Karmadhi

@Vrubel I sent a clip of Israelis celebrating the murder of a Palestinian child before this war yet you ignore it. Seems you only seem to care when Palestinians celebrate the murder of Israeli civilians. Self biased at its finest.

I am not a pro Russian supporter. I support Ukraine and I think what Russia is doing is wrong. However I do not like the naive idea that "Ukraine will win and take all its land back", especially in this long atriction war so they should try to do a peace deal and cut their looses now. I am looking at this from Ukraine's interest. Russia would loose from a peace deal now because they are on their way on annexing more land. Ukraine would win as it would stop the taking of land. But their overly nationalistic government is pushing for "absolute victory" which is quite toxic in the current situation where they barely have any more aid and running out of men. I find it disturbing that just telling Ukraine to cut their looses makes you "pro russian". Ironically being Pro Russian you should want the war to go on since it will mean Russia will take more land from Ukraine. You need to be pragmatic about things. Futile resistance will only get you killed. Ukraine lived for decades under the USSR without much resistance. They are not new to this thing. Being dead is worse than living under Russia. You sent an article about Gaza. I am talking about Ukraine civilian deaths here. https://ukraine.un.org/en/253322-civilian-deaths-ukraine-war-top-10000-un-says Meanwhile 10 times more soldiers have died. Mauripol has no clear death toll but there was an independent study which I think is the most accurate and it put it at around 8000. https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/more-than-8000-killed-during-2022-mariupol-siege-human-rights-watch-2024-02-08/ I am not very informed on that. Maybe you are right. But I did read they did some crimes. https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2014/09/ukraine-must-stop-ongoing-abuses-and-war-crimes-pro-ukrainian-volunteer-forces/

I mean it is my right to say that I do not like Israel and I want it out of the "civilized world" group of countries. The way they act in Gaza shows their level of development when it comes to war and tactics they use is not higher than Russia. Genocide commiters is not something I want Western countries to ally themselves with.

@Heaven I mean they bombed their embassy totally unprovoked in Syria, which is basically Iranian territory. A clear violation of international law. I do not like Iran to be honest but Israel totally acted like a bully here. So no complaints now. Now they will go cry to daddy USA. Shameless.

Iran has the right to defend itself Should not have bombed illegally their embassy on a soveirgn country unprovoked. They literally asked for it hardcore this time.

When I was hoping that country would be abandoned and boycotted by the world, this happens "He cant keep getting away with it", in Jesse voice.

That was like 90 years ago. Germany did same to Ukraine if not worse. And that was Stalin who was a Georgian dictator. Actually there was a small scale war there for 10 years and Ukraine did bomb civilians on some occasions and did some atrocities here and there via Azof Briagate. It is not just for language. It is just that Russia overhyped this a lot to gain support for the war. Yes definitely ethnic cleansing. However, I noticed it is usually to Ukranian activists rather than normal Ukrainians. If you do not cause trouble to the new Russian management they leave you alone. Proper ethnic cleansing is based on ethnicity, here it seems to be more based on behavior which is less bad (but still bad). Same as Israel and most of the West for funding their bullshit. The West is not better than BRICS when it comes to war crime tolerance when it involves an ally of theirs. Issue I have with Ukraine war is that the civilian death toll seems very low to me relative to the military deaths, population size and time frame of the war. So far I see 11.000 civilians have reported to be dead from the war and it is estimated close to 100.000 soliders. That is a very good ratio actually for war. Especially considering it involves Russia and has been going on for 2 years on a country with a huge population. When this war started I expected honestly the civilian death toll to be at least 100.000 at this point, 10.000 is remarkably low. Hence "genocide" is a ridicioulous term. In comparison in Gaza you have 2 to 3 times the civilian death toll in a country with 20 times less people and 1/4 of the time frame. In Ukraine if you adjust it, the civilian death toll would have been around 400.000. Meanwhile it is 10.000 to 15.000 .

Most are soldiers and more than half are Russian soldiers. In Ukraine you have around 11.000 confirmed civilian deaths and around 100.000 or so soldiers estimated dead. How can it be genocide when 10 times more soldiers have died? That is standard war and it actually a good ratio. In genocides you have far more civilians dying than soldiers.

Point is that Israel gets a lot more leefway for doing similar devilry to Hamas. No country wants to associate themselves with Hamas (except Iran) meanwhile tons of stage green countries are allies of Israel. This is what I meant. If Israel wants to basically mass murder civilians like Hamas did then it should get the same treatment as Hamas. Which would be "We do not want to be associated with you unless you change your ways".

I think it has been proven as a lie, at least the 40 ones. Some BBC reported came up with it or something and it became viral but it was never proved on record.

Iran has the right to defend itself

You can use the same argument for Palestine. Israel barbarity regresses them to what we see Hamas do. How come Hamas is a terrorist organization while the IDF is not even though both seem to be by product of violent attacks. Seems like double standards to me to be honest. And if you actually research the conflict a bit, they always been very stage blue when it comes to dealing with Palestine.

@Vrubel @Nivsch By the say, since you say the people in Gaza are messed up for celebrating October 7th. Look what I encountered https://www.tiktok.com/@hasanalsadi1/video/7357323563847666977 Seems to me exactly like October 7th celebration. These orthodox Jews seems just as barbaric as Hamas here

https://www.tiktok.com/@sy.hus/video/7351026964825672992 I dont know about you guys but this does not seem like an advanced liberal society to me. More like a fascist state that bullies kids because they can. I wonder if most Israelis are like this when they join the IDF. Smacking kids around, very honorable for a soldier to do... And to think this is in the West Bank. Before you go "It is necessary for the security to prevent terrorist attacks blla blla". It is not the fact that the kid got checked. It is the whole manner how he got checked, the treatment he got. Everyone gets checked in the airport for example at the security place but I do not recall people getting smacked around while doing so. It is downright child abuse. That is the issue here.

There is 1 thing I honestly cannot understand here. Israel kills THOUSANDS of Gazans through the years and when Gazans celebrate their suffering in their strike back it is seen as anti christ behavior in your eyes. But when Israel celebrates Gazans suffering, from their own strike back, it is seen as ok. I dont get the logic here. To help you, I wrote a comment from the POV of a October 7th Supporter that I personally know so you can gain insight into how they think if it seems too alien. "I spoke with a friend about why he celebrated on that attack. He is Arab pro Palestine. He celebrated because he said "they finally took their land back, Israeli thiefs fled like cowards and they killed soldiers". When I asked him about civilians dead he said "they did not target them. Muslims dont kill civilians". That is how they see that attack. Whether you agree with that perception or not, another story. If you see it that way of course you would celebrate. Killing soldiers of the enemy and taking land back is a valid course for celebration. In most of their minds that is all that happened. Therefore, the massive celebrations even in Europe and USA. To be honest if they just killed 1200 soliders and no civilians I would not condemn it (but not celebrate because I do not see Israel as my enemy, just devils)". So basically denial. Same as many Israelis about what is going on there. Same mechanics.

The post is proapganda showing old data before 2023. It deserves a lash out. This was addressed to the opener. But yeah, sorry. I will hide it.

I spoke with a friend about why he celebrated on that attack. He is Arab pro Palestine. He celebrated because he said "they finally took their land back, Israeli thiefs fled like cowards and they killed soldiers". When I asked him about civilians dead he said "they did not target them. Muslims dont kill civilians". That is how they see that attack. Whether you agree with that perception or not, another story. If you see it that way of course you would celebrate. Killing soldiers of the enemy and taking land back is a valid course for celebration. In most of their minds that is all that happened. Therefore, the massive celebrations even in Europe and USA. To be honest if they just killed 1200 soliders and no civilians I would not condemn it (but not celebrate because I do not see Israel as my enemy, just devils). But also 800 civilians in a war is normal. It always happens. It is when the death toll gets in the tens of thousands that you can say things are getting bad. Especially for such a small country. If Hamas killed 30.000 Israeli civilians people would be looking at this war differently.

Why dont you try to understand them instead of just virtue signaling? Holomodor was done 80 years ago, things move on. When the Nazis invaded USSR, Holomodor was still fresh and you know what Ukranians did? They openly sided with the Nazis and massacred Russians and even close to 100.000 Poles. They also actively took place in the Holocaust and organized massive polgroms agaisnt Jews. Because it was thought that Holomodor was caused by Jewish Soviets. So when they actually went through real shit they became animals. I am not picking on them per say here. Everyone would become one under the certain conditions. It is just that modern Ukraine is an independent country that did not have any hardships like Gaza did so ofc they will act far more civilized than Hamas. In Gaza most families have people that were killed by Israel. In Ukraine it was not the case until 2022. Crimea did not impact most Ukranians. And Ukraine is poor because firstly it is corrupt as fuck and run by oligarchs. Their politicans suck. They got themselves to blame for their poverty, nobody else. 30 years of independence is enough to get your shit together. Even after 2014 revolution they still remained very corrupt. Still are. Abusing money etc. Obviously. Why should they hate Russia that much (before 2022). I have read countelss comments say that they view this as Russian people war and not just Putin war. They say Russians support the war at large and Russia as a country should pay. And from what I have seen many Russians do support the war indeed so they are not totally wrong here. But they are not more virtous that Palestinians when they actually go through shit. It is human nature. I am not making a case of Ukraine here per say. Just brough it up since only there you seem to have human compassion towards childreen. Any population would have done what Gazans did if they went through similar stuff. It is just that the world is so comfortable (including Ukraine) that that need is never brough up. Study history and see how harsh revolts and uprisings were to understand the human capacity for violence if misstreated enough.

So you are saying we do not really know what is going on there since people cannot go there. Therefore you do not know whether there is genocide or not. It may be or may not.

@Vrubel 1. I am talking about childreen here. 5 year olds. They did not kill anyone, nor hide behind anyone and are too young to even understand what is going on. They also did not elect Hamas. Yet you seem too cold about their deaths while crying about Ukranian kids dying (although 30 times less in scale). You basically went on a rant about how bad Hamas is yet my comment was about childreen, not their parents. 2. Of course Ukranians will be way more chill. They were not raised on a prison neither did they suffer under Russia. Ukraine has been an independent state since 1991 and was treated fairly well under USSR by Russia after Stalin's death (Nikita for example was Ukranian). Most young Ukranians have no reason to hate Russians per say. Meanwhile Gazans have been killed in the thousands in the last 10 years alone (over 2000 in 2014 alone). You seem to fail to understand the significance between your brother being bombed in his house. Considering Gazans have huge families even 1000 civilian deaths (like in 2014) affect tens of thousands of people. I am starting to see Ukranians support bombing of Russian cities and even were happy about the terrorist attacks in Moscow so the hatred is starting to boil up now. However it is still a 2 year war, this is a 75 year old conflict. Hamas is basically the far right wing armed forces of Gaza which due to the conditions has grown a lot. Ukraine due to them living fairly comfortable lives and no real reason to hate Russia hardcore (until 2022) did not have a hardcore right wing military. However, I have read that they had this Azof Brigate composed of right wing fascists which did war crimes in the past. They are mini Hamas in a way but less cruel and smaller. 3. How exactly will Hamas fight in the open field? Unlike Ukraine, Gaza is super super small, they have no air defense nor tanks etc. Ukraine has all the West support, millions of men and tons of empty land for a normal warfare. I dont like tunnel warfare but given Gaza size and density you cannot really fight there "like men" as you say. 4. How do you know how many were cheering on October 7th? How do you know whether those people were aware of Hamas atrocities? You probably just saw some clips on Tik Tok and now say "they are all happy about it". I have also seen countless clips of Israelis cheering on about Gaza being bombed even before this attack so it goes both ways. And considering Israelis are rich boys that never lost anyone from war (given the low number of civilain deaths in general historically) then how do you justify that?

What genocide? Show me some numbers to prove that absurd claim.

13.000 people dead in 1 year compared to 35.000 in Gaza in 6 months. Not to mention that Sudan is way bigger population. If you consider that genocide than Gaza is giga genocide. Do some research before spreading your propaganda here. And intentionally deciding to bomb people with AI when they are home which results in their whole families dying is not "consequence of war", it is mass murder. Everyone involved with it should be shot.

@Vrubel There is definetly a deep dehumanization of Palestinians in Israel. You yourself show it here with your total disregard of 13.000 dead Palestinian childreen while only focusing on 50 Israeli childreen. But ok, perhaps you can say that "my country people's are more important than others", fair. But however you seem to be very disturbed with 600 dead Ukranian childreen and you are not Ukranian. Hence to me it seems that you do not care about Palestinians specifically. I read your comments when the War in Ukraine started and you seemed very SJW like regarding it and even called Leo too cold on Ukranian suffering. Meanwhile when Gazans suffer 100x more you tend to be the one that is too cold about it. Why so?

Yes that is true. However for some reason when it comes specifically to Palestinians they seem to revert to stage blue level of thinking which leads to horrible abuses. In other matters it is definitely orange to green society. Like even secular Jews seem to have a blue attitude towards Palestine often which i find disturbing. I say this because like 80% of them support the horrible crimes in Gaza. Genocide or not, any sensible human would say this has to stop. And for the hostages, but for THOSE people's sakes that are suffering there. For the childreen. "All Gazans support Hamas" tends to be the thinking in Israel at the moment which is as blue as it gets on a frequency. And why are not these addressed? If they been going on for years now. That is what I meant by my comment. I am happy you acknowledge this is a thing, it is very unbiased for you to say this. However, I fear that after the october attacks that attitude has expanded to moderates as well. And as I said in a previous comment it does not matter as much as ur typical soldier attitude as much as the high command people's attitude. Soldiers follow orders. If the high command has the right wing attitude you say, it will result on horrible crimes. But I seen countless videos of IDF soliders boasting about destroying houses, stealing women's clothes, saying "we killed 10 kids today, it was a good day" and other horrible comments. Like dozens of such videos. Then why did the Israeli government aid Hamas when they are the main group that does these attacks. I saw clips of the PM saying he used them as a tool to divide Palestinians. How is this helping Palestinians go towards a more peaceful which will also make Israelis safer? This is just adding fuel to the fire instead of actually solving the issue. Why are not people angry about this back in Israel?

@Nivsch Do you think Israel should go through a major change in policy and education just like Gaza probably will? I feel like they need to abolish Zionism, at least hardcore one and become a secular state and see Palestinians as equal instead of human animals. To me Zionism is the root of all evil when it comes to Israel. I see it as 21st century version of Nazism and is destroying Israel. If you can explain me how is Zionism healthy or helpful would appreciate.