorns' feelings were hurt in the writing of this post, but some scientists might object to not being considered objective in the grand scheme of what is actually thingless.

@Romer02 The concept of free will deserves its own thread, imo... maybe it already exists, dunno. Thoughts invariably arise as Consciousness touches conditioned mind, also "made of" and IN Consciousness. You could think of "appearing existence" as a denser form of imagined being, as opposed to the BEING that is actual at the non-local core of it all. The illusion of self is such a mind thingy, and the phenomenon of memory makes it a persistent illusion at that.

@Ivan Dimi You might say QPh is a much subtler realization at the level of observable and semi-repeatable experimentation in that it brings into question the subject-object duality and even call into question whether or not there actually is an objective material universe. It brought in the paradox which also started to question the limitations of mind itself which was, up until that point, doing the observation. Sure enough, stuff got weird. It also just happens to mark when and where scientists started to sound less like model builders and more like mystics. They went all spooky on the mainstream, hehe. It was a little like old-school priests versus "new age" spiritual leaders, when a distinction arose between those who just wanted to believe enough to feel good and keep the family and neighbors happy, and those who needed a taste of the real thing just to be able to stay in their own skin.

@Preety_India Aaaah, yes! Gotta have a lil tender loving slappening!! ?

@blackchair Prolly a good idea.

@Conscious life It is possible to realize it all is imagined in/as the" Mind of God"... Consciousness ... whatever you wanna call it. No thing or pre-requisite is needed for Realization. It's more like the absence of ignorance, one might say. Perhaps, there is the imagined slog across the dreamscape to get HERE though! ?

@Mesopotamian Science is another group of shadows on Plato's cave. Notice how much it keeps changing and the stuff imagined into existence continues to disappear into the sands of time. Beautiful display of life unfolding, blossoming, and dying into Oneness. The stuff dreams are made of...

@AleksM It would seem that looking inside for "connecting behavior to causes/consequences" is more of a rational/analytical use of the mind for looking at itself and drawing conclusions, while being mindful might be a little more "sense/feeling oriented", which is of the mind-body, and at a more holistic level. People are often addicted to thinking, and that can be problematic. I can see how the latter might allow an insight to arise, which might "present" you with the goals of the said rational approach, but would more like a transrational/ transpersonal phenomenon.... I'd say it is more advantageous in that respect.

@28 cm unbuffed Yes, keep in mind that whatever is paradoxical is born of the rational mind. To settle into that might loosen up the insight that puts mind out front. Typically, people think realizations are "of the mind", but the realizations are prior to mind... true Intelligence~Consciousness. Yes, mind can be a trickster, but mostly because it has ruled the roost for your entire life.... from/as an illusionary center we often call the ego. Ever found one? The whole act of the search is carried out to find what is ACTUALLY looking. --> ACTUAL SOURCE

@28 cm unbuffed No one can say when/if such a process will ever end. Would you say you are still disoriented right now, as in you have woken up and are free and just don't know what to do? Or do you feel like you're still in the painful rebirth process? I am curious, because you state you "try to do" things to get to or stay in a certain state; whereas, Realization might be more akin to "already HERE", and all is arising, nowhere to go to get HERE. Just note: Consciousness (with capital C) is distinguished from consciousness in how I might chat about it. The former can only be Realized; whereas, the latter is a conceptual term that has various meanings attached to it like sleep/waking states or studies in Western science, etc. In how I'd point to it, when Consciousness is realized, there is no self... and that can really be destabilizing to the mind, where the ego is housed as a structure of thought. This is why I'm pinging you to find out what it is that you are working with. Often, peeps try to make sense of pretty profound realizations with the mind, and it just gets whacky, more confusing and things can go south pretty quickly. If that's the case, it can be important to distinguish and/or bring into greater clarity that there is a movement in/as Consciousness prior to it touching the mind where Oneness is bifurcated (duality). You're not crazy, but 99.5+% of humanity will not understand WTF you're on about, and that's not their "fault per se, but it ain't going to help you out to see them rolling their eyes at you. Realization is like Knowing that there is only THIS (Consciousness with what is happening, including all thoughts arising, in/as Consciousness) and not identifying with any of it, but still able to freely interact via the individuated dream character (the previously identified self). ~ kinda weird, I know... It's so simple and plain that the mind/ego selfplex rejects such a notion, as it alludes to its non/illusionary existence. But, it's basically what Jesus reportedly pointed to when he said, "I and the Father are One"... kind of nonduality in cultural terms present at that time. No one can say what Truth is or how to get there... a little touch of grace is sometimes referred to as being "necessary", so the general idea of meditation might be to make oneself prone. But, in the end, there's no real cause-effect relationship that "one can do to make it happen". I AM would be similar, but for the sake of discussion, maybe we can think of it as just a very subtle sense Being as presence, but not quite Knowing... just the sensory with a slight tinge of self awareness. Maybe one can think of it as feeling around the imagined edges of existing. Seems like one would likely have taken the conscious choice to meditate into this state. Flow consciousness is a state most anyone has experienced. There is no self awareness as one is totally enmeshed within the flow of consciousness, likely through an activity or a spontaneous flow in nature or something. Athletes, drivers, doctors, teachers, anyone can slip into this state, and there is plenty of research that kind zones in on this. There is no real "training" or seeking or whatever really required. When you say "curative", are you alluding to like a healing process that might be playing out?

@28 cm unbuffed Not to sound to other worldish, but it's likely you're starting to go through a rebirth of sorts, into a life more aligned with your true nature, which is part of the original Greek school of the Cynics. "As reasoning creatures, people can gain happiness by rigorous training and by living in a way which is natural for themselves, rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, and fame. Instead, they were to lead a simple life free..." I'm not serving up any forms of practice or saying you must go through austerities, but you may find any number of them useful to varying degrees, depending on your temperament, desires, addiction to thinking, sense of sanity, etc. Ones conditioned thinking is "the web" that you are caught in; it's a closed-system structure with a belief in an illusionary "I/self" around, for and to which all things appear and/or happen. So, you've mentioned "doing stuff all the time", and you seem to notice that this keeps you out of your head where all the pattern of said structure start to congeal, thus forming the repetitive senses of being trapped or imprisoned, looking for a way out of the mindscape you've seemingly found your self "in". Does that sound about right? Do you think it is possible to Realize Oneness with/as the Consciousness in which all the above is happening? I do not mean to "understand" it as a theory of some sort (which is born of the mind), but to truly Realize and be unshakeable (which is unborn/prior to mind). Note: If this all sounds like gibberish to you and/or you think I may be messing with your head, just let me know. I'm attempting to throw a bucket of ice water on you, or at least get a coordinate on where you are in there.... Matrix style, hehe. Disclaimer: I am not a teacher, but I may be able to motivate you or piss you off just enough to get off your ass and make the next step ?. You need to unlearn what your conditioned mind (i.e., your past) is telling you. The mind can be a wonderful tool, but it makes a terrible master.

What you are experiencing is the limitation and prison of mind. You sense there is something "more", but by drawing on a conditioned set of responses, you find yourself coming to a seemingly endless set of dead ends where you thought or expected there might be something more joyous or stimulating. Do you think that what you are ultimately looking for is "out there" and/or being able to keep stringing along worldly satisfying activities? Or, do you sense that there might actually be "something" that is seemingly just out of reach or hidden beyond the veil?

Good stuff. Yes, mind often steps in "to take credit" for having accomplished something in such realizations. To innerstand that mind appears in the Consciousness that Oneness is opens up the possibility to realize that without the movement of mind, there is no I. Boom.