Karmadhi

@Nivsch Tell me, how do you justify this? I searched and 926 civilians killed from Palestine and 3 civilians killed from Israel. Total killed in Palestine 1166 to 1417 and 13 in Israel (including 4 soldiers death by enemy fire). How does your peace lover Israeli IDF justify this barbarity? Picking the exact time childreen are on the streets to beging bombing is one of the most diabolical things I have ever heard. And they dare call Hamas evil. They are as inhumane.

The issue is decades of occupacion and atrocities. If you look at the situation in 2023, you can say that a lot of the measures are necessary, fair. However, the reason they are necessary is because of deep resentment that comes from people that have been oppressed all their lives. It is an endless cycle of violence and hatred. I have never seen in the world such hatred between two groups of people. Someone needs to step up, swallow their pride/ego and put an end to the hate, even if it costs them a bit. Same way Mandela did. Since Israel is a lot richer, more developed and has more educated people it has the moral obligation in my opinion to do so. With great power and knowledge comes great responsability. The current Israeli government is the worst government possible to do so. Leo also said that Israel has been doing lowkey ethnic cleansing for 50 years now. Unless you recognize this, put a stop on it instead of funding further illegal settlements and calling for Gaza to be ethnically cleansed, there will be no more change and Palestinians will still try to do terrorist attacks on you.

That war comes from oppression and desire for ethnic cleansing. Israel treats them like shit, so they should not cry about being attacked. Here is a solution for you: Go back to 1947 borders and give them 50% of the land. Lets see if Israel wants to do that. Doing that would decrease terrorism by a ton. Also do war crime trials for anyone that has broken international law. Give Palestinians equal rights rather than random soldiers raiding their houses at 3am without any warrant or shooting kids via snipers. Do all of these and I assure you terrorism will be greatly reduced. But ofc they wont do that because fundamentally Isarel are also selfish devils.

@Lila9 This is proof that brutally crushing resistance and treating Palestinians as lesser and cleansing them does not work. You take out Hamas in Gaza, another gets created in West Bank. I had a conversation with some friends, they said West Bank should fight like Hamas did in Gaza because eventually Israel wants to kick them all out and treat them like subhuman trash. Better die fighting. This is the sentiment people have about Israel which motivates them to do stuff like you wrote. Something fundamental needs to change, giving Palestinians right and some of their land back. Otherwise you take out 1 head, 2 others replace it. Forever and ever. Endless cycle of violence.

Look there is 1 factor you need to consider. When the attacks first happened and people found out, nobody knew that civilians were targeted in mass and villages massacred etc. Personally when I saw it, I thought they had broken the wall and went after Israeli soldiers and military outposts. And to be honest It felt like karma to me. I was happy for them (although I knew the hell that would be unleashed on them as a response) I have huge disgust with the IDF, especially its commanders and the current Israeli government. I genuinely think many of them belong in the Hague jails for war crimes commited throughout decades. However when I saw the news about the civilian killings, about burning childreen alive etc, I changed my mind and felt ashamed for being happy about it earlier. I simply did not know. Maybe those in Gaza when they celebrated thought that people broke in, not that civilians were massacred. A

Timeline of Israel-Palestine fatalities 2008-2023 - 2023 Israel–Hamas war - Wikipedia 6400 Palestinians killed compared to 300 Israelis since 2008. If you call 300 dead torture imagine what Palestinians must feel like. Numbers are the fundamental proof about who is butchering who here.

If your child was put in a cage and trialed at a military court for throwing rocks at a soldier and random soldiers came as they pleased by breaking the door searching without a warrant you would feel oppressed. Also forgot countless checkpoints just to move around your country and not being hit by snipers without warning. Saying there is no oppression of Palestinians when there have been countless reports from many international organizations is pure delusion. Talk with some Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza about their daily life and you will see for yourself. Easy to say there is no oppression from your comfortable first world country in Israel or wherever you live without a worry in the world.

I think the civilian death toll could have been way lower than it is, Ukraine being an example of urban fighting with lower civilian death toll. I was neutral at start but when I did research on how inhumanely Israel has treated Palestinians in decades and saw their ridicioulous lies about how mass murdering kids is ok that I became heavy Pro Palestine. Countless kids maimed or dead in social media did not help either.

Do not bomb hospitals, schools, areas that you told people to evacuate in the first place, no 2000 paund bombs, no dumb bombs, give more times to civilians to flee, entering tunnels when feasible, do not block aid from UN in the border, do not cut fuel, water electricity, no ridicioulous 50 civilians for 1 terrorist being acceptable etc. These would have been a good start.

Well a 165/1 child death ratio between Israel and Gaza does not help on making people neutral and not 1 sided

Why is the civilian death toll in Ukraine spanning dozens of tows, cities etc not even half of Gaza's? Ukraine population is like 20 times larger too. There are ways to do war with less civilians. And Russians are not angels either.

Very nice interview.

@Danioover9000 Are you shocked with people for killing the thieves that took their houses from them? All those lands Hamas attacked are stolen land illegally. The 1947 borders did not consider them to be in Israel . I mean it is extreme but understandable.

You do realize all the land around Gaza is stolen land? It was not in the 1947 plan. So Israel should not cry when stolen gets attacked. Why are there Israelis on those towns to begin with? I blame Israel for pushing people to the point of firing rockets on them. Terrorism comes as a result of bad policy. That and also giving people in West Bank same rights as Jews in Israel. That would help a ton. Not treat them like a terrorist state. What do you suggest to minimize civilian deaths? They want to annex it and cleanse it of Palestinians and build more settlements there. Check what your right win fanatic ministers are saying.

Thing is that Hamas mostly stays in tunnels not in houses. That is where their supplies, weapons etc are. So you need to take out the tunnels to get Hamas funadementally. In order to do so i mean Israel has like 400.000 soldiers. Just go in there carefully. Tunnels warfare is not a new thing. . They outnumber Hamas 10/1 plus superior technology. No civilians in tunnels either. Plus also bombing areas that are deemed safe, bombing hospitals etc is not acceptable.

1. They treated Palestinians so bad that they now fear their revenge and hence they feel the need to occupy them. Similar to how the Nazis were terrified of the advancing Soviets towards the end of WW2 because of how the Nazis had treated the Soviets earlier in the war. The reason Palestinians are scary to Israel is because of how Israel treated them throughout the decades. It turned them into hateful fanatics against Isarel. Not all, but some. 2. I am all for taking out Hamas but not in the way Israel is doing it. They can do surgical bombing and send troops in the tunnels. I would much rather have Israel loose 5000 soldiers than have 10.000 kids die in Palestine. They can easily have quotas. For example: If I kill 1 hamas fighter what civilian toll is acceptable? The IDF has killed 80 people for 1 Hamas guy. That ratio is not acceptable. If there are 10 Hamas guys they want to kill but doing so with a strike would kill 100 civilians, then you do not do that strike. You either surgically attack them like they did in Lebanon and if that cannot be done you send soldiers. You loose 4 soldiers but save 100 civilians. It is not rocket science.

No of course not but Israel has done most of the fault here by being created at the expense of others. You cannot give a homeless a house by kicking the person that lives there out which is basically what Israel did. People say it is because of the 1948 war but even if Israel was invaded and it won the war, it does not excuse them kicking out 750.000 Palestinians. When France defeated Germany in WW1 it did not kick out 30% of the German population. The number of Palestinians kicked and the land stolen was too high in my opinion. If Israel stopped treating Palestine and especially the West Bank like a terrorist state but instead gave those in West Bank same rights as Jews and treated them within international law it would improve a lot. No snipping childreen or illegal settlements. I think moderate parts in Palestine do want a two state solution but ideally it would be a 50/50 or 60/40 split.

Ideally to me Ukraine will make peace with Russia ending the war there and Israel and Palestine will create a two state solution combined with elimination of Hamas ending the war there.

@kenway But Israel is the most humane country in the region according to some of the genocide supporters in this group

Israel has been doing terrorism oppression in Palestine for decades. So they are fundamentally at fault. The attack on October 7th was Palestine fighting back, Hamas did not start this war. There was oppression and war there for decades. I understand Israel right to defend itself but fundamentally they brough it on themselves. If they had treated Palestinians humanely all these decades the attack would not have happened. It is very manipulaive and ignorant to say "Hamas attacked Israel out of the blue, so it is their fault". Israel is the historical aggressor here. I find it laughable for all the killings of Israel in Palestine for decades to be ignored and when Palestine starts killing some Israeli civilians everyone looses their shit. What happened in October the 7th is not even 1/10 of what Israel has done historically in Palestine. To make things even they need to do 10 more of those attacks which is why their spokesman said "we will do it again if we can". Not that I support those attacks on civilians but I undersand why they happen. Just like I understand Ukraine recently illegally bombing civilians in Russia some days ago considering all the civilian bombings Russia has been doing there for years.

https://www.un.org/unispal/document/auto-insert-179791/ By far the most barbaric first world country in the world.

https://www.trtworld.com/middle-east/israeli-destruction-of-gaza-surpasses-that-of-mariupol-ww2-germany-16341083 Israel is making Putin's Russia actions in Ukraine look like angels. An impressive feat. Nice job Israel, becoming the new enemy of humanity for 2024 after dethroning Russia.

Look man, we know Israel is a rich as fuck first world country. I am sure it is an amaizing place to live for Jews and perhaps better than many Middle Eastern countries even for Arabs. Personally I would be treated well there, I can come without a visa and my country has amaizing relations with Israel since we were the only country in Europe that had a Jewish population multiple times higher since we sheltered them in at our own risk. Israel is grateful to us for that and our leaders meet often. I have massive respect for Jewish work around the world, many writters and academics I like are Jewish, like the author of Sapiens. So for me Israel would seem a great country for the most part. No arguments there. However, the way Israel treats Palestinians in the West Bank and Gaza is absolutely disgusting to me. It makes my blood boil how they can get away with it. I have also heard there is some degrees of racism within the country where black or Arab Jews are treated as lower class citizens compared to white jews but unfortunately that happens in many countries still so it is what it is. Biggest issue I have with Israel is the ridicioulous number of Palestinian civilians it kills almost yearly, not just on the current war. They had skirmishes before and ALWAYS the ratio is like 20/1. Combine this with West Bank being treated like a terrorist state and Israel keep expanding with illegal settlements and I cannot respect the country, at least when it comes to how they treat Palestinians. Lastly, it baffles me how they can elect a government that literally calls for genocide of others and openly says in talk shows that all Gazans are animals and we will wipe them out. I have heard lawyers, doctors, even some politicans say such things. I sent you once a guy saying "we should turn Gaza into Dresden" if you remember. For example when USA was attacked in 9/11, I do not think people in the USA were openly saying in shows such comments. It is 1 thing to say: "We will kill the terrorists and those responsbilie etc" and it is another to say "We will wipe out an entire group of people". Bombing hospitals, refugee camps, humanitarian corridors etc is totally unacceptable in 2023 even if there are some terrorists there, when you know those places are packed with civilians. The highest death toll among journalists, higher than WW2, and hundreds of health staff killed shows how indiscriminate the bombing is. It is similar to what Russians did in Mauripol but with much much higher people dead. And Mauripol was considered a war crime galore by most countries including the West. You do not need to be a war analyst to see that the policy that mostly kills women and childreen is flawed.

Money corrupts people, I am sure they would prefer to live like second class citizens in a rich country. Telling a thief to return what he stole may be LaLa land to you but Russia giving Crimea back to Ukraine is equally LaLa yet you advocate for it.

I just saw, population wise Israel is around 7 million Jews and Palestine is around 5 million, add another 2 million Arabs from Israel and it is 50/50. By default the land that was the British Palestinian Mandate should be 50/50 split, meanwhile Israel has like 85% of it. Why dont they retreat and give the Arabs there half the land, since they are half the population? Curious. @Nivsch Same question to you.