Karmadhi

What propaganda did I say? i just asked why you said what you said. Now that you gave actual proof I ll reply to it. So regarding Qatar/Turkey I would call affiliated/friendly with terrorist organizations rather than call them themselves terrorist countries. As long as they do not actually aid Hamas militarily or do similar actions themselves I cannot call them such. But that is just my opinion, I can understand that you would call them terrorists for just being friendly with Hamas.

I do not think Qatar, Turkey are terrorist organizations. Where is your proof for that? To me Israel uses same war crime prone tactics in Gaza that Russia uses in Ukraine (cutting electricity, water, fuel, bombing hospitals, bombing evacuation corridors etc, I would say the Russian Siege of Mauripol looked like a mini Gaza when I read about it). So I find it quite hypocritical for people to be critical of Russia while supporting Israel considering the human suffering in both quantity and methodology that they create in warfare is not so different. And to be clear, I do not see Russia as the demon the west sees it. But I heavily disagree with some of their policies, same with Iran, same with China, same with Israel, same with US.

I think a fundamental issue on this whole conflict is the deep sentiment that both sides think that the land that used to be the British Palestinian Mandate belongs to them. Jews think it is their holy land and therefore feel entitled to it, especially the current Israeli government while Palestinians think Israel stole it from them. Unless this is somewhat clarified with the respectable leading authorities from each group, this issue will never be solved. Like how can you make peace when Gazans say "you guys are thieves that stole our land and put us here" when Isarelis say "we kicked out all the Jews from Gaza and let you guys manage Gaza". Like according to Gazans all the areas around Gaza are Palestinian land, stolen from them while Israelis feel like they were super generous to even let Gaza exist without Jews in it. Total fucking mess. Only factual things here is: Hamas stole a lot of money and killed the opposition and focused on military instead of developing itself, Israel did not allow Gaza to have an airport, Gaza is mostly refugees kicked out since 1948, Gaza fires rockets toward Israel super often, Israel kills on average 20x more than get killed, Gaza supports Hamas and would like to see Israeli gone (some as becoming much smaller than it is, some as a political entity aka state, some as all Jews kicked, some as all Jews killed depending on how radical they are). Issue here fundamentally is that each side sees themselves as the victim and the generous one. Good luck solving this, I have given up. I just think this war is disgusting and want it to end asap and everyone involved with war crimes to face justice. I am honestly tired with Israel receiving insane diplomatic immunity from the West and not facing some consequences when they carelessly kill civilians without caring. Hamas did not receive any immunity, it got sanctioned and its leaders are wanted dead. So the consequences for each side's war crimes are not the same in my opinion.

Could you tell us some unbiased media sources on this issue? I try to post here BBC, CNN and New York Times (I sent yesterday a pretty disturbing New York Times study and tagged you) What would you consider as unbiased? I think we can agree Al Jazeera is somewhat biased. Although I noticed that both BBC and CNN did not broadcast the genocide court case of South Africa but they did broadcast the Israeli defense the next day. That makes me suspicious of them being not objective here. Usually you broadcast either both or either.

Well lets hope for that. From what I have seen so far nothing has been decided yet.

Netanyahu's Likud Ministers, Far-right MKs to Attend Israeli 'Gaza Resettlement' Conference - Israel News - Haaretz.com Israel’s far-right wants to move Palestinians out of Gaza. Its ideas are gaining attention | CNN There has been growing concern that part of Israeli politicians do not want them to go back.

Sure, here you go with actual evidence and not empty words. Visual Evidence Shows Israel Dropped 2,000-Pound Bombs Where It Ordered Gaza’s Civilians to Move for Safety - The New York Times (nytimes.com) Tell me what you think of this. Note: I do not know why links are not properly sent here but I think you can find the article if you search those words.

I am not saying that half of all soldiers go to jail. Ideally there is a chain of command and hierarchy, so the higher ups responsible go to jail for war crimes. Also those that displayed genocide language should be prosecuted too. You can also prosecute individual cases but as far as I know it usually works with higher ups. Similar way it happened in Serbia, Japan etc. You did not see half the Japanese or Serbian army go to trial for war crimes, it was the military generals, commanders, leaders etc. This will create a precedent that carelessly breaking international law and killing civilians unjustly is not tolerated anymore. International Military Tribunal for the Far East - Wikipedia One example.

The difference in our opinion is that you assume IDF is trying their best not to kill civilians and they are doing this whole thing under some good will where they care a lot about Palestinian civilians. I do not think they are doing this under good will nor do they care about civilians dying in Gaza. So even though a part of Palestinians may be affiliated with Hamas, Israel often treats them all as affiliated, when conducting their operations. And that I do not find acceptable which is why I am so critical of them.

To be clear, I think there is a part of Gazans that would kill Israeli civilians if they could. The issue is that we do not know how many of these Gazans are there so I do not support the idea putting them all in 1 basket and saying "all are guilty". Which is why I am against collective punishment. But I do agree that some citizens in Gaza do help/support Hamas so there is a link between the two. Issue is that it is quite hard to know who it is exactly. Gaza being so dense does not help with that either. So some are quite bloodthirsty and some are more moderate and would only kill if necessary. Ideally the ones that took part in killings (non Hamas Gazans) should be prosecuted for murder/rape etc. Hope it is more clear

The comment which you replied to had quite a part of it mentioned the 7.10 attack. What denial are you talking about?

Comparing Nazi motives is not the same. Jews did not kick Germans out of their home, take their land, murder them or deny them rights. It was actually Germans that did this to Jews (like most European countries) through centuries. So it is a false comparison. First of all regarding "celebrating Hamas attack". How would people know from the start they targeted civilians and raped, killed kids etc? Maybe I am wrong here but in our news for example, it did not give these details until a while after the attack. So my first impression was that people of Gaza broke out from their massive prison and started killing Israeli security and military personnel. I did not know they did the horrible stuff until some days later. Maybe the people in Gaza thought the same? It is quite fine with me if they celebrate IDF soldiers being attacked or the walls breaking down. Obviously celebrating that civilians and kids were killed, women raped etc is wrong. Secondly, can you really blame the children's? What makes people so mad at this war is that like 40% of deaths/injuries are children's. To me they are a third party, totally avoid of responsibility. A Norwegian study put the median age (not average) of the victims in Gaza to be 5 years old. This is why people and liberals/leftists are so angry at Israel. And blaming Hamas for all 12.000 dead children's is massive shameless scapegoat. I really doubt if Israel actually tried properly, those 12.000 would be far less. Just the notion that we will not bomb an apartment building housing dozens of people because we know a terrorist is currently there. That policy alone would save tons of children's. Best analogy I have seen on this: "If a school shooter forced himself into a shopping mall, using all the people that happen to be there as human shields, would it be ok to bomb the whole shopping mall"? Imagine if USA started doing this in America. People would totally loose their shit. I do not know why it is so hard for Israelis to accept that this policy is wrong? I mean it is not hard for people like me or Zazan to accept that Hamas targeting civilians was wrong and the people responsible should be punished. Do you really think if we magically found and gathered all Hamas people responsible for killing civilians, the world would pardon them? So where is the "Hamas love" that Pro Israel constantly say anytime we criticize Israelis war actions and policies. And before you say: "You seem to tolerate Hamas". It is not that we tolerate Hamas, it is that we think and see that the people dying on the response are NOT Hamas in majority. Therefore you are killing the wrong people. Hope its clear.

Firstly this is a war we all see daily on social media and the heavy stuff can create strong emotional responses. I have also done quite some research on other wars happening right now, like the one in Ukraine but this is far worse from what I have seen. Also my countries are kind of allies of Israel so it adds insult to the injury. I am sure if we saw WW2 live it would be another story but no modern social media back then. And although the Hamas attack was horrible, I have always expressed it. Firstly there is barely any brutal footage of it (just reading stuff is not the same as seeing it) and secondly I feel sorry for Gazans even before this war. I cannot help but understand why they lashed out the way they did. Therefore I am indeed biased somewhat to their suffering because to me it has been historically far greater than the other side.

I am open to correction except accepting that what Israel is doing at the moment is acceptable, defendable or justifiable. We will not agree on that. If I said other stuff which you disagreed I am very open to changing my stance, including historical contexts.

Not holding your breath and commiting war crimes to the point where half the world accuses you of genocide and even your firmest allies accuse you of indiscriminately killing civilians are independent variables.

Were the other two people that bad that Biden won so hardly? I am unaware of the detailed politics but I see that many Americans do not like Biden, he has lowest approval ratings so I was wondering. I wish Sanders could have run, way better than the rest.

At least 20 people were killed as they waited for aid near Gaza City on Thursday, according to the Hamas-run health ministry in Gaza. Another 150 were injured — dozens critically — when an Israeli military strike hit "thousands of people desperate to get humanitarian aid at the Kuwait roundabout in Gaza City," the health ministry said. Journalists at the scene said people were waiting for aid along a main road, with local reports describing multiple casualties amid shelling and gunfire. Ministry spokesperson Ashraf al-Qidra said that the number of dead was “likely to increase" as hospitals do not have the means to treat them, and Gaza's Civil Defense described the injuries as "unbelievable." From CNN Khan Younis: ‘Mass casualties’ as UN shelter struck amid intense fighting in Gaza | CNN Since people do not trust Arab sources, here you have some pretty horrible things happening in the last 24 hours, which can be found in CNN.

@Vrubel Posting about war crimes is Islamic vibes to you? Because most of the links and videos sent here are about that.

How do you know he is a terrorist? The fact that he was released after 40 days shows the evidence was not enough, otherwise he would either recieve a jail sentence or just shot. USA did some bad things at Guatalamo but firstly it was 25 years ago and secondly it was a huge scandal that recieved insane outrage from the American people and internationally. Meanwhile, here you are defending the same practices. What scares me is that you are a relatively moderate Israeli and you wish good for others and still you tend to rationalize this stuff , I do not want to image how Ben Gvir voters must be.

@kenway Where are you from? No need for personal attacks. Nivsch is the most sensible pro Israeli guy here.

Funny thing is that if Palestinians decide to murder these illegal settlers, they are called terrorists.

You remind me of those Russians saying Ukrainians bomb their own people to justify their war crimes. It is quite clear IDF is waging a war against Palestinian people and therefore they want them to suffer because they see them all as terrorists and animals. This much is clear now. I never heard Western countries do this sort of barbarism in 2024. Ever. This is basically how Russia treats Ukranians POW. More proof that Russia and Israeli militaries are on the same wavelength. And since you say "every culture has its dark places", you can say Hamas is the "dark place" of Palestinian culture.

What do you mean? He was detained for 40 days, clearly showing he is not a terrorist and did not kill Jews. If they had concerete proof he was he would have either been shot or sent to jail. Meanwhile he was released. Showing that there was no concerete evidence linking him to the attacks. Therefore he was innocent (you are innocent unless proven guilty) and was treated in this way. You can see it on his eyes and how he is shaking the hell he went through. What is there to discuss? There was footage of them being naked and stuff. This is medieval barbaric stuff. Reminds me of how Mongols shit. Basically they have reached Hamas level brutality. Even Hamas did not treat their POW like this. I never heard of any hostage treated like this.

Palestinian shares horrifying memories after 40 days of Israeli captivity (youtube.com) How can a first world country treat other humans like this? This is beyond anything I have ever seen. This level of brutality towards innocent people. Even Hamas treated their hostages far better than this. This is reaching Nazi level shit honestly. I am ashamed the countries where i live have not canceled Israel for this level of devilry. @Nivsch How can you not feel angry when you see this? Being critical of your country when they do devilry is a pillar of democracy.

How is that cu** not in jail for complicity in war crimes is really beyond me...