Karmadhi

@Vrubel The death toll says otherwise. The UN says otherwise. Why would I trust governments which are biased instead of unbiased entitles and numbers?

@Vrubel Both Hamas and IDF are monsters. They should be hanged for crimes agaisnt humanity. This is basic human justice sense.

Since most people use this thread I will write a comment here (I wrote it on another thread today) " You guys here that support Israel are really naive. The reason the death toll is so high, is not by fault but by design. Dahiya doctrine - Wikiwand I will quote: "The Dahiya doctrine, or Dahya doctrine, is a military strategy of asymmetric warfare, outlined by former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Chief of General Staff Gadi Eizenkot, which encompasses the destruction of the civilian infrastructure of regimes deemed to be hostile as a measure calculated to deny combatants the use of that infrastructure and endorses the employment of "disproportionate force" to secure that end. The doctrine is named after the Dahieh neighborhood of Beirut, where Hezbollah was headquartered during the 2006 Lebanon War, which were heavily damaged by the IDF" This is what they are doing in Gaza as a response to the Hamas attack. It is done to beat them so badly, to crush them so much that they will never dare to raise against Israel again. Basically to terrorize the entire population of Gaza into submission so every man knows if they dare to attack Israel, their entire family will be killed in response. This will make them think twice about doing so. I dont understand why is it so hard for you guys to accept it? It does make logical and strategical sense (although I think it is not effective). The Germans had a similar policy against Slavs partisan attacks during the second world war. They burn down villages close to where the Partisan attacks happened in response. This is not some new invention, it is textbook military strategy." I see. Their government is shit to be honest. Their own people hate them. I think when their leader dies they will be overthrown by a revolution because I think most Iranians are tired of them. Plenty of protests lately about it.

@Vrubel So by your logic, Hamas attack is justified since Gazas have been absolutely massacred historically by Israelis. 2500 civilians dead in 2014 alone. Many of Hamas fighters are orphans. By your logic they did a justifiable act by killing people that support the country that took their loved ones away. By killing people that voted for the governments who threw missles in their houses and killed their parents. Their rage is justified. This is your logic. And this is EXACTLY how they think. We are killing occupiers who killed our families. This is what fuels them to kill the civilians in Israel. YOUR sort of thinking. DISGUSTING. Unless this way of thinking ends the cycle of hatred will never end.

Iranians oppress their own people but not other countries or groups. I do not see Iran stealing land or invading anyone like Israel does.

@zazen The issue with Israelis is that they do not see themselves as oppressors and settlers. Unless they do, then they will always play the victim.

They also interviewed Jews in concentration camps saying "we are ok here", as propaganda movies. PragerU is pure horshit blue propaganda. I would not take it seriously. Also, is this about West Bank or Gaza? Because that is where the horrible things happen. They are poor because of Israel, so of course Israel is more desirable. When you become rich at expense of others, that is blood money.

War against childreen and women you meant? Because most dying are them. They killed civilians, which is horrible but nothing new. Google "massacres" you will see hundreds and hundreds of them through history. I dont know why the world lost its shit about this specific massacre. Serbians massacred 8000 in Bosnia for example. Just in this century you had dozens of massacres, some with higher death tolls. But of course when rich countries get massacred everyone looses their shit. Typical. Your language is pure propaganda. "Seal of humanity". Bruh go open a history book. They did textbook massacre stuff. Nothing new. So is Israeli of course. They do textbook terror bombing. However Israeli is not getting condemned for their textbook bullshit. I do agree that Israel is somewhat hold off by the international community but still it is getting a lot of free passes. You cannot say "way more casualties" when you have 40.000 tonnes of bombs dropped on an area the size of London in 1 month and a half.

You guys here that support Israel are really naive. The reason the death toll is so high, is not by fault but by design. Dahiya doctrine - Wikiwand I will quote: "The Dahiya doctrine, or Dahya doctrine, is a military strategy of asymmetric warfare, outlined by former Israel Defense Forces (IDF) Chief of General Staff Gadi Eizenkot, which encompasses the destruction of the civilian infrastructure of regimes deemed to be hostile as a measure calculated to deny combatants the use of that infrastructure and endorses the employment of "disproportionate force" to secure that end. The doctrine is named after the Dahieh neighborhood of Beirut, where Hezbollah was headquartered during the 2006 Lebanon War, which were heavily damaged by the IDF" This is what they are doing in Gaza as a response to the Hamas attack. It is done to beat them so badly, to crush them so much that they will never dare to raise against Israel again. Basically to terrorize the entire population of Gaza into submission so every man knows if they dare to attack Israel, their entire family will be killed in response. This will make them think twice about doing so. I dont understand why is it so hard for you guys to accept it? It does make logical and strategical sense (although I think it is not effective). The Germans had a similar policy against Slavs partisan attacks during the second world war. They burn down villages close to where the Partisan attacks happened in response. This is not some new invention, it is textbook military strategy.

The West is not a racist ethno state like Israel is. Israel is the most racist first world country in the world. The war has been ongoing for decades. Not clear who started what. Israel is also a terrorist government. At least the current one. Not much more developed than Hamas. UN and every non biased party says otherwise. I trust them more than a nation full of liars like Isarel is. And so does the rest of the world. Trusting Israel more than the UN or Red Cross is comical. There is some truth to that but if Israel wanted the death toll would be way lower regardless.

I love how Israel uses the "We are a democracy" to elevate themselves morally from the rest of the region. What are human rights good for if they dont apply to you if you are Palestinian? The Gulf countries have none of the things you wrote above yet many people from all over the world live there and they rarely immigrate. How come?

I am curious if Hamas teleported in Tel Aviv and was holding every school, hospital etc in Tel Aviv would Israel be ok to raze Tel Aviv to the ground and kill 13.000 Israeli civilians if it means taking out Hamas. You can tell they value Israeli babes far more than Palestinian babies. I do not expect equality but at least some sort of care.

If you were treated like Palestinians have been treated by Israel you would also become radical. When Jews had an uprising against the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto nobody was saying "those evil terrorists". I think you fundamentally underestimate how ruthless and oppresive Israel is to Palestinians. Do a bit of research.

He is as ruthless if not more than Putin. He does not value human life more than Putin does. He undermines democracy and rule of law for his personal power. He is very corrupt and had trials for corruption ongoing. He makes Israel weak, hated by the world and kills thousands of kids. Terrible leader.

A woman is not evil for fighting back against her rapist. However, if the woman s behavior's towards the rapist are the main reason that the person became the rapist in the first place then she is also to be blamed. The people killed per say are innocent and I feel bad for them but Israel s policies are the main reason why those people are dead. Israel is just as at fault here as Hamas is. And they do not accept any responsibility for this. They just blame Hamas when they are responsible for Hamas existing in the first place. They got attacked by the monster they themselves created. This is not to be overlooked. When the head of UN says that the attack of Hamas did not happen in a vacuum, instead of accepting their responsability and changing their policies towards Palestinians, they instead ban UN staff from entering and double down on the violence on the West Bank by killing like 150 innocent civilians. Shameless...

The IDF and Israeli government should also be cleansed by their racist animals like Ben Gavir and Netanyau. They are as toxic for Israel as Hamas is for Palestine. A war crime trial where they go to jail for life would be a good outcome from this.

70% dying are women and kids. Let that sink in. So you admit half dying are 100% innocent. How is this acceptable? When you are killing innocent people in the thousands like this maybe you should change tactics? Maybe Israeli leadership, the right wing in power see the kids as future terrorists and therefore "kill them before they grow" kind of mindset. Maybe they do not seem them as human? How does the mind of the IDF rationalize this? 40 kids died under Hamas. 4000 under IDF. All innocent. Yet more than 100:1 ratio for IDF.

Females are more sensitive to baby females being murdered in the thousands that Israel is doing than a couple dozens cases of rape of women that Hamas did. Scale also matters.

So all the civilians that died in Mauripol Ukraine are ok since they also told the officials there to surrender but they kept fighting?

But are not most of those civilians independent of Hamas attacks? 40% are kids. It is apples and oranges.

Israel got plenty of empathy after the attack but the way they dealt with it got all the greens angry and they became the most hated country in the world.

Dude do you hear what you say? What responsibility do 4000 childreen have? Are you blaming them also? If people like in Israel think like you, that killing kids is justice then I feel like that country is not more evolved than Nazi Germany. Hamas is responsible for terrorist attacks and they are being attacked. No issues here. However when the attack kills mostly innocent people then you fucked up.

@Vrubel 40% are kids so they are innocent. Are you also going to blame now kids for this? We had different morality back then. If you use old school morality system to justify IDF bullshit then also what Hamas did is fine because in the past that is how most wars were fought. Mongols used to make mountains with the heads of the people they killed. So justifying 1 side war crimes by picking a point in history where they were "ok" is shameless and manipulative. I can easily also do that to call Hamas actions "textbook military practice". But I do not. Because we live in 2023 where this things, as well as IDF actions are illegal and not acceptable. The issue is that you are killing people that have nothing to do with it. 40% are kids. By default innocent. Your attitude in equating those kids with Hamas is the attitude IDF does which justifies these barbarities in their minds. Disgusting.

Israeli military made a tweet saying we got a hamas guy when we bombed this refugee camp and the death toll of that refugee camp was around 50. I saw footage in my instagram at the aftermath of that refugee camp attack. Dead kids and people trying to get each other from the rubble. Horrible stuff. This is not rocket science. But if you want another source. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/31/dozens-killed-after-israeli-airstrikes-on-gaza-refugee-camp

Because it is common sense that it is wrong. Why condemn something when it is common sense? No sane person would support raping women. However Israel has done a lot of morally shady things so it is more of a target to be condemned. Also Hamas is not a country nor an official government, it is just seen as an ISIS type of thing and people do not feel the need to explicitly condemn them. Also Hamas has no international support from practically anyone. Israel does. IDF does not target civilians for the sake of targeting civilians but it does not care at all about the number of civilians including childreen that die if their attacks also kill Hamas people. They said "We killed 50 civilians (or 80 not sure) at a refugee camp and we got 1 Hamas guy. For them it is fine. So maybe they did not target those civilians explicitaly, but they simply do not care about them. They are seen as NPC in a video game. Their lives are worthless. If they actually cared then they would not pull the trigger. They would say: "If we get this guy using this bomb, dozens of civilian's and kids will die and that is not acceptable for us. We will figure out another way that will do less collateral damage". I mean 50 civilians to kill 1 soldier is dictator style thinking. Stalin the tyrant of the USSR said during the great purge "If we kill 50 innocent people to get 1 enemy of the state, that is a fine ratio". Let that sink in. I really really do not believe that Israel has no other choice here. They have one of the most advanced armies in the world and its population tends to be quite smart and educated. I am sure if they actually wanted they could have gotten the same number of Hamas dead with fewer civilian deaths. Surgical precise attacks is the answer. The fundamental issue is that I have noticed in interviews of Israeli important people that they feel like all people in Gaza share responsibility for the attack and therefore they deserve to be punished. They are seen as 1 with Hamas, and their deaths are payback for what Hamas did. Which is quite disgusting considering half dying are kids which are by default innocent. 1 example Look at how he reacts, you can tell by his voice he does not see Palestinians as more innocent than Hamas. He is just annoyed by them. Zero empathy. And to think this cu** was PM and was better than the current PM.