Karmadhi

They fall for high value guys which are not most people. They also cut you off for all sorts of stuff. The only guys I know that have options with girls are either very good looking guys (genetic lotary) or guys that went through legit HELL to build their game (like Leo did). To need to either win genetic lottary or go through hell to have options with girls is fucked up. I do not see girls going through hell if they are not top 10% of looks, they still have more options than most guys. And not only shit options but the decent guys in their social circle or work which they love to friendzone all the time.

Very interesting. Im curious, these guys that girls tolerate a lot are they players with great game or not? If you are a PUA player or natural game person then I agree with you but most guys are not. Being a decent guy that treats girls well does not mean you need to have great game. Many (but not all) of the experiences I have heard of girls being hurt by guys was because the guys tended to be playerish kinda guys with lots of options with other girls. This does not mean he is a decent guy. To me decent guy is based on being responsible, reliable, interesting (so not boring), secure in himself, wise, caring and having his life together. Many of these guys are not girl magnet yet would make the best boyfriends. So it is not hard for a girl to get a decent guy that will treat her well. Biggest issue I guess is that these guys sometimes are scared to approach but it can be solved by dating them from work/social circle etc.

I agree with you that they are frustrated. I have spoken with many many about this and they are not happy at all. However, I have noticed that the main reason it happens is because they are looking for the perfect guy and have unrealistic expectations. Also if a guy does 1-2 mistakes somewhere they immediately cut him off and are overall a lot harsher. If a guy was as harsh and picky as most girls he would never get laid unless he was a proper PUA (which are like 5% of the population of men max). So they are creating their own problem. It is as if I will only work if I get top 10% salary or only eat restourant level foods. It is a silly and childish logic, real life you need to be make compromises and settle.

How can you do that? Aside from good in bed and making jokes/playful any other way? Does being ambitious and passionate about life count as emotional stimulation? Does being able to talk about different topics and interesting to talk to count? Does being confident in yourself count? Does positive vibe count?

I am talking about purely relationship stuff. Not sex. Girls I know they have guys behind them and I met some of them, they are very stable guys and quite developed people. You do not need to be hot top 20% to have a decent guy want to be with you and treat you well. That is what i have seen with my own eyes. If you associate decent guy with a player with good game then I agree. Personally i associate decent guy with intelligence, stability, development and being not boring to talk with. However it is not that hard for a girl to find a smart, caring, stable guy that also has some confidence and humour (just not on player level). I honestly do not know why you have this idea that unless a girl is 8+ then guys will just pump and dump her and not treat her well. Even a 6 will get guys that will be interested in her for something more serious and treat her well. Because I have seen it a lot with couples I know in real life and just talking to people. Maybe in USA or Vegas is different idk, I am not discrediting your personal experiences but mine are quite different.

Thing is that you do not need to be in the top 10% to actually have decent dating options as a girl. Even a relatively cute girl will have more options than most guys so by default they have it easier. It is only the legit ugly girls that have it worse, I would say 80% of girls have it easier than 80% of guys. Or in other words only 20% of girls actually struggle compared to like 80% of guys. I have plenty of female friends from all sorts of attractiveness ranges and honestly most of them get attention from pretty decent guys. Yes, they may not be a super mega player or millionare celebrity but they are usually kind, caring well put together smart guys that have shit going on their lives. Keep in mind most dating happens via online dating or social stuff and there a cute girl will do more than well enough. A girl does not need to get approached on a club or street to have dating options.

How are your social skills? Many people here might dissagree with this but if you do not have at least decent social skills and social intelligence then I think you have more important things to worry about than pickup. To develop social skills pickup is not the best way because it is very artificial and mechanical. For that I would reccomend meetup events and social groups, best way to grow your social skills really fast. Once you become likable and ease to talk with, you can go to pickup. Doing pickup with bad social skills to me is pointless and will make the journey hell. If you have already decent social skills then just focus on more approaches.

Smile A LOT, be positive AF. Do not say "I like you", it is a bit strange. Maybe just give a compliment like "I found you cute and wanted to say hi". Something more simple. Dress well, take care of your looks. Try to prioritze girls that are not in a rush or are just sitting somewhere (usually more responsive). Have positive energy and vibe that is KEY. Also innocence. You can deal with the sexual intent after, first try to get good conversations going without creeping people out.

Your first date should not be anything fancy, a drink or coffee is perfect. Therefore even if you pay for her the added cost will be low. Personally I think it is good to pay just not to ruin the mood and make things uncomfortable. Paying for a 4 dollar coffee does not make you a "provider" or anything like that as these Red Pill idiots make it seem. If you do fancy dinners then it is a bit more different, I would avoid that. If you cannot afford 5 dollars extra for a date, then you have bigger issues in your life than lack of women.

Most couples I have seen actually do this but not in an organized calculated way. Basically social circle from what I see in online videos, is to organize parties and stuff in order to get laid, but that is not how most guys date. Usually they know a lot of people by just being social and going to things and in time from that they meet other people and pursue those they like. For example you go to your friend birthday party, meet people and then you pursue one you like. Or you go ice skating with some friends and someone invites a friend and you get to know them. Then you add them in social media and start pursuing them by texting them. After a bit of texting you ask them to meet you 1 on 1. Usually the volume will be a lot lower but each lead is a lot stronger because you already have a lot of value by just being friend with their friend (from safety pov). Also your friends can DHV you if needed. Just to note this is not necessarily a strategy people do to get laid, they just live their life normally and they naturally meet people this way and date ones they like. I notice the return ratio is way higher than pickup (maybe you get 1 date per 3/4 girls you pursue). That is how I got like 1/3 of all dates in my life haha. Are you familiar with this? Not necessary you personally but people you may know. To me this is true social circle not organizing parties to get laid and stuff (to me it seems like another form of pickup). The biggest drawback I found is that you need to already have some skill for this to work. As a total noob it will not work because you have less volume. However if you have some ok skill then you can capitalize on that volume since it is a lot more prominent.

Totally agree but it is a function of spamm approaching in general, not just daygame spam approaching. Although during day it is more intense, I agree with you. However, this is a numbers game so we need to play it. Also you need volume to get experience. If you want to be honest about it, you can say: If I find a cute girl in public when I am going somewhere and I am in the right mood I go talk to her politely and see where it goes (you are being honest). I doubt girls will see you as a creep if you say this with positive energy and a warm friendly smile.

Most couples are not found on clubs either. I would say more couples are created from daygame than nightgame. It is just that it is not "daygame", just people randomly somehow meeting. It is quite romantic and movies love to show it. I know people that got girlfriends from train stations that do not even know what game is, they just somehow ended up talking. So in terms of actual couples formed I would say it is around same (meeting during day or night). Most couples are created via social circle and then online dating and then work/university/common activities. Pickup at clubs is not a traditional mean either. So your logic, which honestly I find a big limiting belief applies for clubs either. At least where I live it is like this, maybe your country is different. But if you want to get traditional, that is how couples used to meet in the past. Minus the spam approach part haha. Let me frame it in a positive way for you: You are a great guy, with high integrity that wants to give love and you are talking to someone you find nice to see if there is any chemistry and if they would be interested to get to know you better and maybe something can come from it. If not, no worries. All she would have gotten from you is positive stuff. If you do daygame to create harems and sleep with dozens of girls then yeah, it comes off as very scummy. That orange BS to dating is repulsive. Try green values embodiment and you will not feel bad about approaching during the day. It feels to me more romantic and pure and innocent and cute so the reason why you do it is very very important. Try to approach almost like a naive kid discovering the world full of positivity and love to give (while being wise, funny and confident ofc) and you will see it will not feel scummy. If you think about it, most guys that do this stuff are pretty scummy with low integrity (at least the good ones), so if you have a heart of gold and a lot of love/wisdom to give to the girl then you will feel pretty good about approaching them. If you come up with positivity and good energy they will not be rude or annoyed. Trust me I have tried it, 90% of reactions are positive and a few neutral ones. You can use the same mindset for nightgame but since you have no issues with it, no need to apply it.

I recently hanged out with a super super average looking guy and he showed my his Tinder profile. Many matches, some pretty decent girls and plenty of convos and even some nudes. So yeah it is just limiting belief from your part. There is 1 catch though, he looks way better in his pics. I showed his main profile pic to someone and they said "he looks nice", in real life they would never say so.

You are right but to be honest mass approaching is seen like that wherever you do it. Girls do not understand how it works for a guy to get girls so they will assume you are weird if you spam approach in general. I have heard girls many times call guys that spam approach in a club desperate and stuff. They are clueless about male attraction struggles. Best advice is not to tell girls about it because they will judge unfortunately. Guys do not give a fuck, even if you do daygame spam approaching. These are just my observations but my circle is quite international so I feel like it captures most diverse cultures of the world. Personally I am very respectful and polite whenever I approach so for me it does not make much of a difference. Issue with daygame is that many guys are socially retarted and do not know when to back off and the girls feel super uncomfortable. If you have good social intelligence and high empathy it should be ok. Also starting with a compliment can create a good vibe and leave the girl in a good mood. If you do daygame right it will make girls happy you approached them, but many guys do not do that and hence it has this bad reputation. You need to stand out from the crowd in a good way. Nightgame is also great and will grow you more than daygame, especially if you are a nice guy like me however for actual results it seems very very difficult. I would use it more for training and then daygame for actual results (dates, lays etc).

For me night game seems like a waste of time after you do it for a while. It depends on your personality and behaviour. For results I think daygame and online are far superior than night game however night game grows you more because girls in nightgame are super savage. Nightgame looks matter more than in daygame and brash loud extroverted behaviour is rewarded a lot more than in daygame. So if you struggle with those things it can help you grow. Also it is amaizing to get over your fear of rejection (main reason I was doing it). However if you are introverted or more soft spoken, lower energy than daygame is a lot better due to the connection you can create and it is usually 1 on 1. Also it can be more efficient since you can do basically do it anywhere. Online is best for just maximizing lays (the most efficient by far) but it does not grow you that much.

Females incentive guys to be players. Then they complain about being treated like shit.

The issue is that the opposite of high conscious behavior is rewarded in a guy like dominance, assertiveness, not giving a fuck etc. Meanwhile guys value looks which are not linked with low integrity, low consciousness behaviour.

Players are too rare and not good examples. The fact that females respond well to such pieces of shit is already the problem. Integrity in a guy does not get rewarded much, if females picked guys based on integrity and consciousness then all these gender stupid wars would end overnight.

I am from a second/third world country and feminism here is quite weak. Personally I like feminism in a lot of ways, however I cannot deny how much it has messed up marriages and the whole male/female dynamic. Where I live divorces are quite rare, men are masculine , women are feminine, everyone has equal rights and familes are quite healthy with no divorces to fuck up the childreen for the rest of their lives. Things just work. I see no reason why the rest of the world cannot do the same thing. I dont think a 50% divorce rate is healthy for society. Natural male/female dynamics keep everyone happy and modern feminism often is against them

Hello I had a question regarding this topic which I honestly do not understand. Why is the "boyfriend" frame as they call it, demonized so much when it comes to dating advice. I have nothing against the player frame, it can work very well and I have seen it work very well. However, I have also noticed it tends to attract specific types of girls and the results it gives are not what everyone might want. If you want to get laid a lot, player frame is great. If you go to clubs or very short term hookup environements it is also great. If you are dealing with very open minded girls which talk to a lot of guys and have sex casually, then player frame also I think is better. However, not all situations and girls are like this. I notice often with the guys in my city when they do day game for example, they loose girls sometimes because the girls wants a relationship and they are too aggressive for them. Also, some girls tend to be more relationship oriented and they are very careful whom they have sex with. For some girls sex is a lot of a bigger deal than for others. Therefore, If a guy wants to get a serious girlfriend that is not looking for anything casual, then what is wrong with the boyfriend frame? Personally, the player frame to me feels extremely unnatural and fake and I dont even care about it. I am sure this is the case for other guys in this forum also. Note, I am not saying the boyfriend frame means you have no game, just that you are looking for something more serious.

Because of the liberalization of the dating market. In the past it used to be a lot more socialist, 1 girl for 1 guy, no guy got left behind and most guys did not sleep with many girls. Now, we have situations where 1 guy can sleep with 20 girls which are all loyal to him, leaving 19 guys dry. It is basically like the typical ruthless capitalism where 1 percent of the people control half the wealth (not this bad but you get the point). This is further made worse by things like Online Dating where it is very easy for a high value guy to get laid a lot. Now you need to become a high value guy, otherwise you are fucked. No arrange marriage to save you.

You have plenty of guys with more money and status not getting the same success. Tate was able to make millions of people follow him like he is a God. The same skillset he probably used to get girls regardless of money or status. Like it or not, he is very charismatic and dominant.

1. He was COMING UP as a kickboxer most of the time. Not some super well known superstar. Also most kickboxers are not super known and popular like boxers are. 2. Pro kickboxers dont get paid that much, he has admited himself that it would not make him rich. They dont earn more than like 100k per year max. And that is at an elite level, most of the time he did not have that much or was even broke. He has said himself money is not necessary to get girls, you need to have a cool personality on top.

Saying Tate got girls because of his webcam scheme is not true. He started the webcame BECAUSE he was already good at getting girls. He said at the very beginning he took like 5 of his DIFFERENT girlfriends and gathered them and introduced the idea to them. If a guy has like 5 DIFFERENT girlfriends that are all hot, it already shows he knows what he is doing. I think Tate has natural game, he is very dominant, assertive, funny, charismatic and ruthless. Also he was a professional fighter which displays capacity for brutality, good body and 6 4. Perfect combination to attract girls, especially ones with low self esteem. He has videos where he says how he cold approaches, and did most of it at clubs and sometimes on the street. He has done pickup, it is just that he did not need to spam approach 20 girls a night and go there just for pickup because he was a natural and whole thing probably came easy to him. I know guys like that, they go to clubs for fun with their friends (not saying tate this specifically), then there they talk to couple girls casually and sometimes it works well for them. They dont need to do 10 warm ups to get state or any of that stuff. They are social and fun naturally, so couple approaches each night are enough to get results in the long run. Also pussying out to approach is more of a western thing. I am from the eastern europe and there it is super normal for guys to approach girls if they want to. They are not that scared and many do it since young (usually bullshit "hey u seem nice" from far away while chilling in a corner with their buddies) but still it shows fearlessness. Unfortunately they are usually scummy people. I dont know why most intelligent, kind, caring, consciouss guys that want a solid gf that i know, are scared shitless to approach I almost feel like there is a correlation between high conscioussness, integrity and maturity, and being scared to approach. Most guys i know that are like this had to force themselves to approach, it did not come naturally to them at ALL. Just my experience from observing people, yours might differ.

I have seen a few incel channels that tried PUA and then became Incels. What I noticed is that they tried maybe 100 approaches, it did not work out and they gave up. I took Leo 440 approaches to get his first lay, many many people would have quit, become blackpill and blame their looks or whatever at that point. Lack of perseverance is a big factor among incels. So they try pua stuff but because of their bad social skills or bad appearance they do not get laid on the first 50 approaches as youtube makes it seem and they are like "fuck this, im too ugly, girls are trash" etc and become blackpilled.