Karmadhi

When it comes to Israel it is the opposite I view them as less developed than you do Just saying

You are basically describing Hamas which is a minority of Palestinians Majority of Palestinians live under PLO, which is none of those things It is a Stage Blue nationalist movement that is not suicidal Gaza is not Palestine Palestine is Gaza plus West Bank Putting them on red/purple is your opinion, I think they are mostly Blue with some Red when it comes to Hamas These are not exact math I think we fundamentally disagree on the level of development of Palestinian society If you view Palestinians in Gaza and West Bank as overwhealmingly Stage Red, then all your points stand If you view them mostly Blue like I do then they do not stand "Meanwhile you have a fantasy of peaceful Palestinians. Because the liberal minds projects itself onto them." I simply view them as more developed than you do which is why I believe them to be sane enough not to do a suicidal attack once they get a proper state If Palestine was ONLY Gaza then I would consider your point a lot more But I have not seen anything from West Bank to show me they are suicidal Also I do not view them as peaceful. Just not suicidal I dont expect them to allow Israelis to travel or work in the new Palestinian state if they get one. Also I am indeed liberal but not libtard. I come off as somewhat too left here but in real life in other topics I am more reasonable that I may appear here Sorry for that

You can have that area with an UN military base or Gulf country army base to keep Palestinians from using it. Or it can be some sort of border zone. You have such situations in other countries and it has worked out

And why do you assume they will continue being suicidal? You are assuming as well as I am. The majority of Palestinians live in the West Bank under the PLO which is not suicidal. What I believe that new state will be, is another Jordan. Jordan already has like half of the population as Palestinians. Israeli leadership funded Hamas to weaken the more moderate Palestinian entities. They intentionally kept Palestinians ruled by the most radical factions to show they are too primitive to reason with. They did not act in good faith. Netanyahu has been caught on tape admitting this. By not giving Palestine a state they will keep getting attacked. It is not like the status quo is working great for them

An agreement can include a de-militarized zone on the most fragile location that could indeed pose such a threat There are many ways to make it work if Israel really wants The reason they do not want is because they want all of Judea and Samaria cuz God gave it to them Anything else is lame excuses

I explained it clearly that the reason it was that they saw no hope, no state, a brutal siege and no prospects Desperate people are suicidal If Palestinians get a state, they will stop being suicidal since there will be hope It is like you ignore people in Gaza had no state and were under a siege when they decided to do a suicidal attack October 7th is a very bad example of what would Palestinians do if they had a state since Gaza was the furthest thing from a state.

Why would Palestinians attack Israel and risk suicide if they get their country? The reason they do terrorism to begin with, is the brutal occupation and medievil siege that Israel has placed on them If they have a legit state of their own with full autonomy, the suicidal desire will be removed People are suicidal when they see no other alternative It is not "typical leftist fashion" it is simple logic that you can see in other conflicts where coerced groups feel they have no other choice but do terrorism Northen Ireland situation was also doing terrorism until the situation got resolved Now it is no longer the case I notice you view Palestinians as suicidal terrorist which is the way American medias tries to frame them In reality majority are very reasonable people and only resort to terrorism when everything else has failed If they have their own state, there will no longer be such need to attack. Also, lets just exercise the idea that Palestine will still attack. Is not that already happening? Do you really think a weak Palestinian state with gdp smaller than jordan will magically become an existencial threat to Israel? I would argue the current set up is more dangerous for Israel than a Palestinian state More Israelis have died by Palestinian attacks than by Lebanese army for example which is a state (including Hezbollah) Some food for though

Far left and far right are not the majority of the population Majority supports a two state The only core difference between the left and right on this is that the left wants Israel to face consequences for its actions instead of just creating a state for Palestine So create a State+ war crime investigations + potential sanctions Instead of just create a State The 1 state solution which is totally unrealistic imo is not as supported as Instagram or Tik Tok may make it appear "Free Palestine" to me is not 1 state but just to end the occupation and give Palestinians their own state

That is Israeli propaganda, I am suprised you actually believe it The reason Palestinians attack Israel is because they do not have a state and not via versa And Gaza was not a state, it was a lame excuse for a state which did not cool down the hot blood. When a proper state gets created it will chill out the majority of the Palestinian population and the radical minority will be eventually removed from power by internal pressure. You have said yourself Israelis have never negotiated in good faith when it comes to this issue.

Yet according to a poll you sent yourself, a third of Israelis want him to keep his job Any normal government would have discharged him a long time ago and if they did not, internal pressure from the population would have How come there are no massive protests against him? He is totally insane, not just "right wing".

There is a global overall consensus the best solution is a two state solution. All non-radical global actors agree with it. It is not complicated. Also accountability for Israel crimes just like Russia has faced accountability No reason not to sanction Israel, they are not too cool for school

We can agree on that

I honestly do not understand how an average American citizen can be against DSA Like, I am sure they got some insane positions but overall they seem much more evolved than republicans or establishment democrats Also their policies actually do benefit the ordinary American Cheaper or free Healthcare, cheaper education, higher wages, lower costs etc It is very self-serving to support them, yet they prefer billionare obsessed sell-outs like Trump Can someone from USA explain this to me? Why would anyone vote for Cuomo over Mandani? Or not vote for Abdul but vote for that woman (cant remember her name) I am not even talking about Israel and Palestine I notice a lot of people in USA are obsessed with that topic I am talking about pragmatism, about what actually benefits you as an ordinary American My European mind glitches

I do not agree with the premise of this thread It is not that society hates ugly people It is just that ugly people do not have the same innate advantages that beautiful people do They need to compensate more as they are lacking in that value providing aspect of themselves However, saying "hate" is a big word Also, I think there is a gender component I feel men tend to be tolerated more for not being beautiful compared to women This depends a bit on the country, usually on more traditional societies that is the case

As a fellow liberal I will do my best to explain my interpretation Liberals in general tend to support oppressed or marginalized groups of people That is their default software Also, most liberals tend to be in Western countries since those countries are Stage Green However, in Western countries, islam and muslims have a very bad reputation There is a lot of prejudice, xenophobia and racism towards them Since muslims are usually arab and Western European is mostly white and Christian, these groups tend to be more marginalized Recent terrorist attacks have not helped the situation and the far right tends to attack them a lot Since in the liberal mind, oppressed people are not bad but can be even good, islam=good or at least not bad Lastly, some hardcore liberals tend to dislike anything "white" or "european", it is toxic self guilt and self hatred Since islam is seen as a foreigner thing, it is by default good since what is western=bad This is the most extreme cases, usually it is more related to the oppression topic I explained earlier Hope it helps

When I watch proper Zionist podcasts or videos I notice an insane victim mindset from them Basically the idea that the world is out to get them and they are hated regardless of what they do They cannot understand that the hate they get is usually in relation to the bad things they do Also, they are insanely and i mean insanely Islamophobic The irony is that if someone spoke about Judaism the same way as they speak about Islam they would be rightfully called a Nazi by them

Yes and they are way more radical than Mandani, Bernie or AOC Biden is centrist Mandani, Bernie etc is normal left Hasan is far left/hardcore/extreme left Normal left is better than centrist or far left That is how I see it

That is true, I was referring to 1 version of the toxic far left perhaps Regarldess, my long response regarding "what is far left is relative based on where you are living" still stands I think it would be helpful if you studied European politics and see what a true far hardcore left can be https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/La_France_Insoumise Left to far left in France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Linke Far left in Germany https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Workers'_Party_of_Belgium Far left in Belgium This is what I consider to be far left, so when I hear than Mandani or myself are far left I find it a bit puzzling The left is not just foreign policy, it is also economy, social issues, redistribution of income, affordability of basic services etc

I think we have different views of what a "hardcore leftie" is since we live in different parts of the world In USA probably I am indeed a "hardcore leftie", however in Europe where i live I am not Neither is Mandani. He is probably considered center to center left in much of Europe I invite you to read about far left parties in Western Europe to see how far it can go Also, I am much more realist when it comes to actual solutions to problem than you might think It is just that when I see grave injustice I emotioanlly lash out when we are not in "problem solving mode" For example when it comes to Ukraine I am much more realistic than Destiny who wants Ukraine to fight forever to get territory back they simply are not powerful enough to take On Ukraine he suddendly becomes like a hardcore Pro Pali saying Ukraine got fucked so it would be wrong if they submit in any way. Yet they will realistically because they are simply outmatched Also on Palestine I am pro two state, not the 1 state madness hardcore leftiest say Neither do I want Israel to be destroyed as far leftiest say

He is against Mandani which is not a far left radical Also he probably favours Biden over Bernie They are not far left, USA has a very cartoonish view that socialist=communist=stalinist What people like Mandani, AOC and Bernie want is to turn USA into a socialist democratic country similar to Germany, Sweden or Denmark That is totally different from communism Yet I notice he conflates the two Similar to JP in a way There is no reason for USA not to go towards that type of Green You cannot call the countries I mentioned as "far left radical countries" Also the American empire in itself is not a big issue imo as long as it respects international law and tries to elevate the development of poorer countries That would be a Stage Green to Yellow American foreign policy Yet USA is not like that USA does dealings with brutal dictators and also removes democratic elected leaders whenever they go against USA USA foreign policy is basically "you are pro us or we remove you from power"

Actually I have seen these days some more discussions of him and I realize his politics views are extremly basic at least on some topics Basically "USA is good and they spread freedom and democracy" instead of "USA is a devil just like other big powers, maybe less devil but still devil" Very biased view imo Your analysis of USA is much better than his for eg as it is self-reflective Issue with Destiny is that he is fighting hard for USA not to move towards Green but is happier if it stays in Orange with some Green in it. He is openly against the Democratic Socialists which are the evolution of USA politics towards proper Green Therefore he is problematic imo, even if he was not a shameless Zionist I would still have big issues with him for wanting USA to not evolve towards Green. A green USA is a better USA as green is more evolved than Orange and will hopefully put an end to USA toxic foreign policy actions that are done not to progress the world but keep countries under USA control. Yes, it may weaken the American empire, but perhaps that is what is bound to happen by evolution

https://www.actualized.org/insights/the-tasmanian-genocide Post in Leo blog I saw The part: "Here's how colonialism works: We move into your land and start exploiting and abusing your people because we think we're superior, God's chosen people. You are outraged and have no choice but to fight back. We become outraged that you killed a few of our people. How dare you attack us, the civilized ones! We use this to smear your entire population as evil godless barbarians, leaving us no choice but to exterminate you in the name of civilization, otherwise our women and children would be in danger. Oh, and we just so happen to end up with all your land in the end. How fortune for us. But hey, you should not have been so evil. You should have let us rape you without squealing." Literally what Israel has done, is doing and will do to Palestine No difference So to @Leo Gura not only mankind WAS like this, it still is And most of the "developed" world supports it either directly or indirectly We have not evolved past that

The issue is taking land, not repelling an invasion Especially when the land theft is in the West Bank where there is no real existential threat nor October 7th attack It has been going on for many many years and it is done so slowly and carefully that you do not feel it until it is too late Boiled frog theory Also when you actually talk with people that are in favour or support this land grab, they usually use religion or God or the Bible as a reason for it As an atheist I cannot relate to this and hence am very critical. It seems like half the country is on board with this either directly or by voting for parties that are on board with this

I think half measures cause this A full measure would calm things down The only example they give is Gaza in 2005 but that was not a proper state, it was a half measure A full measure would be something similar to Kosovo or the states that emegered from the USSR after it collapsed I feel a proper Palestinian state would calm down the majority and the loud radical minority would either be eliminated from the internal pressure

I am sure if Palestine got a proper state and Lebanon got its land back, all sides would chill out and only the most radical elements would remain Which can be eliminated But most of the anger comes from lack of statehood Why is Israel so afraid of a Palestinian state? I am sure they can handle it in a war, the power difference is too big to worry