Karmadhi

@zazen The issue with Israelis is that they do not see themselves as oppressors and settlers. Unless they do, then they will always play the victim.

They also interviewed Jews in concentration camps saying "we are ok here", as propaganda movies. PragerU is pure horshit blue propaganda. I would not take it seriously. Also, is this about West Bank or Gaza? Because that is where the horrible things happen. They are poor because of Israel, so of course Israel is more desirable. When you become rich at expense of others, that is blood money.

War against childreen and women you meant? Because most dying are them. They killed civilians, which is horrible but nothing new. Google "massacres" you will see hundreds and hundreds of them through history. I dont know why the world lost its shit about this specific massacre. Serbians massacred 8000 in Bosnia for example. Just in this century you had dozens of massacres, some with higher death tolls. But of course when rich countries get massacred everyone looses their shit. Typical. Your language is pure propaganda. "Seal of humanity". Bruh go open a history book. They did textbook massacre stuff. Nothing new. So is Israeli of course. They do textbook terror bombing. However Israeli is not getting condemned for their textbook bullshit. I do agree that Israel is somewhat hold off by the international community but still it is getting a lot of free passes. You cannot say "way more casualties" when you have 40.000 tonnes of bombs dropped on an area the size of London in 1 month and a half.

You guys here that support Israel are really naive. The reason the death toll is so high, is not by fault but by design. Dahiya doctrine - Wikiwand I will quote: "The Dahiya doctrine, or Dahya doctrine, is a military strategy of asymmetric warfare, outlined by former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Chief of General Staff Gadi Eizenkot, which encompasses the destruction of the civilian infrastructure of regimes deemed to be hostile as a measure calculated to deny combatants the use of that infrastructure and endorses the employment of "disproportionate force" to secure that end. The doctrine is named after the Dahieh neighborhood of Beirut, where Hezbollah was headquartered during the 2006 Lebanon War, which were heavily damaged by the IDF" This is what they are doing in Gaza as a response to the Hamas attack. It is done to beat them so badly, to crush them so much that they will never dare to raise against Israel again. Basically to terrorize the entire population of Gaza into submission so every man knows if they dare to attack Israel, their entire family will be killed in response. This will make them think twice about doing so. I dont understand why is it so hard for you guys to accept it? It does make logical and strategical sense (although I think it is not effective). The Germans had a similar policy against Slavs partisan attacks during the second world war. They burn down villages close to where the Partisan attacks happened in response. This is not some new invention, it is textbook military strategy.

The West is not a racist ethno state like Israel is. Israel is the most racist first world country in the world. The war has been ongoing for decades. Not clear who started what. Israel is also a terrorist government. At least the current one. Not much more developed than Hamas. UN and every non biased party says otherwise. I trust them more than a nation full of liars like Isarel is. And so does the rest of the world. Trusting Israel more than the UN or Red Cross is comical. There is some truth to that but if Israel wanted the death toll would be way lower regardless.

I love how Israel uses the "We are a democracy" to elevate themselves morally from the rest of the region. What are human rights good for if they dont apply to you if you are Palestinian? The Gulf countries have none of the things you wrote above yet many people from all over the world live there and they rarely immigrate. How come?

I am curious if Hamas teleported in Tel Aviv and was holding every school, hospital etc in Tel Aviv would Israel be ok to raze Tel Aviv to the ground and kill 13.000 Israeli civilians if it means taking out Hamas. You can tell they value Israeli babes far more than Palestinian babies. I do not expect equality but at least some sort of care.

If you were treated like Palestinians have been treated by Israel you would also become radical. When Jews had an uprising against the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto nobody was saying "those evil terrorists". I think you fundamentally underestimate how ruthless and oppresive Israel is to Palestinians. Do a bit of research.

A woman is not evil for fighting back against her rapist. However, if the woman s behavior's towards the rapist are the main reason that the person became the rapist in the first place then she is also to be blamed. The people killed per say are innocent and I feel bad for them but Israel s policies are the main reason why those people are dead. Israel is just as at fault here as Hamas is. And they do not accept any responsibility for this. They just blame Hamas when they are responsible for Hamas existing in the first place. They got attacked by the monster they themselves created. This is not to be overlooked. When the head of UN says that the attack of Hamas did not happen in a vacuum, instead of accepting their responsability and changing their policies towards Palestinians, they instead ban UN staff from entering and double down on the violence on the West Bank by killing like 150 innocent civilians. Shameless...

@Buck Edwards Also he seems to care more about Israeli civilians dying than Palestinians. And he is not a Jew. That is the epitome of douchebagery.

@Leo Gura I think this is the first thread in this forum to go over 200 pages. Congrats

I was saying that the Jewish minorities in Muslim countries get treated better than Palestinians in Israel. You do not need Jewish kids shot as target practice for fun or burned alive for no reason like you see happen in West Bank by the Israeli regime. Then people wonder why Hamas is so brutal. Israel taught them well.

Nationality is not religion. Do not confuse the two.

Most people are not anti semetic. Why would liberals be against Israel? Liberal green people are not anti semetic. They are anti oppression and anti bully and Israel is oppressive and an bully. According to Stage Green it is. Calling stage green antisemetic is horseshit.

It is grounded in Religion. Its equivalent would be Talebans, ISIS or Hamas. An ethno state made of people from X religion and those people have special status. It is cancer on earth. Just like countries like Iran, Taleban Afghanistan etc are. It is basically the Judaism version of the Islamic Caliphat. The concept of the Islamic Caliphat is frowned upon by most countries, do not be suprised that Zionism also gets a ton of hate by ordinary people. Radicalism is not liked. You have countless people in Israel justifying taking land because "It is given to us by God". This is just as proposterous as stoning a woman for not wearing Hijab because "Allah said she should do it". Radicalism 101. You may say that Israel is a democracy etc and that may be true, it is run as stage orange country. However the conception of Israel itself as a state is extremly blue, toxic blue.

Before the Talebans Afghanistan was not an Islamic State though. And Taleban government which was formed last year is not recognized by almost anyone. "As of late 2022, no country recognizes them as the lawful government of Afghanistan, however, there has been limited recognition of their de facto governance over the country." So it just proves that Religious based countries are not welcomed in the world. Iran is also heavily disliked by many including the West. So do not be suprised that Israel is also disliked by many (not the Western governments though).

Iran s current regime is horrible and their citizens are tired of it. Once their leader dies I think there will be another revolution and radical Islam will be removed from power there. The natural order of things where stage blue goes to orange is bound to happen there soon. I do not support Iran, the world would be better if it became a secular country not a radical religious dictatorship like it currently is. People there though are extremely nice and not racist at all. I met many from there. They told me there is around 20% or so which are religious fanatic Mullahs that have the power, the rest are not radicals and actually want to become more Western. They definetly treat them better than Israel treats Palestinians though. You cannot deny that. According to the author of Sapiens in an interview with Piers Morgan, it was retaliation for the Nakba. Yes it was wrong though. They could not defeat Israel in a war so they kicked out all their Jews as a form of revolt. There are millions of Palestinians abroad. They have the biggest diaspora per capita in the world. Jordan alone has millions of them.

@hundreth ISIS wanted to do that, an Islamic state. It caused global outrage and they were destroyed. The rest like UAE, Egypt etc have majority Muslims but they also have religious minorities living there and they are not created for the purpose of being an Islamic state. The difference is the purpose why the country exists. ISIS s purpose was to be that, an Islamic state and it got destroyed because of it. I understand the world feels like they "owe" Jews considering how they were treated but Arabs do not owe Jews anything. If there is something like a Zionist state, it should be on the land of countries that actually treated Jews horribly. Like Germany. However Europeans did not want them so they dumped them in Palestine. Also Israel where it is, was used as a tool to control the region by the West. As Biden said "If there was no Israel, the US would have to invent an Israel there". Shows that there is much more here than just "Jews should have a homeland there". Lots of interests, both political and economical. Mostly because Arab area has lots of oil. Before Israel Jews and Muslims lived together in Palestine and all was good.

There are many interests at play here. Gaza has access to sea, resources, and it is land Israel can claim if they continue doing it. They are not just doing this to kill Hamas, they got other objectives on top of that. Resources and land. Would not be suprised if Hamas is the excuse used for these other goals, same way "WMD" were used to invade Iraq.

Hamas wanting to destroy Israel as an INSTITUTION is understandable. I do not blame them for that at all. However, destroying an institution and killing innocent civilians are different things. You can destroy an institution by destroying governmental and military buildings and killing soldiers. Killing innocent civilians randomly in massacres is totally wrong and not justifiable. That is the error Hamas makes. Also when you say "we will eradicate Jews" that is not acceptable. If they said "we will destroy the concept of the Israeli state but not harm civilians in mass while doing so" then that is ok considering how Israel treated them in decades. You guys need to make the distinction between destroying the artificial social construction that is a "state" and taking human lives. You can do the first without burning kids alive. No reason to do that. It is totally unnecessary. Also people should be free to practice whatever religion they want at peace. If Israel is gone, Hamas should let the Jews practice their religion at peace. There is no reason for Jews to have an ethnic state. I do not see an Islamic state or Christian state anywhere. A state should be for everyone to live in and live in equally. Sure, you can have majorities but the idea of a "Jewish state" is in itself racist and discriminatory. Imagine if a state said "You either convert to our religion or need to leave, we will only have people following X religion here". The world would loose its shit. Judaism is ok, Zionism is a disaster.

So there are radicals at both sides. "Soon after Mohammed’s murder, his parents laid down a small memorial stone, surrounded by flowers. A few months later, in September 2014, the Israeli police threatened to destroy the memorial. For the Palestinian family, maintaining the humble memorial was a daily struggle." Why would they do this? I really wish it was but the endless footage of them cheering on deaths of civilians shows me otherwise. You have many decent people there, also many radicals and animals. Same in Palestine. Sad situation. And yes Hamas sucks, no need to not mention that. But I cannot help but understand where they come from. I cannot understand where Israel is coming from. If Israeli did this to Germans or even Europeans after being treated like shit by them then I would understand (although condenmn it). I do not see why Palestinians deserve it. And I am talking in general not just what is happening from last month. A human that becomes an animal from abuse, I can understand. A human that becomes an animal for no reason, I cannot.

Equally disgusting to Israel police offers practing their shooting skills on kids in the West Bank and laughing about it or filming rockets from Israel striking Gaza and cheering on. As I said, both sides have barbaric people in them. Hatred causes this. My question is, why does Israel hate Palestine and Arabs? What did they ever do to you? And all these examples were before the attack last month so it cannot be used as a reason.

To be honest it is not because they are Jews per say. If they were Christian it would be the same. Unsure if they were muslim.

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/visiting-the-home-of-mohammad-abu-khdeir-who-was-burned-alive-by-israeli-settlers/ https://www.nbcnews.com/storyline/west-bank-kidnappings/slain-palestinian-teens-body-unrecognizable-father-says-n146626 Here you go Even the peaceful ones are still thieves. Theft sends you to jail. There are countless videos I seen of Israeli people supporting murder of babies in Palestine, making fun of the situation there. It has even become a Tik Tok trend. I do agree that Palestinians can be more ruthless but there is a difference. WHEN YOU ARE CRUEL TO SOMEONE FOR NO REASON IT IS WORSE THAN WHEN YOU ARE SUPER CRUEL TO SOMEONE THAT TREATED YOU LIKE SHIT FOR DECADES. You Israelis never seem to understand this... You can give 100 reasons why Palestinians hate Israelis but there are no reason for Israelis to hate Palestinians other than classic racism.

Although to be fair I have noticed that the people killed by Hamas have gotten little recognition by many people including Liberals. What happened to them was horrible. I think it is because when a ruthless oppressor finally gets hit back, even if that hit back involves innocent people, people tend to be more tolerant to it. Similar to how the bombing of Dresden which was a clear horrible war crime was ignored because it was done to Nazis and people were sick with their bs. Similar here, people were already sick with Israel bs. However there should be more condemnation of it, I mean people even celebrated about it in the west. They saw it as "we finally hit them back", ignoring that the hit back was mostly massacre of civilians. "Hit them back" should be on soldiers. If it was just soldiers dead it would deserve praise, but civilians? I dont agree with celebrating killing kids... Nor killing people from countries that have nothing to do with this like the German tattoo artist. Maybe they were not aware that it was so ruthless and many civilian dead? I know the Israelis here will say "anti semitism" but I am talking about Liberals here kind of ignoring the Israeli civilians killed. Liberals are not anti Jews. I dont know what you guys think?