Karmadhi

Is Israel sanctioned? Are its leaders being called up or will be called up for war crimes? It is not equal treatment. It does not matter if 20.000 liberals march into Washington against Israel policies, what matters is that the actual governments punish Israel which they are not and probably will not do. I have heard plenty of reports that they keep weapons in civilian homes which is why Russia bombs them but I do not know if these claims are true.

How come when Russia did similar things in Mauripol during its siege everyone lost their shit and called them "war criminals" "animals" etc. Double standards right here... Russia would treat Ukraine way better than Israel treats Palestine and it would not kick them out of their homes if it won the war in its beginnings yet the struggle for Ukrainians to fight is praised upon. When Palestinians do it is frowned upon. The steaks for Palestinians here is higher because Russia sees Ukraine as part of itself while Israel sees Palestinians as inferior. You are talking about legal technicalities. Point is if someone kicks you out of your home, their cause to take revenge on you is just and understandable. Palestinian hatred towards Israel is justified. It does not justify Hamas atrocities though, but it makes them understandable. Also add on top of it treating them like shit for decades on top of taking their land. Calling this an unprovoked attack is not honest. It was bound to happen.

@Nivsch Thank you for your detailed response. Would you agree that the settlements in the West Bank needs to stop and the current government with the PM need to be replaced with a less right wing, less racist government for peace to follow? Also, I read that the current PM was on the process of changing the judiciary system to enhance his political power and Israelis were angry about that. What are your thoughts on that?

@Nivsch Since you seem a reasonable Israeli, I have a question. How is the Nakba justified in Israeli society, I saw a video of a Jewish professor saying you cannot even mention it there. Are Israelis aware of it and if yes, how is it justified? Nakba - Wikipedia for info.

Leo has said that Jews tend to have a lot of power in the US lobbying and therefore US (and europe because of US) tend to support Israel a lot. What do you think about it? Also there is some sort of racism towards Arabs from the west unfortunately. I feel like if it was not Israel but another arab country attacked the same way Hamas did, they would not react the same way.

I would create a clear policy. 1 Hamas fighter death is not worth 1 Palestinian kid death. That rule would not be broken. Simple.

Their REP literally said we would do a different approach if it was Israeli civilians instead so they are not doing their best at all. If they said: "Yes we would kill them the same because there is no other solution" then I would believe that there is no other way. But there is Also do you realize that these policies will create a new Hamas, probably more ruthless than the old one. To kill 1 Hamas person, they efficectvly laid the seeds for multiple new Hamas people to rise up in time. It is like the Hydra, you cut 1 head and 3 others replace it. For their own good Israel should not do this. Jew reputation is at its historical lowest since the 1930s and all of the Arab countries are mad at Israel. You have 2.2 million people that all lost a relative and their house. Even 1% of them becoming terrorists, you got now a new Hamas, probably more ruthless. Also most people affected are young, which makes it easier to convince them to become future terrorists. Iran, ISIS, Hesbullah, Talibans etc etc will be there to guide them to it. How do you plan to deal with this? I am curious. I am talking for your own country's good here. It is bad for the West also. A part of these new refugees will find their way in the West and relocated there as war refugees. When you got 2.2 milion people you are guaranteed for new terrorist acts to happen. And i am not even counting the already million of Arabs living in the West that are mad at Israel and the west. Biden is facing a chance to loose some states just because of muslims that historically voted democrat to not vote anymore for democrats. Giving rise to Trump. These things are not being thought through well I feel.

@DawnC What about West Bank? Why Israelis treat them like shit? No Hamas in West Bank, and Israelis keep taking land. It is just adding more fuel to the fire. Do not ignore that...

@Tobia How come Bush did that? Interesting... Did USA Israel relation get closer since then or was Bush less pro Israel?

@Nivsch I saw this interview here which basically said: "Would Israeli do the same tactics if Hamas was hiding among Israelis. The guy said "No". Now, I do agree that Israeli will care more about their own citizen lives than another country, I cannot realistically expect them not to. However, it shows that if Israel truly wanted, they could find ways to hit Hamas with less collateral damage. They are choosing the easy way out. "Oh there is an enemy somewhere there? Fuck it, just blow the whole area it will get him in the end". "What about all the civilians there"? "Fuck them, they support Hamas so they deserve to die along with them". There was a Piers Morgan interview with an Israeli ex PM (bald guy dont remember his name) and the guy legit said: "Many people in Gaza support Hamas, they are not independent variables". If a PM has that attitude it clarifies a lot about the fact that indeed Israelis think that Palestinians in Gaza are with Hamas and are all seen as the enemy. It would explain a lot with this carpet bombing bs. Now maybe some older people may support Hamas (and that is understandable) but half dying are young kids which are 100000% innocent and therefore this is barbaric. Imagine saying "Palestinians in Gaza elected Hamas in 2006, they like them" when literally half that are dying were not even born then. It is the same logic saying to German kids born in 1960s "You guys elected the Nazis so you like and support him'

You do realize Germany supports Israel because they feel guilt for the atrocities they commited on Jews, not because they think Israel is actually on the right. I mean kudos to them but Germany supporting you does not mean that you are on the right here... "Today the IDF admitted to killing 80+ civilians to kill 1 Hamas person. And they have no qualms about this. So this is their philosophy. At this rate they will kill 100,000 civilians just to kill 10% of Hamas. What will happen after the civilian death toll goes over 100,000? This is gonna create so much hatred of Jews around the world. Is that going to really make Jews feel safe?" This is Leo's comment. Would like your feedback on it. Especially on the barbaric philosophy that killing 80+ civilians is worth the life of 1 Hamas person. Do Israeli military even take into account the civilian deaths or they use some sort of Black Mirror vision goggles where they eliminate all civilians from their vision and only see Hamas and no other humans around? Honestly, educate me on this because I cannot understand how they think...

The fact that the Israeli government finds a ratio of 50 civilians dead and hundreds injured to kill 1 Hamas leader shows the fundamental issue in this war. A humane government would find another way, Palestinian civilians in large numbers lives should ALWAYS take priority over Hamas leaders deaths. They should get them in another way. It is not like they lack the money or technology or skill. It is a matter of will and humanity, things their government fundamentally lacks.

That is irrelevant. You sign something then you respect it or get punished. There are not "buts". Personally I do not think 50 civilians dead and hundreds wounded is worth 1 Hamas leader. I would get him another way and spare 50 people. This is the mindset of people that do not care about civilian deaths. 50 to 1 is unacceptable ratio. Dot. Those people are military people that are currently fighting and getting killed so I do not think war crime trials are necessary. They will fall in battle. If there are Hamas leaders chilling in other countries they should be arrested and sent to war crime trials for sure. Any news of it being replaced?

However the country should still suffer the consequences of not respecting them. This would imply war crime trials for its current government and some military leaders. But can you explain to me from an Israeli point of view why that is not the case? I have seen endless footage of harassment, humiliation and even kids getting shot from police wanting to test their accuracy. Barbaric stuff. Just why? What did those poor people do to deserve that?

The fundamental issue with Israel as a state is that it is created and flourished at the expense of others. Everyone that values fairness and equality a lot will find the country itself built on problematic grounds and therefore will be a lot less sensitive to its suffering even if it is genuine. Combine this with the way Israel has treated Palestinians in general, INCLUDING THE WEST BANK WHERE THERE IS NO HAMAS, SO NO TERRORISTS We see now a rise in antisemitism all over the world, it is sad because most of the Jews outside Israel have no say it in. What I wish can happen after all this is that Israel will learn it is NOT above intentional law and start treated Palestinians, at least in the West Bank where they do not do terrorist attacks from, as equals. I do not think it is much to ask for. But please, everyone here that is Pro Israel or from Israel, why does Israeli treat Palestinians in the West Bank badly there? As far as I saw there is no Hamas there, why are not they treated as equals to Jews?

So you are admitting Israel is in the wrong in the way they are reacting and dealing with this.

They are as trustworthy as the Russian media to be honest at this point...

@hundreth Then enjoy endless wars and bullshit. I do not even live there, this is for your own people s good. You realize Israel is close to becoming the most hated country in the world, toppling even Russia after what they been doing in Palestine. Instead of changing your image after endless persecution, you are just making yourself more hated than ever. Sad.

The issue with Jews is that their religion basically says "We are people chosen by God and everyone else s purpose is to serve us". Hard to be popular with such arrogant entitlement. The people can be nice of course but the actual ideology is extremly arrogant, racist and entitled

@hundreth You relocated in a place that hates you guts and the only reason you exist there is because of war and terror. Dont you think you would be better off in a place where you would be welcomed? I am saying this for your own good. It does not seem fun to be surrounded by people that want to wipe you out. Arabs will never accept Israel, especially when their existance is at the expense of other Arabs. It is an endless cycle of bullshit. How easy can it be avoided by going somewhere where people actually want you. Too sad that the whole reason Israel is there is because US/UK wanted to destabilize the region and they used Israel to do so. There are videos of Biden saying openly in the 1980s "If there was no Israel, we would create one there".

The Jews in Israel should transfer and make their own country somewhere where they are actually wanted. There were dozens of proposed places to create a Jewish state and they chose it on the worst possible place. How about they go somewhere else, maybe in the USA since USA always supports them even when they do genocide? They do not seem very welcomed in the Middle East. It is an Arab Muslim area so why the hell would they even make it there? You can clearly see it is to destabilize the region, good job UK/USA. Food for thought. I am all up for Jews having their own state but there is 0 reason for the state to be where it currently is. It just fucks over the region endleslly But it appears that is what the West wants.

@zazen Exactly! Hamas and their barbarity is 1000% Israeli fault because of their ruthless policies in decades. Terrorists do not come out of thin air as Leo says. What Israel is doing in their current barbaric treatment of Palestinian civilians will cause another Hamas. Probably more ruthless. But they seem too stupid to understand this. They had a good chance to respond humanely to the brutal Hamas attack but they are hitting them back 10x harder. A big mistake.

@Leo Gura I feel like it is way more effective for Arab countries to cut all oil/gas to the west and israel than do proxy wars. It would force the west into talks considering they also ditched russia when it comes to energy supplies.

@Leo Gura Do you think Hesboullah or other groups or countries will join in the war? If they combine Israel will be in trouble. Also a possible oil/gas embargo from Arab world to the West, I saw Qatar was threatining it already (they are their biggest gas supplier since they cut ties with russia).

@Leo Gura They have been clashing already in Northen Gaza and it does not seem too bad for them. I do not know if Hamas is luring them into a trap or not but so far their losses do not seem that high. They seem confident. However if Hesboullah and company also attacks it would be a different story of course.