Karmadhi

Unless it comes from intentional organizations like WHO or UN then do not believe it. Israel and USA are not trustworthy sources on this conflict. They have a track record of lies.

I am not taking a position here. Just saying that there exists other perspective on this matter. I am not saying that these things DID NOT happen. However the 40 beheaded babies I think was confirmed to be false. The rest of things like IDF shooting at people at the festival is currently just a theory circulating with some proof attached to it. I am not claiming it is true or not. You Israelis make equally outrageous claims about IDF's "surgical bombing" so no need to get triggered.

I do not want to defend Hamas here, they are messed up. But I have seen more and more proof that many of the people at the festival were killed by Israeli friendly fire and some of the Israeli civilains were killed by the IDF due to them panicking. Also many of the brutality like the 40 beheaded babies turned out to be false. If these claims are true then things were not as bad as it first seemed.

@Leo Gura Can you explain to me why when Russia does similar things it gets 100x more hate from the West? I struggle to understand it. How come Palestine mostly gets support from non first world countries.

Israeli Zionism is one of the most toxic modern political ideologies, the Jewish version of radical Islam. It should be erased if there should ever be peace there. An inherently discriminatory ideology, it uses religion to showcase superiority the same way Nazism used race. Imagine thinking "we deserve to take your house because we are people chosen by God". The toxicity of this ideology is beyond outrageous.

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/12/10/world/middleeast/israel-qatar-money-prop-up-hamas.html Interesting article showing that Israel is responsible for Hamas more than people think.

@Leo Gura Thank you for your response

They have shot kids for throwing stones younger than 12 so it is not not surprising. Also more sources https://truthout.org/articles/israel-has-10000-palestinian-prisoners-and-faces-allegations-of-rampant-abuse/ Why not some hardcore leftists? Europe has them. Maybe you need them to balance the extreme right wing that is right now.

I saw that the senate blocked aid to Israel AND Ukraine due to the border issue. Do you think USA should fund Ukraine anymore?

It ended because Western Media and human right organization made a big deal about it and many reports putting pressure on Israel. But also I read a bit about Tzipi and she seems way more reasonable than the minister of justice recently who called palestinians "little snakes". So there is hope for Israel once this toxic racist current government gets replaced by more sensible people like Tzipi. A far left wing government would help Israel a lot regarding Palestine I think. The hippie peace loving type of people. I sent you many sources. And none of them are Arab sources. If you do not accept any of them it shows more about your biases than anything else. You can also do research yourself, i found plenty of other sources which I did not send here. So plenty of information about it. At least the other guy @Nivsch is objective enough to recognize such stuff happened.

I am saying Germany does not put childreen in cages, neither does Norway or Ireland

Sure there is. Same reasons blacks were not allowed to sit next to whites on buses in the past. The reason is racism and dehumanization of Palestinians. It is not rocket science.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-government-tortures-children-by-keeping-them-in-cages-human-rights-group-says-9032826.html https://www.pjcvt.org/blog/palestinian-kids-dont-belong-in-cages-support-hr-2407/ https://www.savethechildren.net/news/“treated-animals”-palestinian-children-face-inhumane-treatment-israeli-run-prisons "First world liberal democracy" my ass...

Considering this is the most posted threat (251 pages and counting) and we have here 5 or so Israelis discussing with dozens of people from different countries that are critical of Israel and almost no consensus shows how hopeless this situation is. Imagine if the people critical of Israel were not third parties like us but Palestinians, the people they actually have to negotiate with.

I never said it is as bad as the Jewish Ghettos during the Holocaust. But it is not how a first world liberal democracy treats people. It is quite old fashioned. This stuff is nothing new in history. It is all textbook stuff. The issue is that in Israel you have a 21st Century country that treats Palestine with old fashioned racist treatment. Of course it is no near as bad as the Jewish Ghettos, but that is a very low bar to set. Also Palestine did not put the Jews in those ghettos. They have less rights. Someone with a Palestinian passport living abroad cannot go to West Bank but a Belgian can. Imagine.. I know because I know people that could not go there because they could not enter Israel because of it. Talk about "equal treatment". Also their economy is way worse of partially because of Israel occupation (among other reasons). Hard to develop while being occupied. I think you tend to ignore that Israel is an occupying force on the region and kicked millions out. Shooting kids to practice your aim and laughing about it is not "alert". So a 7 year old with a stone the size of his small hand can seriously hurt a soldier??? You do realize they lack the strength. I am talking about kids, usually younger than 10 here, not grown adults. And I am not talking about just taking the kids into custody but putting them into a military trial (only country in world that does this), then jailing them for 6 months while they spend the night in a cage on the cold. It is extremally ruthless. I saw a documentary with a British reporter where this thing was happening (putting kids in cages to spend the night on the cold) in the past until human rights organizations forced Israel to stop doing it some years ago. Do you think first world liberal democracies in the west like Germany, Norway or Ireland would do such things? Imagine the outrage of the public. Meanwhile in Israel this was endorsed and nobody cared.

And then why are they so pro Israel biased? What do they gain from Israel? If neoliberals control the media why do they jerk off Israel like this? Israel is not a gigantic economy or anything. Something is fishy here...

Considering the insane pro Israeli bias that Western Media has had while they commit a genocide in real time, Kayne claims that Jews control the media do not seem so absurd anymore. Any sane person would denounce them instead of just going along with such atrocities.

I think we had a missunderstanding. I was referring to whether Jews when they arrived in Palestine during WW2 were treated as bad as Palestinians are treated in the West Bank through the last decades. And I gave examples of the treatment above. So I am talking about the way Jews in Palestine were treated between 1940 to 1947 or so. I asked because you rejected my claim that Jews were treated with open arm by Palestine between 1940 to 1947. My question was, was that treatment as bad as the stuff I wrote above?

Sure, but I do heavily feel Israel can do much better than Benjamin and Ben Gavir in government.

@Lila9 All of this happened BEFORE October 7th attack and I am not talking about Gaza here. I dont know what October 7th has to do with any of this. Very blue to me. Not red, they seem more of a nazi bullet to the head heartless type and little emotions while Hamas is more emotional, screaming and kills you with a sword. Nazis vs Mongolians. Both are bad of course. But that is my opinion.

Were they treated worse than Palestinians get treated by Israelis on the West Bank? By that I mean: Did they kill childreen for fun to test their aim and laugh about it? Did they abduct Jewish childreen and burn them alive? Did they kill people for no reason? Did they put kids in cages in jails for basically no reason? Did they put thousands of kids in jails? Did they destroy their homes and settle there? And before you say "these did not happen", you can find interntional reports saying so. Some of the stuff is on footage and I have seen it myself. Horrible stuff. That are some of the hundreds of atrocities Israelis does in West Bank If yes then I stand corrected.

That virus was created by Israel s policies, nothing else. Israel basically bullied someone for decades and now when they get hit back hard they start crying about it. Hamas is indeed a virus, but it is a Israeli created virus. Do you want me to send you the old videos of Benjamin saying we need Hamas in Gaza because it aids our own rule? Videos from some years ago. If you want I will try to find them for you.

Many chose to immigrate to Israel. And that was indeed wrong. They do it against Palestinians, people that welcomed them with open arms when their precious European friends were wiping them out. Palestinians treated Jews living there 1000x better than Europeans did for centuries yet the ones that had their land stolen and were oppressed/murdered were Palestinians. Talk about justice...

Do you know what raw survival is? It is when your enemy can take over your country and wipe out all your people. Do you really believe Hamas could have taken over Israel?

The 18.000 civilian dead shows otherwise. Ukraine war happening for 2 years and 10.000 civilians dead from 40 milion population. Here 2 months and 2x dead out of a population 20 times smaller. Apparently I found a more moral war