Karmadhi

@Leo Gura Have you read about how Israel killed its own people during October 7th and lied a lot about what Hamas did, making them look worse. Or you still believe everything Israel claimed that Hamas did? I keep hearing "they burned babies" for example by pro Israelis but only 1 baby was killed on the whole attack and the baby was not burned. Same with "beheading people", which I found no proof of. The only thing Pro Israelis claim which I found proof of is rape.

Who are qassam brigate?

They did it with Nasrallah who was the leader of Hezbollah by bombing 6 residential buildings. At first Israel claimed 300 killed. So for them it was ok to kill 300 people to get the leader of Hezbollah. Considering it is the very top guy, I am unsure whether it is a proportional attack. I would say no, but I doubt USA would not be willing to sacrifice 300 people to get Bin Laden for example. So it is tricky. But this guy was NOT a military guy for Hezbollah but a political guy. Member of Parliament basically. That is what I read. And they tried to take him out. I know they did similar assassinations of guys, including the top Hamas guy in Iran and little to no collateral damage. The fact that they did not do it here seems to me that they simply did not want to bother, which is a red flag. But that is from what I read so far. I know a girl whose house was destroyed in the South of Lebanon from Israeli strikes and she said there were no Hezbollah members operating there. It was destroyed and had no military importance. Luckily nobody died because they had left beforehand but it is still messed up. It makes me think they are targeting civilian buildings even if no Hezbollah base there. Which is a war crime.

Look at @Nivsch He is Israeli yet open enough to look at the sources Leo sent. That is the spirit of the work of this forum, to be open minded. Try to also do the same. I know it is hard as an Israeli but this work is not easy nor for the common folk.

This is off topic but do you see the war in Ukraine being settled anytime soon? Sorry to ask here but I notice you are very active here compared to the Ukranian war threads.

I agree with the first part but regarding the second part. Do you consider the current West Bank government to be a genocidal government? From what I have seen they are miles better than Hamas and even cooperate with Israel forces often.

Hezbollah political official survives Israeli assassination attempt: Report A senior Hezbollah political official survived an assassination attempt on Thursday night, three anonymous security sources have told the Reuters news agency, as the Israeli military carried out its largest attack yet on central Beirut. Wafiq Safa, the chief of Hezbollah’s liaison and coordination unit, which works with Lebanese security agencies, was reportedly the target as Israeli fighter jets bombed a densely-packed neighbourhood in the heart of Beirut, killing at least 22 people and injuring 117 others. The Israeli military did not issue an evacuation order before carrying out the strike, which was only the third to hit central Beirut since the start of its bombing campaign in late September. I am not military nor legal expert but isnt it a war crime to basically try to "assassinate" someone by bombing an entire bloc of apartments without any notice killing and injuring 170 people. All to get 1 guy. Who is not even a military guy but a political guy. Like, is this considered fair in war? I remember Israel assassinated some Hezbollah guys in Beirut many months ago and there were barely any causalities and little to no damage. Precise strikes. What happened to those?

I dont care what Israelis say. Ethnic cleansing is wrong. I say it is wrong based on international law and my internal moral compass. That is independent of what Israelis care to admit. Maybe they rationalize it as something not wrong since they did the same beforehand. Or they are so biased that when they do it is fine but when it is done to them it is not. That statement was based on my own judgement.

Piers Morgan is a prime example

Perhaps, but he comes from a solid Green place. He does not want Israel destroyed nor condone the Hamas attacks. That is why I used his name. He is totally different from the anti Israel blue crowd in the West that genuinely wants Israel gone.

Sorry to hear that. Indeed the kicking out of the Jews from the Middle East and North Africa as retaliation for the Nakba was indeed wrong. Although I cannot blame Palestinians for that, it was the governments of the host countries which did it. Still messed up.

Is he from Ben Gvir party or another? Who would you say is worse? I see Ben Gvir gets more hate, is he more cruel than Smotrich or they are same? I read that Ben Gvir was involved in a terrorist attack against Palestinians in a mosque years ago. Meanwhile I read Smotrich made a remark that it would be moral and ok to starve 2 million Gazans to get the hostages back which the whole world condemned including the EU and UK https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cave_of_the_Patriarchs_massacre

I do not know documentaries but you can find tons of interviews where Green people talk about it. Owen Jones is a prime example. Francesca Fiorentini is another. Both have talked about it on Piers Morgan show and they have their own channels. Cenk Ugyur is another example. None of them say that Hamas attack was fine nor they want Israel gone nor they want to kill Jews. They may have somewhat a Pro Palestine bias (I do too to be honest) but I never saw them degrade into genocidal talk about Israel or Jews. They condemned Hamas, calls them terrorists but also has a very pro Palestine viewpoint and wants good for them.

Those are radical Greens. Most sensible greens want two states and justice for Israeli crimes. None of my green friends want Israel to be destroyed nor to kill Jews. They basically want the government and IDF to be heavily trailed for war crimes and to restore Palestine to the 1968 borders (kick out all the settlers). This is the pure Green pov. Unfortunately you have radical Arabs going on those protests and they indeed can chant hateful language towards Israel or Jews as you have said. Thing is those people are not Green, they are Blue. Blue people living in West definitely want what you say

We have the war in Ukraine being fought at the same time and we did not see the horrible images that came from Gaza. A war much more condemned. That is what triggered greens so much. I know you have said the conflicts are different but when you have 2 wars and in 1 you just see destroyed buildings and in the other you see thousands of dead kids, it is hard not to label it as anything that a war against childreen. Greens want the war in Gaza to have the same low children and civilian death toll in proportion to soldiers that the war in Ukraine has. Nothing more. They think Russia (which Green already demonizes) cares more about civilians than Israel. Which leads to them calling it as a genocide. Israelis may not be as brutal as the Nazis but there is a lot of similarities in the way they think and view stuff. Especially with hardcores like Ben Gvir. Nobody sane would call Herzog a nazi for example. And about Destiny reacting against Green going too far (I do not think they are going too far), he doubles down on the Green views that gender is fluid and stuff like this. I have not seen him react against the excesses of Green when it comes to sexuality. He only does it here.

Fair. You think Destiny is just being racist or islaphobocic with his pro Israeli bias or just has fallen victim to the complex Israeli propaganda? I know on a debate he had with Cenk Ugyur, Cenk said Destiny s arguments had implied racist attitudes towards Palestinians.

Do you plan to discuss it with him if you do a podcast together?

People have issues with how the EU is run, but not about it existing and being part of it. EU is necessary considering the growth of countries like China, India. Europe needs to be united, it is too weak alone.

To be honest as long as they get unconditional support from USA/Germany/UK then they will surivive. Russia is also doing fine. To be frank Russia at the moment has probably a better interntional standing than Israel considering the rest of the world outside the West is either neutral to Russia or positive.

They were allowed to get away with it because the West was still pretty Holocaust guilt tripped and overall had a orange/blue level of devleopment. As green becomes more and more prominent, more important in politics, so will the support for Israel expansion devilry. Biden generation of "boomer era Zionists" will be replaced with more sympathetic people to Palestine. In Europe already many parties are opposed to Israel hardcore. Even in USA many democrats are against Israel, it is just they put the biggest shameless Zionists as leaders for some reason. Half the democrats boycotted Netanyahu speech in Congress. https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/12/21/us-support-israel-palestine-poll/ https://ctmirror.org/2024/05/10/america-israel-support-palestinian-protests/ https://www.brookings.edu/articles/the-generation-gap-in-opinions-toward-israel/

So ethnically cleansed basically. I think they would flee to Jordan and other countries. But do you honestly see it happening? I know even pro Israel countries are dead locked on Israel not annexing any more land. Not to mention the horrible PR they have these days which will only grow, especially with young voters who soon will become future rulers. As the West grows into Green, Israel devilry cannot surivive. The occupation they been doing for decades will no longer be sustainable.

I think Europe was still very antisemetic at the time and did not want Jews to have their own state within their area. Israel was basically a dumping spot to put them. Like UK wanted to dump their refugees in Rwanda. Same logic. Never forget many European countries participated in the Holocaust. Germany, Austria, Czechia, Slovakia, Romania, France, Ukraine, Italy, Croatia, Netherlands. All of them are complicit as hell. Which is why they are also the most hardcore Israel supporters.

Perhaps they may flee to other countries? I know Jordan has millions of Palestinians. When you say "destroy Palestianians" you mean like the national identity and sense of "Palestine" or physically kill them all? They would have to kill like 7 millions.

And then people wonder why Jews are hated in that region... They brought it on themselves.

I think it is far more likely that Zelensky will be overthrown by the Ukranian military or oligarchs and a more pro peace guy will replace him. Keep in mind that Ukraine is the one who has been destroyed, Russia is intact. Therefore, the limit of Ukranians is reaching its peak. Not to mention they running out of menpower.