Karmadhi

They illegally occupy it and terrorize it through settlers I said there are elements of Gazans that are Red and those are the ones you are talking about. I do not think they are a majority. The election was 20 years ago and basically everyone under 38 was not eligble to vote. That is like 60% or more of the population there. Therefore, I cannot take it into account. It is another generatation. If you did a poll of the current Gaza population that voted for Hamas it is probably less than 30% considering you also had almost half voting for the more moderate Fatah party which is stage blue imo.

What do you base that on? Or maybe we have different views of Stage Red To me Stage Red would be something like Mongols or the Internahwme during the Rwandan Genocide Basically a group of people that chop you into pieces, burn you alive for fun etc I do not see Gazans in general be like that For example Ben Gvir wanted to surround a prison for Palestinians with Crocodiles That is how a stage red mind thinks, it is gory, graphic, vulgar and flashy in violence A stage blue would be more like a bullet to the head type of killing. I am sure you have some which are very bloodthirsty in Gaza but I have not seen proof of the majority of the population being like that A few thousand celebrating out of 2.2 millions on dead Israeli bodis (which is awful) can be indeed stage red behaviour but I did not see most of Gaza do so Note: I am not saying most Isarelis are stage Red either, to me the center of gravity of that country is mostly Blue with some degrees of Orange and even Green. However their blueness is extremly toxic. Stage Blue can be very very bad, just because you are blue does not mean you are not genocidal psychopath Most Nazis were Blue "Also to say that Israel isn’t a democracy showing how delusional you are on this topic." To be fair I also include the West Bank there since there is the 2 tier legal system and illegal occupation and settlements If we talk about Israel proper I would call it a democracy (not liberal but democratic) However Israel goes beyond proper Israel so if I include those it is not democratic

If caring about human rights and international law is a bias then yes i am biased. To me those are more important than how technology advanced or democratic a society is (and israel is not a real democracy imo). To me if a country is genocidal or supports things like mass murder, ethnic cleansing or rape it is a not developed country regardless of what tech they use. humanity is most important thing when determining development If that makes me biased then ok

If I was not mindful I would not have asked you this "I am really curious to understand how you come to that conclusion. What constitutes development to you? Because to me it is linked mostly with moral development, not technological development" I was not being sarcastic, I was geniounly interested in understanding your perspective on it

I think Leo perfectly explained it on a previous post. Destiny is a just shameless pro American than believes TRUTH is being pro West and pro USA. He fails to see the devilry of USA and basically every entity that is pro West and pro USA is good Which is why he supports Ukraine and Israel which are totally incompatible in any paradigm except that of an American unconditional dick rider Or he is getting paid by Israel which someone here said that Norman Finklestein was confident of But I have not seen any proof of that personally. Adopting an entire worldview and pushing for it despite getting massive hate just because Hasan had it? Sounds a little extreme no? To be fair I am not informed on their relationships to make that assessment But it would be extremly childish to basically pick a side just because someone I dont like picked the other side

You realize how racist that sounds? (this one: " I think for him it's simple: Palestinian = backwards religious lunatics and terrorists. I think many people look at the issue as one of backwards Muslims vs civilized Israelis, and side with civilized Israelis ") "Israeli IS more developed than Palestine" I am really curious to understand how you come to that conclusion. What constitutes development to you? Because to me it is linked mostly with moral development, not technological development. "There is a xenophobic aspect to this as well. Muslims are just more alien to the West than Jews. Basically, people are simple-mindedly picking the less alien side." This is like 90% of the true reason, just good old racism and xenophobia and the medias are a huge factor of that They are still traumatized from 9/11 25 years after which clouds their judgement

Guys I have not been following this conflcit for weeks Can sometime give me a TL DR what is going on and what are peace chances?

What is wrong with it? America is a nation of all religions He is no radical religious so... What is interesting is that if I said this about other religions I would be rightfully be called out as bigot Yet when it comes to America and Islam, the bigotry is heavily normalized America is a melting pot, it is not a Christian nation Get used to it!

He is semi-Green Bernie, Mandani, AOC and Abdul are proper Green

@Husseinisdoingfine I was watching it literally while logging in to write a comment Jeez Destiny is such a scumbag, I cannot even stand him anymore I am starting to believe he is a sociopath at this point, especially if he is not getting paid The amount of cognitive dissonance, biases, double standards and gaslighting is unreal, a case to be studied for Actualized.org community I would give him a pass if he was Isareli considering the amount of brainwashing that goes on there but to be like this as an American especially non Evangelican one is truly crazy. I think we should stop giving him credit and put him on the same box as Ben Shapiro He is not more evolved Stop promoting him as a beacon of nuance and insight. He is toxic stage orange garbage.

That I believe would for sure stop the conflict But it would not stop the insane hatred and animosity Lets look for example Germany and Poland Germany during WW2, did far worse to Poland than Israel has done to Palestinians They muredered close to 16% of its population, razed their capital to the ground (most destroyed major city in modern history perhaps, on par or even worse than Gaza) and basically had a genocidal policy towards them Yet today there seems to be little to no animosity How come? Well, Germany faced justice via the Nurenberg trials (for example Hans Frank who was the Nazi overseer of Poland was hanged) Additionally Germany apologized, reformed and even paid reperations (via EU grants) Israel has to do the same, if there is any chance of peace There needs to be trials for Israeli war criminals, extremism Zionism needs to be removed from the society and apologies need to be made Only then will the two nations be at true peace One can argue that Hamas leaders responsible for war crimes against Israel should face justice too, but the thing is they did. They are basically all killed now. Israel thirst for revenge and justice towards those that murdered its civilians has been satisfied. But perhaps that is too utopic Perhaps a situation where there is no conflict, no oppresion but also massive resentment is the best we can wish for To most, that would be good enough.

You praised him as a "beast" some time ago and also said he had a good general output on the whole thing He may be ideological but he does a good job of exposing Israel war crimes since he reads a lot of reports and summarizes them Also, who would you recommend to us instead?

@Nivsch https://www.euronews.com/2026/08/17/ben-gvir-calls-for-killing-of-30-to-40-palestinians-in-gaza-nightly-in-taped-interview-wit Why is he like this? At this point I cannot even take him seriously or be angry at him He is such a cartoonish bad guy it is almost like an online troll The one and only thing I appreciate about people like him or Daniella Weiss is that they are very honest about what they are and have no shame in saying it out loud. They do not pretend to be someone else (like Bibi) I find it insane he is in such an important position or that his party is projected 20% in the next elections (or is that not true?) How do your friends, relatives and ordinary Israelis feel about him?

I got no love for MAGA but putting them into the same category as the Israeli settlers or Nazis is a bit exaggerated imo You basically have a MAGA government in USA via Trump and it is no near as bad as the Nazis or the Ben Gvir movement is What is ironic is that most of the hate towards USA from the world comes because of their endless bombings of other countries especially in Middle East and before South East Asia Meanwhile MAGAs are for no involvment in wars Techanically USA would be less hated globally if MAGA had it its way And internally except some quesitonable actions by ICE I have not seen anything insanely bad You cannot compare ICE to the Settlers or IDF in terms of brutality So although all are stage blue, MAGA is the least violent stage blue It is just ignorant and dumb and racist but not violent in the same way Unless we are talking about KKK type MAGA

Yet common citizens (not corrupt governments) are becoming more and more critical of Israel's devilry Its reputation, especially among younger people is reaching new lows Even in USA! https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2026/06/04/most-people-across-36-countries-have-negative-views-of-israel-and-little-confidence-in-netanyahu/ Their propaganda does not work that well anymore Especially with non boomers that use the internet and social media

Finally USA is moving from Orange with some Green to solid Green when it comes to demoratic party candidates!

I remind you that the ones that are wanted for war crimes and crimes against humanity are not those religious people Likud is also horrible

Thank you very much @Nivsch It helps deepining our understanding Personally, I cannot talk much about Israel itself because I do not live there My concern is mostly about the whole Palestine topic and how Israel conducts itself when it comes to Israeli politics On that topic, only Yair seems to be reasonable and actually care about international law The rest seem from bad to horrible Note: I am talking in terms of Jewish parties, not the Arab one you sent which obviously will be more sympathetic to Palestinians

Trump for sure has a role to play in this Probably Israel too USA has huge influence in Morocco and Spain went against USA and Israel It makes logical sense for them to punish Spain through this What is so weird about it? Both Trump and Bibi are as shameless as it gets

I saw it To be fair I was referring to something else You see when some people including you talk about a civilized society, you mean things like LGBTQ, women in work spaces etc At least the video was about that in a way that you sent I am referring to something else I am referring to the methods that they deal with who they perceive to be an enemy A civilized society would not snipe kids nor use starvation as a method of warfare A civilized society would not terrorize people to kick them out of their homes (West Bank) A civilized society would worry when all human rights group say they are causing grave crimes against humanity A civilized society does not use disproportionate force to deal with threats A civilized society does not torture nor rape and debate this in parliament, whether rape is ok or not A civilized society views the enemy as human just like them but with a different set of believes and views, it does not dehumanize them This is what I am referring to

@Nivsch https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-06-03/ty-article/.premium/a-grim-poll-shows-most-jewish-israelis-support-expelling-gazans-its-brutal-and-true/00000197-3640-d9f1-abb7-7e742b300000 https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/2025-08-05/ty-article/.premium/large-majority-of-israeli-jews-untroubled-by-reports-of-famine-in-gaza-poll-finds/00000198-7ab3-d0ce-a5de-fbb374f30000 I try to use Israelis sources as much as possible

To be fair I have seen many polls in Israel where 80% or more support ethcnic cleansing or genocide It is not "some people" it is the majority

Do those outweight desire for genocide and ethnic cleansing? To me a genocidal society becomes null regardless of how great other things may be like gdp or technology. Nazis were also pretty techonology advanced and organized. Yet they are seen as bad because they were genocidal. I feel you are too harsh on them. I have seen tons of interviews with them and many are reasonable. Especially in West Bank. Hartd to be chill when you lost half ur family in strikes like Gazans have. Given how much Palestinians have suffered they could have been a lot worse . Their issue is how stubborn they are more than anything. The religious part is mostly some Hamas nutcases, the majority are nationalists not religious zealots. If you see interviews about regular palestinians their motivation is about getting the land they lost back and justice, not global jihad. Neither was Hitler of Stalin. Does not mean they were nice guys or guys you should befriend Putin is also not a religious fanatic yet I see way more demonization of Putin then Bibi When Trump tried to treat Putin with some resemblance of how he treats Bibi, everyone in USA lost their shit I personally find Bibi's war crimes much worse than Putins

Is this based on who you would like or who realistically will become? Also unrelated question, is there any typical Stage Green party in Israel? All ones I saw seemed either Blue or Orange to me Something like "peace, love, equality" blla blla party I would give you European examples if you know about European politics

A true Atheist would be against all religious extremism A lot of Israeli devilry comes from Judaism extremism Also you have Christian nutcases in the American government doing damage to USA and also some perform war crimes in African countries Yet they are not called out by these people Not to mention Budhist extremism in Myanmar or Hindu extremism in India Calling out only 1 religion extremism shows to me a huge anti Islam bias more than an Atheist bias Which is why I called the guy Islamophobic I am personally not religious at all but I do not only call out 1 religion extremism, but extremisim in itself How come they do not call out the Israeli religious extremism (Judaism extremism) in the Israeli-Palestine conflict as much as they call out the Islamic extremism of Palestinians in groups like Hamas?