kbone

Well I walk upon the river like it's easier than land Evil's in my pocket and your will is in my hand Oh, your will is in my hand And I'll throw it in the current that I stand upon so still Love is all, from what I've heard, but my heart's learned to killOh, mine has learned to kill Oh, I said I could rise From the harness of our goals Here come the tears But like always, I let them go Just let them go And now spikes will keep on falling from the heavens to the floor The future was our skin and now we don't dream anymoreNo, we don't dream anymore Like a house made from spider webs and the clouds rolling in I bet this mighty river's both my savior and my sin Oh, my savior and my sin Oh, I said I could rise From the harness of our goals Here come the tears But like always, I let them go Just let them go Well I walk upon the river like it's easier than land Evil's in my pocket and your strength is in my hand Your strength is in my hand And I'll throw you in the current that I stand upon so still Love is all, from what I've heard, but my heart's learned to kill Oh, mine has learned to kill Oh, I said I could rise From the harness of our goals Here come the tears But like always, I let them go Just let them go

Yes, he has a very practical, down-to-earth expression. The simplicity, ironically, is overwhelming for the mind. To “find” what cannot be lost seems paradoxical to the mind, but as you say/allude to, it is pre-verbal awareness that Knows that only the mind, full of the past, the fear, the desire for “more”, the endless conditions for happiness, etc. cannot understand. Sat-Chit-Ananda

Science, as a whole, seems to start with the premise that stuff exists, and some of it becomes conscious and, therefore, can "possess consciousness". It kinda snorta has its own conditioning, as a system of thought. 'S okay, no biggie. In Truth, all exists in/as Consciousness. <to which science rolls its eyes> Whoopsy daisy.

I answered you're question directly. But, sure, I'll leave this thread if you really think it helps you find the specific answer you're looking for. G'luck, man.

Answerers beware. He's no longer asking for things that can be judged as "inner guru" speak. He just wants folks to read into and get lost in the nuances of the questions in order to feel the confusion. ? The confusion simply arises from mind, with its conditioned patterns. And most are used to figuring stuff out.... with their minds.

The sun is rising though I cannot see my house is in the way

@ajai ? Yes! Osho had a way of annoying the crap outta peeps! Nice addition to the convo here.

Yes, it is interesting why peeps believe. But, that's not a question about God, Truth, non-duality that you began with. It's a question about why does conditioned thinking give rise to such apparent beliefs. Why questions about the former are misconceived, while questions about the latter are about the apparent phenomenal world of the drama. The confusion you spoke of originally was mixing up the two. Are you confused?

@Gesundheit What Is sees these both as conceptual notions. Pointing attempts to arrest the mind, if not for just a glimpse of what IT IS, completely free of the mind's gravity. To be clear, you are approaching this identified with the mind's constructs. The words used to point are flying by. The more you think, the more you will fail, but that is OK... such futility is required, apparently. neti neti

The questions seem to be wrestling with the mind-made conceptions and conclusions about what God, consciousness, and non-duality are VERSUS what they are truly Realized to actually Be. Anyone can read and think about them and just decide they are "truth", but that will not settle the division that still exists in one's mind... and subsequently still identifies with/as. The sum of parts will not realize Wholeness. It is the questions that give rise to the search. They will linger on and on, sometimes with intensity and sometimes with brief and very revealing realizations.. That last step back, looking for broader AND more in-depth look, is a doozy. There is no "other".

Yes, as one goes deeper and deeper into the Realization, it is very clearly seen why the dream metaphor is so useful in understanding what many call reality. When any self is seen as the illusion that they are, things do take on a very dreamy feel. The first taste can be quite destabilizing, to be sure, but you get the knack for it. The Jungian studies of dreams can help one look into this very similar phenomenon. He also did some very interesting work with Tibetan Tantricism and spiritual transformation which might be useful to some. As always, I say to just go for it if it strikes your interest. Let some light in, but stay devoted to Truth Realization. Only Truth will set one free. Any idea of self is realized to be a bird in an empty cage.

@bliss54 After living abroad for most of my adult life, I can sympathize with your state of mind. Every time I returned to visit and/or live for a short while, there was a period of relative fun, but then it wore off and I'd slip into the correlative funk. To get a small grasp of this, read fairly in-depth studies of the phenomenon known as the stages of culture shock, but in this case it is called re-entry shock/reverse culture shock. (Studies on Repatriation) The interesting thing is that these models can also be seen as somewhat helpful in the process of awakening, when one realizes one ain't in Kansas anymore, hehe (a cultural allusion to The Wizard of Oz, btw). I taught intercultural communication for many years, used the various models of development in classes, and continued to clarify certain similarities in my mind about awakening and realization, and it was very helpful to get to, what I call, HERE --- Hint: There is nowhere "else" outside of NOW. But, to your point, what you are going through is normal, and is part of the process. You've stepped outside the cultural barriers, experienced otherness to some degree, shared some great stories, but here you are feeling low. It's okay. This phase will pass, too. It can pass more quickly and fruitfully if you go into it as consciously as possible by watching your mind using the education you derive from your studies on reverse culture shock, and in the spirit of Delphic maxim, "Know Thyself". Feel free to follow up. Peace~

@xxxx Prediction is mostly about probabilities of events unfolding, so in essence it is the ability to see patterns developing in progress. I do believe some peeps have greater degrees of sensitivities to these patterns and the contexts in which they are developing, so sure. I would not go as far as to say that peeps can "tell the future". There is a difference. Even the siddhis, the special powers that arise during "spiritual development", talk a bit about predictive abilities or reading minds. Sometimes they can be quite powerful, but even then, the greater teachers will tell one to pay them no attention (or that they can become traps) when on the quest for Truth.

The Void is more indicative of a complete and absolute break from the "thing-filled" consciousness that one has assumed to make up the "sum of life". There is a someNothing (Void) in which all such things, be they thoughts, breath, hard 'physical' objects, or otherwise... appear. Both terms are just conceptual pointers, but I do find much less for the mind to "hold on to" when using the term Void. It's annoying as hell for the mind, which is very indicative as the desire for control and will. The Void avoids the traps of being given personal qualities, or even divine, for that matter. As such, Truth Realization is very rare indeed. Awake as/within/to the Dream of Consciousness.... Pure Awareness.... Void.

@StarStruck I was able to flip through the 10 pages of feedback and your replies. It sounds like you have been living in your head up until the present and have not developed a sincere connection with (and, therefore, understanding of) your emotional body-self. This is quite normal for men, and you shouldn't think of yourself as deficient; after all, the emotions are there, and are just now becoming more apparent, pronounced, and confusing. It's natural to feel a little unbalanced, or even manic ~ out of control. Relax. “The heart has its reasons which reason knows nothing of... We know the truth not only by the reason, but by the heart." - Blaise Pascal At the risk of stereotyping, it is likely women have a greater sensitivity to these emotional frequencies, whether they are conscious of it or not. According to the Triune Brain studies, women's cerebral cortex evidently have many more connections with the limbic system (the paleo-mammalian part of the brain); whereas, men's cerebral cortex has more connections with the reptilian brain stem associated with the 4Fs (fight, flight, food, and fucking). It's not that men's brains have "no connections", it's just that, on average, they're a little less hard wired for dealing with emotions. With modern society feeding into the constant impulses, it appears that such phenomena have become more pronounced. For men that means access to more addictive porn, intense video games, guns, and foods that are terrible for your mind-body. You are not trapped; you are learning another part of your human nature and, thus, are becoming more adult-like after the years of ignoring the trauma of your childhood (or so it sounds like). If you are seeing a psychotherapist, then you should be EXTREMELY proactive. Study yourself, take notes, and ask hard questions to your therapist that you truly feel you are WANT to explore. The therapist is a pro with their theory.... ONLY YOU know what's actually being explored. Go into sessions with an agenda, regardless of what actually becomes of it. Become somewhat monomaniacal if you have to. It may also be that, due to the lack of exposure to girls/women in your life up until now, your EQ is not developed. So, your emotional outlook tends to be much more self-oriented, rather than empathetic or capable of sensing another person's feelings or intentions. In a way, this likely makes you feel more disoriented and unworthy of love and caring. Fear and it's well-grooved limitations set in. That's a mind-made trap. In short, it mimics the patterns of behavior and outcomes you experienced as a child. It draws you into an orbit, one that sticks close to the patterns of behavior you unconsciously walked and talked as a child in your mother's (lack of) care. Fuck that shit; free that child to try new ways, make mistakes, learn, love, and expand. To be clear, this is just a sense I am getting, and not to be construed as "your truth". I am providing it here as a means for YOU to get fucking proactive in your approach and break beyond any sense of powerlessness or feeling trapped. It takes courage to make mistakes and learn from them.... and GROW for fucks sake. Use journaling to write out hard truths to yourself. Allow it to get as messy as it needs to get... this is messy stuff. Explore what you perceive as boundaries (hint: they are just layers of self to be transcended). For example, what are the three most important take aways you got from that other thread? Be clear, take a stand for that unhealthy child inside, be the adult in the room (i.e., of your mind). This is very doable. At times, you will need to interact more with women, whether anonymously or in person. Open up, be touchy-feely, or just blunt honest, or try some passionate-about-life overtones... whatever. You can reach out to men about some of this, but I have found most (not all) men to be mostly agenda-driven in their convos when it comes to women, rather than authentic. Again, that is not always true, but there really is no substitute for the real deal.

I didn't look through the whole archive, but didn't see anything specifically on peer-evaluated or empirical research on the topics at hand. I thought I'd start one. If there is already one, feel free to let me know, and I'll copy-n-paste and delete this one. Knowing that such experiences are not rational in their origin, it is still cool that there is ongoing research that looks into these topics. If you know of, have, or want to share links, please add them with a small topic header. I usually just skim and scan for the stuff of interest. ? Two Modes of Sudden Spiritual Awakening? Ego-Dissolution and Explosive Energetic Awakening https://digitalcommons.ciis.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1593&context=ijts-transpersonalstudies Secular ecstasies https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-27/edition-3/secular-ecstasies An awakening https://thepsychologist.bps.org.uk/volume-31/september-2018/awakening Psychosis and Spirituality: Consolidating the New Paradigm (download pdf) https://www.researchgate.net/publication/6246808_Psychosis_and_Spirituality_Consolidating_the_New_Paradigm_Second_Edition

@xxxx Yes, just walking away from society and into the mountains/forests/highlands was an important aspect for this mind-body. The simplicity of life and the splendor of nature in its majesty and details were much needed when faced with the massive monkey mind shenanigans that I, literally, asked the universe to show me. It got pretty wild, needless to say, hehe. Be careful what you ask for! ???

Your honesty is refreshing, as is your willingness to search and be open. Relatively speaking, I would say that serious trauma can create very "hard boundaries", so be gentle in the approach. Your psyche has had enough of the "hard school", perhaps. I do not take trauma lightly when I sense someone n the throes of that kind of suffering. The insight you realized sounds like it was an important taste, and you are at least experientially aware of the "jolt of freedom" experienced. And sure, the mind character, interestingly, wants "more" as the feeling held in memory surpassed any form of induced high that one might have felt - acausal realizations are more powerful and, therefore, grounding that the induced psychedelic ones. Yeah, going into that sort of atmosphere with too much unresolved baggage and without proper guide/support can be a bit too much for the psyche, as well. Question: Which of the following is harder on you psychologically: Feeling trapped in the persona, not able to accept beauty and love into life... or perhaps not feeling worthy of it. Feeling anxiety toward the character/events in childhood that perpetrated the trauma.... not able to forgive, wanting to blame. The obvious combination of both, and more... You might even start another thread if you want to explore it. If not, I completely understand. Sometimes, it is good to reach out for ideas to jostle around and loosen up some paths to explore. At other times, a little time in the cocoon can be just what is needed. All depends on how you sense you want to proceed. Just keep in mind that, for the most part, you are not here to take on a bunch of extra knowledge and practices, though they indeed might come as part of the journey, right? Use them, and be willing to discard them if they don't apply. If you do need them again, they will come. But, the real goal is to unweave or see through the web that is holding this present structure together as a closed system. The structure of self is impermanent and only given the power you bestow upon it. Mind is the set of tools for creating, maintaining, and destroying that structure. Being conscious of the tools is being the master of that domain, freed of its unconscious bondage. Slowly simplify and become consciously aware of how your mind has been conditioned. No hurry.

? Melting can get pretty bright.

@UnbornTao The First Joke: Exploring the Evolutionary Origins of Humor Spirituality and Humor Concepts of Laughter and Humor in the Sociology of Religion

@nistake Yeah, the Awareness of the Oneness via the realization of Nothingness.... minds often struggle as they try to bring it down to make sense to its own worldview. He did a g'job.

Are either conditional? Would you say that either "helps" ego?

Good, this is a much clearer assertion than the previous one. It also sounds more "authentic", and less like some platitude. So, when you say you haven't "realized enlightenment", are you saying that you still believe in a self to whom such traumatic experiences happened and, thus, are subject to its limitations? What did Intelligence tell the mind during the glimpses?

In certain ways, I can agree. The problem is that, while sounding nice, what does it really mean or allude to?

All that appears or experienced is what is projected. Most peeps identify with what is appearing and/or being experienced as the life of a self and its memories. What you have labeled as "Godhead consciousness" is likely alluding to what is witnessing the appearances/experiences, and it is not a thing, nor an agent.... more like a radical creating Subjectivity. It cannot be seen by the individuated self with the mind's eye , because it is prior to that movement of thought/conceptualization. True Realization is getting a taste of this deeper/deepest Intelligence, and it makes no sense to the mind.