Natasha Tori Maru

@Leo Gura BOUNCE LIKE A KANGAROO & GET THE FUCK IN HERE TO EXPERIENCE THE LOVE

Self enquiry - am I that? What am I? What am I NOT? etc

@Joshe It could be just the next step? True self stares at you point black after the illusory ego-self is directly seen through You will face the question 'Why is there something, rather than nothing?' True self - the oneness, unity, love and clarity part The silence

Yes it reveals how hollow it is - literally! The attention goes elsewhere, from abundance, rather than lack. You can still generate material things, but they are a by-product and no longer the main focus. Just a means to some end. Just in my personal experience - apathy did not arise at all for me. The spiritual process has been one of clarification. If one experiences the total unity and oneness, it becomes hard to neglect responsibility. I do what I do, to help. To give back, to express love. I look after myself with honour and respect, so I can be there 100% for those that need it.

I love how wildly different everyone's experience is! My experience with spirituality cemented my resolve, love, awe and inspiration to commit to expressing myself within limited reality. The pointer went smack bang right back to where it IS. I felt a totally renewed interest in perusing reality and expression, from abundance, rather than any lack. This time, in REAL authenticity

@Joshe Just curious - is the above based on your experience?

39:46 For remote viewing. This is Joe McMoneagle, the CIA’s Remote Viewer No. 1 Try this website - https://intuitivespecialists.com/target-pool/ Turn off your thinking mind. Turn off the ego. No thoughts. It helps if you have a lot of meditation experience and know how to 'empty'. It helps if you know how to visually deconstruct your perceptions. Art and creativity training help. See how you go

@Emotionalmosquito Thích Quảng Đức Apparently - the monk's heart did not burn. Not even upon his re-cremation. It is amazing we have this image, as with the advent of AI, these could be faked. It is also the cover art for a self-titled Rage Against the Machine album.

The reflexes and brain are for certain the body (to me, anyway). If a reflex a choice though?

So do we think we are the body?

There would be an implication something else is present to exert it's will on us? Do you think unconscious behaviour is not originating from 'self'? Not saying yes or no either way

Feel free to go into this. Perhaps you mean it can be misunderstood? But just judging without presenting an argument is sort of empty, no?

Regardless of if the boy understood the action and consequences - did the boy not start smoking cigarettes himself? He purchased or obtained them, lit the cigarette and smoked it. If there are permanent neural changes, these may generate impulses. But the self still decided to take up the smoking. Who else did that?

Everyone is in process. What was the intention behind this post?

I think this internalized shame due to self blame is a huge issue for most on the path. It seems to arise from a moral judgement made against the self when it is revealed the self is the doer. 'I am doing something wrong' There is no wrong Just a realization and correction. A mentor once told me 'The self needs to be healthy and whole before it can be realized for the illusion it is. Otherwise, repression and bypassing.'

@theleelajoker Thank you for sharing and being vulnerable! I do think it is most important, firstly, to attend to serious material considerations/limitations. It could be brain chemistry, environment, toxins, genetics - these are all concrete elements of reality that cannot be bypassed with simple mindfulness and meditation/contemplation. No one should hold themselves to a standard that is completely unrealistic for them. It ends up acting in opposition to the process: we introduce another method that we 'failed' at. And we may be compelled to judge ourselves for said failure. Adding to negative narratives that are already present. Trauma can also be a huge psychological issue with physiological effects that can prevent the more hardcore spiritual methods. Thats not to say it cannot be done. Just gotta be really grounded with expectations

@ExploringReality If you flip it, I bet you a Zen master would slap you with: 'There is no self to criticize, and no other to be criticized. Yet still words appear.' I had a think on it and to criticize you need a subject (the critic, the self), the object (what is being criticized) and a perspective. If there is no self there, no one can be selfish. So, to flip it back, if there is a self - the criticism is selfish! As always it is one of Leo's posts that isn't explicit and makes you dig for the answer... Or so I perceive !

Ah! Identifying an object does in fact, involve thought. We follow on from the 'Lamp' example: Raw perception (pre-thought): Our senses just register shapes, colours, textures, edges. The light enters our eyes and our visual cortex processes patterns. Not so much thinking here, just raw data processing Pattern recognition (fast, unconscious thought): Here our brain is comparing data against a whole host of stored templates in memory. 'Bright, shiny, button, globe...probably a lamp' This will happen so quickly we do not notice it. But! It is still a cognitive operation - a background thought. We can begin to become aware of this thought - through meditation. Conceptual identification (conscious thought): If we actually label the object 'That is a lamp', or, if we distinguish it from similar things 'Not a ceiling light' that is where the thought proper kicks in - language, concepts, memory being applied. Identifying is the bridge between perception and thought. The raw experience does not need thought, but as soon as you classify it or label it, thought is at play. You can try this with meditation by staring at an object until you absolutely have no idea what you are looking at any longer. It definitely seems you have caught the narrative overlay as a thought (or should we say, a thinking) identified 'I need a new lamp' Incidentally - I actually do need a new lamp WTF @Carl-Richard

There is awareness of 'light' Then a perception/interpretation/concept thought 'the light is on' In my experience - these 2 can be seperated. Wittled down to just 'awareness of light' You could apply this to the body part also

I like this! There is a pervasive dialogue that thoughts 'befall us' - oh! Woe is me, the thoughts come for me and befall me! And while I do understand neural pathways that are activated can reinforce these thoughts to make them feel 'default' - they are indeed just bad habits. The thoughts are repeated and habitual to the extent they are the least effortful way of existing. These thoughts are what I deem, in myself, reflex thoughts. Changing the patterns of thought requires energy, conscious energy. And deliberately placing awareness on them is the only way to begin the process of unravelling. Changing the reflexive thought pattern to another type, through repetition. Changing bad-habit thoughts is just the same as changing a bad habit in reality: keep putting energy into changing the behaviour 'make the bed when I am finished with sleep' until it becomes the new default. Once it is ingrained in the nervous system, it just happens with no effort. For a while, forcing ourselves to make the bed requires huge mindfulness and effort: until it becomes a reflex of the neural pathways. Repeat. Practice makes perfect. Once it is the new reflex, it just happens. The bed gets made. The body just does it. You are in the moment and present, and you trust the bed will get made, at the time it should be made, just as it should. You don't even remember making the bed, it is now part of the brains autopilot. Same with thoughts. External reality mirrors internal. Anyway... Just elaborating on what has been my process for anyone who stumbles with this. Practice. Meditate to become aware of the thoughts as first step. Put effort to change your thoughts and your brain will rewire to follow. If individuals have issue with this, and they have no actual physiological inhibitors (IE a real chemical issue in the brain they have a proper medical insight into, or physical difference) I implore you to meditate and become aware of the nature of your thoughts. They never come out of no where. We (so to speak hehe) do them.

I was keen to hear the counters to the above actually! Fizzling out

Are we considering subtext and how it comes into play with this definition? Context = environment that gives shape 'background that frames the foreground' Subtext = the hidden or implied meaning beneath the surface Maybe pulling subtext out in a defined way will refine where this is going. It seems to me to be present most of the time, but it is not always relevant. Then again, maybe this is going to muddy the water (not that it could get any worse, this thread is like walking through molasses)

Appreciate this!

Enjoy the verbal jousting, Leo's posts/blog (even when I do not agree.. ) And probably most of all, I like it as a testbed for ideas and contemplations. Certain users have unusual and uncommon ways of being and viewing things. It is a very good way to assess if I am steeped in some delusion or presenting a logical fallacy. I don't use it for serious spiritual work as I do that on my own. You tend to find users LEGIT COME FOR YOU with pitchforks when you are biased out the arsehole - and not just me - anyone will cop it. In addition - I like being emotionally triggered here - because it forces me to probe more inside for areas of self and attachment. ' Oh! A feeling coming up? There's some more self you little turd '

Interesting. I tend to think humans are always seeking the sublime. There is always something within humans reaching for it - spiritual seekers reach for the sublime. If it is not through spirituality, it is through drugs, love, thrills, altered states, children, sex - always trying to reach it, even if subconsciously. I think spiritual seekers are keenly aware of their appetite for the sublime in ways unconscious humans are not. I digress...