Karmadhi

Do you think Russia will crush Ukraine too as the more powerful party? And how would you suggest Palestinian case get resolved realistically

I never claimed that you personally as Leo demonize China When I said China is demonized or cherry picked, i meant to the WEST and USA Not to Leo Totally different I know you do not judge and all

When you analyze moral development you do not only analyze the current situation but also what would happen in another scenario You say "Israel is not crashing civilian planes" therefore they are more morally developed I do agree with you that crashing civilian planes is as bad as it gets I will not justify it However, I have a question for you Would Israel not resort to such tactics if they were stripped out of their power and were the underdog They have done it in the past with bombing hotels There is a historical precedent So what makes us think that Israel is not beyond this but simply does not do it because they do not need to A true moral developed society would say "this is wrong and we will not do it" even if they were in a weaker position What makes you think Israel would have such a thinking?

To all of you saying "it is necessary to hijack planes" Ask yourself this Black people in USA were more oppressed than probably any Arab is by the West For centuries Yet, they did not do on a massive scale such type of attacks Does terrorism even work?

I think the fundamental issue we leftists here in this forumn have Leo after analying all the comments is that we fundamentally disagree with what "development" is To us, development is "moral development", not "material development" So, a more developed person in your example would be "stealing is wrong i cannot do it" instead of "i do not need to steal because I have a steady income" The material situation is irrelevant in the way we see things A rich greedy person is less developed to us than a poor non developed person Unless this topic is addressed the discussions here will never end When it comes to countries, we put more importance on moral development than technological development A technologically powerful nation with strong burocracy is "worse" to us than a peaceful tribe Nazi Germany to us is "worse" than a local peaceful Hindu village in 1940s That is the core difference Which is what you call moralizing I guess.

Have you been? Where did you go? Curious

People say that because we fear you may be influenced by the very biased media and social environement in the US Unless you meet people from other parts of the world or travel there it can cause biases I think that is why Nobody here is saying that China is a perfect flawless country I am sure they steal some IP addresses for example But is that enough to demonize China so much when you have so many countries in the world doing messed up stuff? We feel China is being cherry picked here

@Nivsch Do you have to do pull ups while an officer yells at you and insults you 24/7 or is that only in American movies?

Do you get paid as a solider? How does it work with university studies and schedules How were the living conditions? Was it comfy or it is designed for you to toughen up and therefore more hardcore? I assume you go after high school So it is normal for someone to be a soldier for 1-2 years then start studying? Geniounly curious as my country has no mandatory service so I never understood the logistics of it.

Actually Leo I disagree with you here Reason Israel had so much support historically is because the majority of the population was boomers who grew up with the Holocaust and the idea that Israel is David against the massive evil arab countries Basically they viewed Israel as the underdog Meanwhile, the current generation, has grown up watching the atrocities on Gaza and Israel is generally viewed as the Goliath, as the bully That is a fundemental change in perception Also, USA and Western Europe is starting to go to Stage Green, which is quite hostile to Israel's actions In the past it was mostly Blue and Orange Every left wing party in Europe, including central left and DSA in USA are critical of Israel aid Ofc they wont sanction Israel like Russia but will put enough pressure for some change There have been polls about Israel and the results are shocking https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/06/04/most-people-across-36-countries-have-negative-views-of-israel-and-little-confidence-in-netanyahu/ This was not the case even 5 years ago In USA Israel had double digit net support Today is double digit negative support And with the way they have chosen not to self-reflect at all but only lash out it will not go away anytime soon A Pro Israel democrat in USA now is more of a minus than a plus in many states If you believe voter opinion is irrelevant, well then democracy is dead basically I choose to believe major public opinion can somewhat affect policy of governments Otherwise why bother voting at all Lastly, in the past you did not have social media like today You had only mainstream medias and no alternative medias Big ass reason there have been so many marches about Gaza is because of the awful footage people saw on social media coming from there Footage that would not have appeared without social media How come there is a big generational divide on this issue? It is not random. Now you may say, Israel can be done with their project within 10 years and nothing major will change in 10 years. That is a decent argument But I do not see Israel getting away with their devilry in the long run Trump is the last serious pro Israel USA president Everyone after, especially democrat will not give such blank cheques Israel got lucky both Biden and Trump were devoted hardcore zionists.

Hello I wanted to quickly mention to you a bit of my journey and also the reasoning for this post I come from a middle income country in Eastern/Southern Europe and have been living in Western Europe for more than 9 years now I am in my late 20s and I like learning and am into self improvement When I first found Leo's Youtube Channel it was right during Covid period, I was in my early 20s It really resonated with me, all his work Especially the topics about epistemic work and spiral dynamics (although I enjoyed all of his work except the metaphysic topics which I found too advanced) At the time I was pretty solid Orange with some Green and Blue In time, I wanted to quickly race to stage Green and finally Yellow I saw it as a video game where you level up and was very motivated In time after a list of personal achivements, what happened was the beginning of evolving towards Green Hanging out with green friends, living in a very green city and also some solid psychadelic trips made me more Green Success seemed less important and things like peace and enjoying small things mattered more Especially travelling which became a big hobby It was not without challenges as I had quite some work to do, especially when it came to dating and gender topics. I have to admit, I fell to some extent for Tate stuff (although I could always tell it was fishy) and was into some parts of the Red Pill when I started the journey to Green. It had to be outgrew. When it come to politics, I noticed I started becoming more and more into a SJW Not a radical one, but for sure quite solid leftist I was always a leftie, but still had a pretty centrist Eurocentric liberal worldview where x country good and y bad With time, this started to fade away and things like social justice, interntional law and basic human decency became the cornerstone of how I judged matters when it came to politics Pragmatism was replaced by Idealism Some may call it naive, some may call it part of conscientious progress The point is that I can feel it is somewhat limited Leo has personally scolded me here a few times about it Not to mention i feel it does not make me very happy to have such views while I see so much of what I personally view as evil Therefore, i wanted to ask here how I can become more Yellow, more neutral Grow into a more balanced approach Or am I too young and should chill in solid green for years before starting to aspire the Yellow leap? Going to Green from Orange was different journey because I already live in a pretty green city and could interact with green people. But when it comes to Yellow, I feel quite alone. I cannot even sometimes tell Yellow from Orange They both seem as pragmatic, ruthless and insensitive to me sometimes. I would say I have been into Green for 2 years now (give or take) What do you think? I am asking here for advice but also to share my journey since I am quite active here and I feel many of the people that use this sub-group know me by now

Because they get demonized to no end by Western mainstream medias I notice so much hostility that is not shared for much worse regimes out there

Well to be fair that is quite telling There are 2 main groups on the casues of the war The first is the Mearshimer group that basically says Russia invaded Ukraine because of NATO and it involves Russia s security concerns The second group which is the liberal establishment says that Putin wants to restore USSR and he is an imperialist who wants land and to subjegate others. He did not invade Ukraine because of security but to basically restore USSR. Some call people pro Russia if they say Russia invaded Ukraine because of security concerns The hardcore centrists

To be fair I never heard him say that but I would not be suprised if he did The place where i am coming from is that Hamas is not the real Pali governemnt but more of a radical wing that has hijacked the movement To me the real Palestinian worldview and governance is more with the moderate Fatah, Abbas and Barghouti especially Piers Morgan recently interviewed his son and I doubt he would bother if Barghouti was a genocidal maniac like some Hamas people may be I feel people use Hamas to represent Palestinians while using more moderate Israelis to represent Israelis Which I think is not accurate I do also fall in that camp sometimes by using Smotrich as the pinnacle of Israel I correct myself on that To take the most extreme elements of 1 group and compare it with moderate elements of another group is not accurate Either you take extremes for both or moderates for both Smotrich and Ben Gvir are not much better than Haniye. Hanniye is worse than Benny Ganz. Benny Ganz or Bibi is better than Abbas or Baroughti? I do not know

Ok noted Thank you for the feedback I will try to reflect more on some things I say here I am concisious of coming with a left anti hierarchy anti hegemony agenda But I feel like it is better than the current status quo we have I really feel like it I may need years to outgrow it I outgrew Orange years ago when I discovered your work. It took over 6 years of work to properly go from Orange to Green. But needs time and a lot of reflection

From what I saw Sinwar was not the political and overall leader of Hamas but more the top military guy So equivalence with Bibi is not accurate I think Better equivalnce would be Abbas and Ismail Haniyeh Sinwar was more of a fighter than a political leader

I do understand, i just find the reasoning used silly once I understand it (not yours ofc but the ones doing it) Similar to how you find religious dogmatism silly even though you understand it I am critizing it from above not below as you say often in your work. I am not native English so perhaps the way I write here may come off as arrogant or immature I apologise in that case I am 28 year old, still learning to do

Comparing stealing some IPs with literally destroying countries and killing millions is a very silly comparison I would much rather have China steal my life work than have my house and people I know be killed in an American drone strike

Biden, Bernie Sanders surely align perfectly with Smotrich value wise Bernie with Bibi too

Exactly

Why are they so shameless?

Using your logic Russia invasion of Ukraine is justified since it is a security issue there too

It is not about values, it is about power. USA wants to be number 1 and they will shamelessly demonize any entity that also wants to be number 1 Reason Europe is not demonized is because until recently they were fine with being USA vassal and letting them be number 1 If China became USA vassal, the demonization would stop It is shameless power games, not grounded in truth. "Political alliances are formed based on alignment of values. That's also why America supports Israel." A very interesting way of saying their lobbies buy and blackmail USA politicans

Why everyone makes such a big deal out of this, I do not get it It is not like China is invading countries and killing people in the hundreds of thousnads like USA does Stealing some patents is no near as bad They lifted 800 million out of extreme poverty and have greatly improved their country living standards It is not like they use what they steal to wreck havock on the world If i made an invention and someone stole it to save their starving family, I would not hold a grudge against them.

Difference is historical context which you always convienently ignore Russia and Russians people in Russia were not really oppressed by Ukraine They were a soverign state and their freedoms, dignity and rights were not supressed by Ukraine Palestinians in Gaza were living under a brutal sige, stateless, being bombed at will and Israel even put them on a diet by restricting the amount of calories they could get. Many of them had relatives killed in previous inumane actions like the 2014 or 2008 war No such thing in Russia, Ukraine didnt bomb 2000 Russian civilians in Russia Hence Russia has no real reason to hate Ukraine Palestinians have legit reasons to hate Israel So the situations are totally different Until you understand that Israel was much more inhuman to Palestinians, especially in Gaza prior to October 7th than the other way around you will forever be stuck in biases