Natasha Tori Maru

@Leo Gura Haha well, now you have - the blood and sweat of my soul spent on the construction site exchanged for the booklist Cheers

@Leo Gura True - poked nice holes in it, we are left with Swisse cheese I think I was using the term knowing too loosely - in my head I defined it as a step over just understanding. Habitual synapse wiring? So not enough to know something, but training the nervous system to trust it. From the prefrontal cortex (intellectual knowing in the thinking brain) -> Limbic system (primal control room of sensation) through repetition

I perceive this as a 'knowing'. A realization and integration - a truth you know. When it is not some shit you tell yourself. Not a belief. No fake it till you make it. When you know, you just do. You don't even think. I swing like this at work 😈

@Leo Gura >.> <.< TAKE MY MONEY

A craving to be witnessed and acknowledged for your unique set of qualities? It's about wanting love underneath?

I am unsure how this relates to what I commented. I meant to state 'if you only do things for return, you don't get to reach life's potential' You should do things for others with no assumptions or intentions behind any outcome.

I had a think on this - do you think there is confusion because we can be speaking about consciousness as a noun OR verb. And context is being lost without defining consciousness as a noun vs consciousness as a verb, when we speak? Resulting in confusion.

Nothing to know here - not knowing it all

Solipsism is just some idea that cannot be proven or disproven. It doesn't matter to me personally at all. It shouldn't for you either Do not let it change your behavior - however: Operating out of personal integrity IS an existential matter. Lies (mistreatment of others to get something you need) are existential, not moral. If you lie, cheat, steal, treat others poorly (all forms of lies, all forms of un-TRUTH to serve some self agenda) - it is going to have consequences. It causes a split between your experience of reality and your being. A crack. You pollute your experience, that is pure, with actions that are not true to you. Anxiety forms, regret, attacks of the conscience when you do not expect. You ruin your experience. And integrity lowers the structural soundness of everything - cement with a crack is weakened. Less effective. It cannot hold up to pressure without collapse. So, you are weakened as a person. Less effective. Shatter under pressure. Like the cracked cement. This happens to your consciousness - it is not a moral issue. It is existential. Just because we do not see the consequences - does not mean they do not exist. I suppose this apology is a form of absolution... But in the end, I will just send, ALL THE E-HUGS to you <3

These were Granny Smith - I like tart applies >.< I am a bit prickly haha I prefer leaves, textures and flaws When rendering that is!

It does go further - and I think this is what Breakingthewall has realized and integrated: In my experience with the truth non-dualists get the no-self thing slightly wrong - or I should say - it goes further. There IS a unique part to each human - a human, distinct consciousness. This consciousness is fundamental. It is awareness in the pure sense. Pure existence. There is a Breakthewall consciousness, a Natasha consciousness etc. This is where I understand Breakthewall has seen the unique parts of each human that she has realized and integrated (again I could be wrong - could JUST be how I read it). This is completely separate to the self. But the self influences this unique, distinct consciousness we all have. Thoughts, perceptions, beliefs, ideas, personal history, memory - all come after this - and this is where we experience the ego self, generated for survival. But this acts as an overlay onto the pure consciousness that we each are at the base. Which is just being, experience and awareness. This 'self' stops you experiencing reality in a pure sense. As an example: you walk down the street, and you are worried about work. You worry about being late and your boss being angry. But notice that this worry is stopping you from seeing the beauty of the light; the flowers coming in full bloom (spring!), the crunchy sound of your feet on the brambles, the cool, fresh air in your lungs. That beautiful experience is now totally absent from your experience because your ego self was busy engaged in the future. It wasn't focusing on the present. So the ego distracts you from realising these experiences - which are the pure experiences of a human. A human being. Literally being. Where these 2 topics get minced together if you think thought is fundamental. And I get it - trying to force thoughts to stop is impossible. Which is repression and force. But when you integrate the realization the self is an illusion, you realise the thoughts are like a bad habit. Its easy to think the same thoughts. It's easy to repeat patterns. It takes no effort. What takes effort is trying to change your thoughts. Become aware of them. Train your focus to reality - not worry about the future or past. Just like a bad habit of eating junk food. You can train yourself to discipline thought though focus. Mediation. What you eventually find is that thoughts begin to slow. They can slow so much they can stop. And then - BOOM - you are pure awareness. You notice all the beauty of life - you stop and smell the roses. But this requires a lot of practice. Dedication. In addition to the above - the no self thing - well. Can you point to a self? If you are pure consciousness - not the body - but awareness - where is this self? Is a thought a thing? It is self-generated. SELF generated. It comes from the self. So if thoughts stop - where does the self go? Survival creates this self. It is needed for survival. But it is not fundamental - your unique consciousness IS. Again, serious meditation will take you there. Self-enquiry. Serious questioning. Questioning EVERYTHING. Hum a song, sing a song in your mind. Every note. Every word. The bridge - the chorus. Recall it in full. When you do this - can you think at the same time? Try to think and recall this song in your minds ear. You cannot. All the notes occupy your mind. If thought is fundamental - when you sung that song in your mind - and you stopped thoughts... did you (the self) just stop? Or is it something you create - just like the song? There is the illusion and the paradox. You certainly didn't stop! Or suddenly cease to exist. But you could still sense - you were still aware. But the self (the thinking, ego self) was temporarily gone. The illusion revealed. Once contemplation and integration happen - you reach knowing. Truth. Once you are in a state of knowing - you simply do. Because you know. Know the nature of thyself.

@Mellowmarsh I think the core of @Breakingthewall's premise is that repression or trying to shut down thoughts to stop emotions doesn't work. This is inhuman. And using force like this can be viewed as such. However, using force to do this doesn't work. Where the big issue comes is where no-self comes in - if not fully understood and integrated the natural conclusion is that no-self is anti human. This results from believing no self means repressing emotion and thought. But this is not what no-self is. No denial of feeling or emotion is part of it. So the premise is correct. It's just that the 'self' being an illusion leads to false assumptions when not integrated. I think this highlights how dangerous some knowledge can be when not integrated. That is my understanding anyway - I could be wrong.

Honestly, I have spent a lot of time meditating in my life. And my methods were dogshit >.< Real trash. In the last year I changed my practice up. I had to change what I was doing to make real progress and see real results. I don't mean to imply any time is wasted, only that sometimes 'time' isn't a good measure of investment. I did learn a lot through failing at meditation and contemplation - so for me it wasn't a waste. You are very intelligent - it shows. If you felt any emotion from my posts - it is all frustration that comes from me, as a result of a failure to properly guide and communicate in text. It is not meant to be directional. And I apologize if it was received as so. I know I am a bit fierce through text. I know that we all have the power within us to break out of internal patterns that hold us back. All emotion and feeling is always valid. It takes a lot of work to deconstruct where it comes from. It, to me, is some of the hardest spiritual work you can do. Even though there was a lot of disagreement here - I did really enjoy the exchange!! <3

💀 I felt you explained exactly why...

How can you be sure of what will be returned? You might forgo assisting another because you do not perceive a return in value - but this actually castrates you from the full potential of experience. Something may be returned you could NEVER expect - and end up valuing more than you realise. The best parts of my experience have resulted in an unexpected return on investment 😁

Very interesting - the topic of language and how it influences context. In terms of transmission information you guys might like this part of a remote viewing (nonverbal information transmission) interview (top CIA remote viewer). Go straight to 39:46 - he speaks about how communication happens without language + it's interpretation: https://youtu.be/JpLThEF2dTM?si=dGnP1Se42mFD3788 Long and short of it is - interpretation and context is an issue. It both sabotages the result and a second person is needed to remove the potential context the remote viewer brings to the process.

@Schizophonia is on the mark, the mirror effect is what I see here also. Enjoy their perspective on these threads as it always comes into play 'mirror effect'

Half of the problem is that there is a massive attachment to thoughts and ideas happening. So when holes are pointed in the basic metaphysical assumptions behind the premise, there is an emotional reaction. This reaction is in your control, but you seem to think others 'cause' you to react. Half your premise is based on foregoing responsibility for you own internal state - this is the inhuman part no? But the commonality is the individual (the self) - some users here would, for example, not get emotional like you. What is occuring there? If the reaction cannot be helped, how can it be different between individuals? The premise is that thoughts are at the base of the human, and that history and conditioning cannot be changed. Or not without a lot of 'FORCE' - the inhuman part again. This is a false assumption - thoughts are not fundamental. I could be wrong. But it seems to me this is at the base of it. There is also no differentiation between perception and awareness (madness... Really strange and important definition). And if there is now, there wasn't when the premise was created (this was discussed a few pages ago). So just from the above - that is 2 assumptions of which the premise is based on. 2 faults already. So none is going to attack the premise as it is a faulty conclusion based on unsteady assumptions - this shows a lack of serious contemplation and care given to fundamentals. And THIS is what the mods have been doing - attempting to get you to rethink these assumptions. Because the faulty conclusion (premise of the thread) is based all on this. This is why @UnbornTao's advice is to return to basics. And it's not cruel to point this out - if you look at all the contemplation threads here many other users are attempting to pull hard topics apart, being shown it is incorrect, throwing it away, and re-evaluating. The problem the mods are pointing out is that Breakingthewall staunchly refuses to be guided into contemplation or to give up their perspective/worldview. They are clinging desperately to these assumptions and will not even try a simple thought experiment (again if you read the thread you will see this happening, an attempt to guide, then frustration at the stubbornness). Others here have been trying to understand but we cannot as these assumptions (thought is fundamental, awareness/perception is the same, humans are have a permanent psychology/ego/self) stop us and we go 'wait a minute! This is an error' Who cares if you have spent hours thinking about this - I spend hours sometimes contemplating only to post, have someone show me an error and then throw it all away! Breakingthewall thinks you cannot control your reactions - so the self therefore is real. Immutable. They may be correct about some other things, but this is not correct. And it causes people to be victims. Like they have no choice but to react and attach to everything - causing unnecessary suffering. I do not like this conclusion because I feel it can do some insidious damage to others who take this on. And yes we (the mods) are repeatedly called narcissists because we have realised this and seen the effects: a reduction in suffering. Greater emotional control, more compassion, love, surrender. But we are inhuman because this is seen by Breakingthewall as repression. It is not at all. You feel MORE. The complex of attachment isn't in the way, so all is felt more keenly. Action can be taken in the moment without hesitation. And it is truer than when the self injects it's personal needs and feelings into the process. You need to really dive into the feelings and self and contemplate to realise this - the opposite of repression. Which, again, is why @UnbornTao is pushing to contemplate the self. I could be wrong but that is the long and short of my understanding. Read the thread - Breakingthewall refuses to give up their frame or assumptions so they cannot counter argue as a result. Just repeat the same thing. This isn't isolated to this thread either - it is a running theme for them. Also really just admit it - you don't like the self being an illusion because it is echoing Ralston. And you hate Ralston. This is where it all comes from 😏

Mining, oil riggers, construction workers Most manual labour jobs - men are the backbone there. I can see Emeralds point (I think both have equal value), but since I work in construction, I see the infrastructure and raw power that men physically have and what it has built. And sustains.

I will add - keep going in your practice. A side effect of serious spiritual practice - it has been great in my career. I manage commercial construction projects and am well known for never losing my cool and handling hard shit with compassion. Hard deadlines, high expectations, insane problems, incompetence. I've never had a day where I hit any sort of breaking point or got overly emotional. I feel stress, but I am clear and focus on the task. It helps me maintain integrity, honesty and authenticity. No self mode Big contrast to the volume of grumpy arse turd CMs I meet...

In my own experience - I am by no means so far into spirituality as many others - I cannot stop a reaction in the body (like what you describe) but I can lessen it. I can lessen my minds inflation of the feeling. The mind really acts to enhance suffering. The feeling still arises naturally (as it will), but I was heaping shit on top of it with my mind. The feeling is NOTHING without the thoughts that you generate on top of it. It is the attachment to it that I lost - or reduced. I feel irritation rising in me - the full feeling of it - but no impulse to act. It registers as an experience - even if really overwhelming. I don't judge it as good or bad or anything - it is a sensation that has arisen because of my body reacting in survival to circumstances. It will always pass. I stop attaching any meaning to the feeling. The mind is the part that adds unnecessary fuel to the fire 'That was so unfair' 'I want justice' 'They did me wrong'. These little narratives are self/ego thoughts. This component you have the ability to control and lesson with practice. Once you realize you are adding this narrative. Having the thoughts. You realize you have the power to change or stop them. The body still has an experience, but you are now in a state to handle it without all the attachment to the thoughts inflating it all. You remain clear minded even when flooded with adrenalin. A lot of serious meditation, contemplation and practice can train the mind to recognize your thoughts aren't all you are - your ideas are just ideas, no need for all the attachment to them. Good for arguing too - less ego involved when someone comes along and destroys your idea. But you seem to be well past this realization on your journey! I have huge issues with my own siblings - who I work with - and I was facing this sort of triggering anger every day for a year. It was only through loosening up the meaning and story I was telling myself that it abated (and now it registers as a mild irritation, like a phone app freezing, whereas before it rendered me unable to maintain composure). Again, others may have better advice. But for myself it was realizing I was not my thoughts. *I* was thinking them. They weren't befalling me. I was thinking those narratives 'Why can't she just recognize I am trying to help, instead of lash out?' and the narratives were fuelling the emotional charge. Making it all worse. I was all about ME - look what she did to ME. The attachment to the narrative and thought was my undoing. Meditation made me super aware of the thoughts. I realized it was the illusory self. And this helped me stop doing it. Now most of the time it is an experience felt - not good or bad. Just a very charged up feeling. I think the Neo Advaita stuff can be useful to realize the paradox that the self is an illusion. To see it for what it is - a construct for survival. But it still remains as long as we survive. I have no hope of eliminating it - not possible. The self is the greatest attachment we have - and surrendering it leads to union - non-duality - love. But you just can't operate from that state - no matter how awesome the blissful moments can be

This sounds like the test from hell... Family has a way of really provoking ego. And it can make you regress to previous infantile dynamics you thought you broke free of. Honestly - how you react, and your ability to manage your emotions in this situation, is an indicator for growth. If you are presented with the same situation again and again but find yourself reacting differently - you have integrated something along the path. Having said all that - this may not be what you want to hear: no one can MAKE you feel anything. No one can make you angry. You generate that internally by reacting to their charged state. You can only control yourself in this situation. You let yourself lose your temper. You are strong enough to divert that huge emotional charge into holding on and controlling anger. Repressing doesn't work - focus all energy on what you wanted to achieve - self-control to resolve the conflict. It may seem like the external causes you to lash out - but it is how you are reacting in the moment. Reacting instead of responding. And I know - I have been the damn queen of instant, intense charged emotion. I don't react at all like I once did. 100% focus on the solution. Resolving the shit. Sometimes reacting differently yourself changes how others respond - although your brother sounds like he has a lot of charged up energy that he throws at you when conflicts arise. It can be really difficult to stand in the face of that and respond, not react. And men have that snap anger that is so intense it can feel like an unstoppable force that needs to explicate. Maybe you could try to reframe this. Instead of looking at it as a setback - see it as a marker that you may have more work to do in your spiritual work. This is a marker and a test. Do you notice anything different to previous conflict with siblings? Is it just as bad? You might cool down quicker now and refocus on fixing the issue - that would be an indicator you have made progress. Overall, don't be too hard on yourself and your practice right now - this is a shitty time that will pass. Everything changes - except change. You will get back on the path, you may just need to accept a pause. If I were in your position, I would be getting out into nature with books as much as possible. Hikes. Air.

The background that shapes the foreground Where foreground is what we are consciously attending to. And background are the conditions that make the foreground possible to appear as it does. Culture, memory, assumptions, language, prior context, bodily state, time/space. I think the background is always going to be some sort of network of relationships that inject meaning into the foreground. And without the background, the foreground would be unrecognized noise. Content and field. This is holographic, no? Context has context. Foreground is just 'noticed background' - background is just 'unnoticed foreground'

My grocery delivery was delayed - an ode to the apples that were late to be experienced

@UnbornTao 'Buildingthewall' The worldview is built with cracks in the foundation, resulting in building movement above & wall joins cracking, causing leaks in the bathroom. There is a returning again and again to fix, patch, paint and plaster and reinstall waterproof membrane. Only to have the building shift from below once again, and crack the walls of the bathroom. The leak presents itself again and again - Ad infinitum The misdiagnosis. My understanding