Jayson G

I shit you not, I listened to his "valuable things require development over time" at least 60 times, and just the last time I watched it, some of the biggest realizations of life came out of that.

Thats littt af .. dont forget us mortals who arent so deep in spirituality and could use more practical stuff, but of course you do you man

@Yimpa lol dude you quoted ChatGPT in your signature ... thats funny af and damn who would have thought, its good you approached her then .. I think the lesson definitely is that its always good to approach a girl no matter what situation shes in

ahh good point

@Leo Gura isnt it a time waste to approach girls with a boyfriend or husband? or do you just do it for the reference experience, or to train your mind to approach everyone? Tyler also has a strategy that has worked wonders for me, to approach everyone, guy or girl, old or young, anyone, to just train to be highly social .. do you see value in that as a top strategy

@Leo Gura before we even get to such a sentencing for trump, we have to first acknowledge the extent of what he's done. I know a lot of people, smart friends of mine tbh, they work in good careers, good companies, some millionaires, good familys, healthy minded, they support trump, think he did nothing wrong, I dont get it ... feels like theres a massive denial in america

I have a personal development community I'm growing, sort of like Leo's actualized community. I recently read The Game - Neil Strauss, and my mind was blown wide open. Now Owen's Tyler Durden Fight Club thing makes sense. I then started thinking about how all the pickup stuff shut down - mystery mostly, neil strauss gone, David DeAngelo gone, even people who don't admit that they were pretty good at game (Tim F., Tony Robbins, etc.) deny game to avoid a pickup community. But I can see the value in a pickup community, but combined with many other fields to form a holistic community. But it would be cool to target the pickup related people from a fight club angle. But I'm worried about attracting cult psychology (fight club) into the community that might toxify it, or incels or red pill or just rapey or disrespectful people towards women. I wanted to create sort of conscious pickup, as healthy as possible, but a sort of revival of The Game community that seems to be largely dead since RSD tanked. Are the dangers avoidable? What are some ways to prevent this danger? @Leo Gura you made it work without toxifying the community, and Im not nearly as conscious as you but Im able to spot and cut out BS posts and people from the community who toxify it. I dont want also a takedown of a holistic community just because there's a pickup angle that a group of people might want to destroy, like they did to RSD. Looking for some light to be shown on this. I'm excited to sort of revive game, based on the book The Game, but done in a conscious grown up way, but also Im worried about getting a bunch of toxic minded men in the community. Is it worth it? I also really wanna do this fight club imagery stuff (not in a cult way, but sort of an underground community way, but then again is that cultish? I don't know much about cults, but I know I've avoided cults of all kinds my life being open-minded with various perspectives.

@Leo Gura I noticed that lol .. I always wondered why you started a forum? Don't you enjoy your solitude more? and also it's a lot of work, and there's a lot of human bullshit to deal with whereas with your videos you can just focus on intelligence and philosophy? No hate, I get a lot of value from the forum, but I have wondered this for a while

From this entire thread, I've realized some things: 1) It's probably better for a guy to prioritize a) becoming a high value attractive man than being a good PUA (even if that involves PUA), I think that's better for the world, healthier and higher potential for a man, and better for women. 2) It's also clear from this thread that men and women have conflicting agendas, and one's agenda can step on another's agenda, but maybe there is no reality without such a war. In the end both men and women need each other to thrive to their highest potential, whatever that means for someone. This is tricky stuff I see. I can totally understand how women don't like the PUA agenda. And if I were to be real, and I had a daughter, I don't know how I feel about her being gamed by a guy lol .. I do think as a society also we need to get a lot of these cravings out of the way, I can see it perverting society in various ways.

Yeah pickup isn't for everyone, and I do admit it can feel dirty and messy sometimes, but so does all my other pursuits in life: overcoming fears, writing mastery, building a business, etc.

It's not that doing pickup is attractive, but the person you become after doing it for a few years (if you do it right) is attractive, which is why pickup works. Like the process of making music can be ugly or messy, but the product of making music for a few years is some really good banger songs.

@Leo Gura gotchya, these are great insights.

@Leo Gura If I take Eben Pagan for example, I would say he's a mature conscious leader, though somewhat corrupted with his marketing mindset. But overall he had a net positive on the business world. He's into spirituality but not super deep into spiritual work. So from his example, I plan to develop myself into a mature conscious leader, even with spiritual work, but I don't know about going super deep with spiritual work. But as long as I'm proactively doing personal development work, purifying my psyche, etc. this path seems like it is doable?

@Emerald

@Leo Gura Yeah that makes sense, people will do just about anything to get their way when they are desperate, and a host of other problems. But then again I think, how can I create a holistic personal development community and not talking include an aspect of dating, and getting that part of their life handled. Right now Im leaning more towards the angle of not including any pickup content, but that might change in the future. But do you have any important lessons for ensuring the least toxicity in a community in general? I would assume: a) removing toxic and low quality posts, b) removing toxic people from the community, c) basic general rules like no promotion, no hate speech, no racism, no sexism, etc. d) good moderators, and I can learn to properly manage moderators .. anything important I'm missing? The community is part of a larger online university, with different masters teaching, so that in itself should lower toxicity, with the consciousness of these masters trickling into the community discussions.

@Emerald Honestly I never did a strong investigation into shame, this is pretty new to me, but I'll definitely look into it. Also I never got to thank you, you helped me like 5 years ago on a call, took your advice and that contributed to getting me out of a dark emotional pit. Thanks for that a lot.

I went to a DJ Khaled concert in Miami once. We waited 2 hours because he was late. He finally came on stage, yelled "We The Best" and left. No concert. I was so confused fr

@Emerald there's definitely that aspect of feelings of shame of not being ideal, but I'll give a perspective of sort of normal drives that drives much of the community: - a desire to date a ton of girls, just because of high sex drive and stuff .. being able to date anyone you want, talk to any girl you want at any time, that if we land in a new city and see a girl at the airport we approach effortlessly and strike up a conversation. - wanting to better ourselves as a man, less out of shame, but more out of a positive desire to reach our highest potential - wanting solid social confidence etc. Now these are some of the main drives of PUAs. 90% of PUAs have such drives as the main drives, and these drives are not problematic as you see. But of that 90% of PUAs, 80% of PUAs will do some nasty things to satisfy those drives like heavy manipulation, canned routines, etc. But there is that 10% of PUAs who have healthy drives, and want to satisfy it in the healthiest way possible. And yes there's going to be some manipulation. But what I mean by that is that even flirting is a form of manipulation. But everyone does that, and without that there's no great relationship at all. So a small degree of manipulation is needed. But by talking about these important drives, I know I'm going to attract a lot of that crowd who has the healthy drives, but will do nasty things to get there. That's the worry. I get your point of shame, and there definitely is elements of that, but there's an overwhelming factor of other drives. If it was primarily shame, people wouldnt undertake a massive journey that is learning pickup. And yes there is also an aspect in communities of "needing to live up to masculine ideals", but I wouldnt undervalue the importance of masculine ideals. It helps to have some form of compass. Otherwise guys get stuck in their needy behaviors, fearful, unsocial, etc. behaviors.

@Leo Gura you can also do dataset philosophy, like Jim Collins. He would study leaders, tons of them, hundreds or thousands, characterize what he wanted to study in an excel sheet, you can philosophize with AI to determine the columns (their belief systems, how old are they, what profession are they, etc.), create high quality datasets of maybe hundreds or thousands of rows of leaders (in an attempt to study their psychology in your own way), feed it as a document to AI, and ask it to study the dataset, draw unique insights based on the dataset itself, to find specific patterns you're looking for, etc. you can also create custom chatbots with ChatGPT4, feed all the documents beforehand so that any conversation is based on that custom dataset (like a video you're working on), and that would eliminate the problem of the docs eating the context window also. Custom chatbots you can create your own, a whole team of them for whatever you're working on, on the openai website itself.

@Leo Gura over time, feel free to share more of these papers, its insightful to know on a meta level how to communicate with AI to arrive at high quality philosophy

such a good point!! I had my doubts, but given this blog post and your 60-page paper Im going to use these insights to adapt my philosophy workflow. This is going to be a major change in workflow for people who do this as a career. Really exciting stuff. really appreciate these responses.

oh okay, there's orders of magnitude difference between 3.5 and 4. 3.5 is wrong often, doesn't use the internet, no other external tools, much lower in intelligence, lacks depth of insight. 4 is phenomenal. Def will check out claude 3 opus

@Leo Gura you mention this in your blog post: "I have now incorporated AI into how I do philosophy. In fact, I don’t see how good philosophy could be done any other way. From now on all my work, all my videos, will be created in collaboration with AI in order to provide the most factual, nuanced, well-researched, and robust perspectives. I ask the AI to poke holes in my theories and supply me with examples and counter-examples." In terms of a workflow for arriving at great philosophy, would you say the approach of going deep with these AI models can surpass reading books for insights and contemplation, or even doing solo philosophy with the aid of nothing? (just curious in terms of just sheer quantity of quality insights, not internalization of insights necessarily)

That's a good point to be honest. I'm sure they both have their pros and cons. Maybe having multiple tools would be great over time. I definitely am curious about Claude 3 opus. I never even heard of it till today.

@Leo Gura Can you tell me how Claude 3 compares to ChatGPT4? I've been using ChatGPT4 ever since, and I absolutely love it. I spend hours a day just going deep with it, in some of the same ways you do with philosophy, and it's miraculous what it's capable of. Would you know some general comparisons in your philosophical investigation between the 2? Also you might want to check this out, the guy that Jordan Peterson interviews revers to these LLMs as "continents" of unexplored knowledge, wisdom, and insights, and you can go really deep with it to sort of unearth and bring back insights to share with the world. I found his insights pretty fascinating.