kbone

@Preety_India Aaaah, yes! Gotta have a lil tender loving slappening!! ?

@blackchair Prolly a good idea.

@Conscious life It is possible to realize it all is imagined in/as the" Mind of God"... Consciousness ... whatever you wanna call it. No thing or pre-requisite is needed for Realization. It's more like the absence of ignorance, one might say. Perhaps, there is the imagined slog across the dreamscape to get HERE though! ?

@Mesopotamian Science is another group of shadows on Plato's cave. Notice how much it keeps changing and the stuff imagined into existence continues to disappear into the sands of time. Beautiful display of life unfolding, blossoming, and dying into Oneness. The stuff dreams are made of...

@AleksM It would seem that looking inside for "connecting behavior to causes/consequences" is more of a rational/analytical use of the mind for looking at itself and drawing conclusions, while being mindful might be a little more "sense/feeling oriented", which is of the mind-body, and at a more holistic level. People are often addicted to thinking, and that can be problematic. I can see how the latter might allow an insight to arise, which might "present" you with the goals of the said rational approach, but would more like a transrational/ transpersonal phenomenon.... I'd say it is more advantageous in that respect.

@28 cm unbuffed Yes, keep in mind that whatever is paradoxical is born of the rational mind. To settle into that might loosen up the insight that puts mind out front. Typically, people think realizations are "of the mind", but the realizations are prior to mind... true Intelligence~Consciousness. Yes, mind can be a trickster, but mostly because it has ruled the roost for your entire life.... from/as an illusionary center we often call the ego. Ever found one? The whole act of the search is carried out to find what is ACTUALLY looking. --> ACTUAL SOURCE

@28 cm unbuffed No one can say when/if such a process will ever end. Would you say you are still disoriented right now, as in you have woken up and are free and just don't know what to do? Or do you feel like you're still in the painful rebirth process? I am curious, because you state you "try to do" things to get to or stay in a certain state; whereas, Realization might be more akin to "already HERE", and all is arising, nowhere to go to get HERE. Just note: Consciousness (with capital C) is distinguished from consciousness in how I might chat about it. The former can only be Realized; whereas, the latter is a conceptual term that has various meanings attached to it like sleep/waking states or studies in Western science, etc. In how I'd point to it, when Consciousness is realized, there is no self... and that can really be destabilizing to the mind, where the ego is housed as a structure of thought. This is why I'm pinging you to find out what it is that you are working with. Often, peeps try to make sense of pretty profound realizations with the mind, and it just gets whacky, more confusing and things can go south pretty quickly. If that's the case, it can be important to distinguish and/or bring into greater clarity that there is a movement in/as Consciousness prior to it touching the mind where Oneness is bifurcated (duality). You're not crazy, but 99.5+% of humanity will not understand WTF you're on about, and that's not their "fault per se, but it ain't going to help you out to see them rolling their eyes at you. Realization is like Knowing that there is only THIS (Consciousness with what is happening, including all thoughts arising, in/as Consciousness) and not identifying with any of it, but still able to freely interact via the individuated dream character (the previously identified self). ~ kinda weird, I know... It's so simple and plain that the mind/ego selfplex rejects such a notion, as it alludes to its non/illusionary existence. But, it's basically what Jesus reportedly pointed to when he said, "I and the Father are One"... kind of nonduality in cultural terms present at that time. No one can say what Truth is or how to get there... a little touch of grace is sometimes referred to as being "necessary", so the general idea of meditation might be to make oneself prone. But, in the end, there's no real cause-effect relationship that "one can do to make it happen". I AM would be similar, but for the sake of discussion, maybe we can think of it as just a very subtle sense Being as presence, but not quite Knowing... just the sensory with a slight tinge of self awareness. Maybe one can think of it as feeling around the imagined edges of existing. Seems like one would likely have taken the conscious choice to meditate into this state. Flow consciousness is a state most anyone has experienced. There is no self awareness as one is totally enmeshed within the flow of consciousness, likely through an activity or a spontaneous flow in nature or something. Athletes, drivers, doctors, teachers, anyone can slip into this state, and there is plenty of research that kind zones in on this. There is no real "training" or seeking or whatever really required. When you say "curative", are you alluding to like a healing process that might be playing out?

@28 cm unbuffed Not to sound to other worldish, but it's likely you're starting to go through a rebirth of sorts, into a life more aligned with your true nature, which is part of the original Greek school of the Cynics. "As reasoning creatures, people can gain happiness by rigorous training and by living in a way which is natural for themselves, rejecting all conventional desires for wealth, power, and fame. Instead, they were to lead a simple life free..." I'm not serving up any forms of practice or saying you must go through austerities, but you may find any number of them useful to varying degrees, depending on your temperament, desires, addiction to thinking, sense of sanity, etc. Ones conditioned thinking is "the web" that you are caught in; it's a closed-system structure with a belief in an illusionary "I/self" around, for and to which all things appear and/or happen. So, you've mentioned "doing stuff all the time", and you seem to notice that this keeps you out of your head where all the pattern of said structure start to congeal, thus forming the repetitive senses of being trapped or imprisoned, looking for a way out of the mindscape you've seemingly found your self "in". Does that sound about right? Do you think it is possible to Realize Oneness with/as the Consciousness in which all the above is happening? I do not mean to "understand" it as a theory of some sort (which is born of the mind), but to truly Realize and be unshakeable (which is unborn/prior to mind). Note: If this all sounds like gibberish to you and/or you think I may be messing with your head, just let me know. I'm attempting to throw a bucket of ice water on you, or at least get a coordinate on where you are in there.... Matrix style, hehe. Disclaimer: I am not a teacher, but I may be able to motivate you or piss you off just enough to get off your ass and make the next step ?. You need to unlearn what your conditioned mind (i.e., your past) is telling you. The mind can be a wonderful tool, but it makes a terrible master.

What you are experiencing is the limitation and prison of mind. You sense there is something "more", but by drawing on a conditioned set of responses, you find yourself coming to a seemingly endless set of dead ends where you thought or expected there might be something more joyous or stimulating. Do you think that what you are ultimately looking for is "out there" and/or being able to keep stringing along worldly satisfying activities? Or, do you sense that there might actually be "something" that is seemingly just out of reach or hidden beyond the veil?

Good stuff. Yes, mind often steps in "to take credit" for having accomplished something in such realizations. To innerstand that mind appears in the Consciousness that Oneness is opens up the possibility to realize that without the movement of mind, there is no I. Boom.