Karmadhi

Is that the default governance of a stage orange or is America the case of toxic orange? Can you have a healthy orange democracy that is not an oligarchy or stage orange eventually by design will lead to an oligarchy?

Noted! Thing is that I do understand it intellectually, but still emotionally I tend to see it as bad or unevolved in a way. Like I assign a value to it. Your videos have helped a lot. What angers me the most are double standards and hypocrisy I agree with you on that. I told even others who were shitting on Biden about that, that Trump will be way worse. I think not voting for Kamala and choosing Trump is not even being too green, it is just stupid. Trump is cryptonite to Green.

They resonate to me a lot How do I grow out of it? I live in a pretty green place and if there is no green, it is orange and blue Yellow is hard to get to Your content is possibly the only yellow I have in my life and even in this forum most do not seem yellow to me I must confes when I started watching your content 5 years ago (during first lockdown) I was pretty orange with some green and a bit of blue. But an orange center of gravity. Now I would say my center of gravity is green with some orange and veryyyy little blue I really find Spiral dynamics and all these models interesting so that is the yellow in me However it is hard for me to apply it in real life outside simply putting people in categories And even then sometimes a blue/orange actor can trigger me more than a red or blue actor which is fundamentally still green mindset with yellow knowldege

What do you think of Mehdi Hasan? To me he is the best out of the leftist people in terms of articulation, debating skills and overall moral development Also pretty relaxed compared to Cenk or Destiny that get super emotional and childish He is definetly stage green but I have not seen from him a lot of the toxic components of Green which you can see in some other commentators He seem pretty grounded, healthy Green The Jubilee debate where he argued against 20 far right Americans showed it Crazy restraint from him considering how insulted he got on his face

I have seen critizing Israel is becoming more and more legally problematic in the USA since Trump came back so I am not sure you guys have proper freedom of speech either. During Biden it was better.

They were not "casualities of war". They were part of a systemic genocidal campaign to rid Eastern Europe from Slavs and populate it with Ethnic Germans. Belarus lost 25% of its population and 95% of those civilians died AFTER the country was already occupied. 600 villages with all their inhabitants were destroyed. Similar things in Russia and Ukraine. Overall close to 15 million Soviet civilians died during the Second World War (if we exclude all the Jewish). Most of them were killed in genocidal attacks similar to the Holocaust. If you research, many people who died in the concentration camps were not Jewish but Polish, Russian, Gay, Romani etc What people forget is that the Jewish people were not the only group the Nazis wanted to exterminate. It also included Romanis, LGBT, Slavs etc It is offensive to call such things "casualities of war" Google Generalplan Ost

I think the job of loud lefiests like Cenk is to increase awareness and create some sort of moral revolt in people that can help tackle unfairness in the world Centrists are better in finding solutions once people become aware and willing to discuss solutions First you need to get people up which leftiests do very well Also Leo I am pretty centrist on a lot of topics like taxes, sexuality, Ukraine and immigration It is mostly on Gaza where i become full blown leftie

I never said it is a bad thing. I simply stated that Destiny to me seems more centrist than a leftie. That is how the conversation started So we somewhat agree on this Also thank you for your responses, it is quite lucky of us to have someone as Wise as you openly discuss with us.

They are pretty good at making sense of Israeli terrorism so. To me it is just an anti Muslim and anti Arab bias that when they do bad things it is terrorism and when the rest do bad things it is "complicated". Double standards. I notice Americans are conditioned in this way since 9/11 to associate anything bad Arabs or Muslims do with terrorism and when other entities do similar or worse actions they use different terms for it. Pure bias. It is the trademark of a leftie to empathize with low developmetn societies Which makes me think Destiny is more centrist than leftist.

I dont think Hamas is still relevant to this conversation It is about ethnic cleansing/genocide at this point You could make the "Hamas" argument in the first year or so They wont rule Gaza anymore anyway, also all their top leadership has already been killed Also defending the side that has Smotrich and Ben Gvir is not easy either Do you see what they say? A clip for you: The 1 for every 50 btw came from Nazi Germany that had such a tactic to supress partisan attacks on the Eastern Front "The number of hostages to be shot was calculated based on a ratio of 100 hostages executed for every German soldier killed and 50 hostages executed for every German soldier wounded, a formula devised by Adolf Hitler with the intent of suppressing anti-Nazi resistance in Eastern Europe" The irony This is what Israeli defenders are defending or justifying The Iranian government is also pretty bad yet Israel did not do the same to Iran Hezbollah is also pretty bad and Israel did not do the same to Lebanon Difference

How can a leftie like Destiny fall for a bias which is condusive of hardcore religious nutcases and far right government supporters? That I cannot understand Destiny is pretty informed on this matter, he even went to Israel to tell IDF troops to stop recording their war crimes.

I do not think what Israel is doing now is complicated It is just wrong and should be condemned and not supporter nor justified DIfferent issue on the first 2 months of the war where you could make arguments from both sides My issue is Destiny still defending Israel in August 2025, not in October 2023 Piers Morgan for example who had similar position to Destiny with time changed his mind because he realized Israel actions are no longer defendable and just wrong. People that still defend Israel in summer 2025 today are either paid by them or morally rotten Ironically the only Western government that does so is Trump which you so much despise

So if someone had mostly good positions but was also a Trump voter (fan) you would still take him seriously?

That position tells me all I need to know It is like you judging people based on them supporting Trump and using that 1 position to put them in a category regardless of their other opinions on other topics. You immedietly disregard them because that 1 position is so telling Same with Destiny here And it is not about how outraged you are. Nobody here is sayiing Destiny to be as outraged as Cenk But Destiny does not give a single shit Total lack of empathy is not the same as moderate empathy

Such as all invasions are Nobody here says it is ok what they did, so I do not know why you are talking about it The difference between Russia and Iraq for example is that Russia has a lot of reasons, which are legitimate in their eyes to carry out this invasion USA had no legitimate reasons, they were just lying Deluded reasons which are legitimate to the invador are better than pure lies I am sure Russia geniounly believes their crap And I have not seen a single person in this forum defend it or say it is a good action This whole forum is pretty aligned with that issue What changes here in opinions are the motivations behind the action, not the action being good or not.

Please do not call Destiny a leftist Leftiest have empathy for oppressed people and he has 0 empathy for the monstrous crimes happening in Gaza and is very biased towards Israel He is centrist Leftiest on some topics like gender and right wing when it comes to oppressed people like Palestinians A proper leftiest would get furious at the matter Like Cenk or Hasan or Vanush do Destiny to me has lost all moral credibility when he tells IDF soldiers to stop recording war crimes because it is bad PR Total lack of humanity from him

Maybe he thinks Ukraine is not a democracy? A lot say that Also, why does the fact that a country is a democracy or not matter even? Invasion is wrong regarldess You have a democracy bias as if invading democracies is somewhat worse when in the end people die nonetheless

I will give me 5 cents why: 1. Scale The death toll of civilians and especially childreen in Gaza is magnitute higher than in Ukraine if we take into account the populations of each entity. In Ukraine there have been around 700 or so childreen killed meanwhile in Gaza close to 20.000. Overall the civilian death toll is also higher in Gaza as well (at least 50.000 compared to 12.000-20.000 in Ukraine) We need to take into account the war in Ukraine has been going on for 1 year more and Ukraine has around 20 times Gaza population. Regarding Mauripol, the Human rights Watch did a detailed study which estimated around 8000 deaths. Which is why I said 12.000-20.000 2. Footage This is huge. In Gaza we are bombared every day with horrible footage of injured and dead childreen and adults. In Ukraine all we see is destroyed buildings. Friends of mine have told me "In Ukraine I only saw some destroyed building so it is not that bad". If people do not see death, it means things are not bad as if there was death, they would see it. Just like they do in Gaza. This may be the most important reason why people think Ukraine is not causing much suffering to civilians, like Gaza war is. 3. Intensity In Israel whenever there is a strike or a bombing campaign, it leads to dozens if not hundreds of deaths. A single missle strike often has killed close to 100 people (mostly civilians). Meanwhile in Ukraine we often see in the news that Russia launched 100 missles and 300 drones and from all these maybe 2-3 people were killed. This gives the impression that these attacks are not designed to mass murder civilians because of this simple reasoning. "1 missle in Gaza killed 50 people and 20 missles in Ukraine killed 3 people, so Russia is not trying to mass kill civilains like Israel. So it is not that bad". This is how people think. 4. Feeling of complicity While people in the West have sanctioned Russia (via their governments) to the detriment of their own economies, they still trade and have relations with Israel. This causes people from these countries to feel guilty, complict and angry at their governments. There is no reason to be angry with Western governments regarding Ukraine where they have done everything they can to support them (Trump administration being a potential exception) 5. White priviledge bias There is a general view in many countries that white people are priviledged and therefore they do not suffer as much as other more oppressed groups. Therefore, a war where whites only are involved is not as bad as a war where whites kill non whites. 6. Intent The Israeli government has made endless genocidal statements towards Gaza. The same has not been said in Russia. They are much more discrete and in general do not reveal as much. At least, it does not reach Western medias. The same goes with ordinary citizens in Israel openly supporting and cheering on when civilians die in Gaza. You have endless videos of Israeli regual citizens saying they want to kill all Gazans. Such videos do not happen from Russian citizens cheering on Ukranians being wiped out. Or if they do, they do not reach the West. 7. Actual destruction The scale of destruction in Gaza makes anything in Ukraine look like nothing, especially when it comes to major cities. I have seen footage of Mauripol and it seems 10x better than Gaza does today. 8. Missunderstanding People tend to think that Russia is given a free pass to do what they want morally by Western liberals but that is false. Nobody here says it is ok what Russia is doing. But due to the reasons I wrote above they choose to focus their anger at Israel instead. There is only so much anger someone can have. I am sure if the Gaza war had not happened, people would be much more angry at Russia. Ok guys, here are some of the reasons why I think we have this phenomenon I have noticed it as well and sometimes I mention it to people I know who seem to fall for it. Both wars are horrible and neither is acceptable

I do not know why you think we are somehow pro Russia or China I cannot speak for all the people tagged but I personally support Ukraine and was horrified when Russia started the invasion However, Russia was from day one condemned and sanctioned by Western countries, something that is not happening with Israel I think that double standards is what angers people the most

@PurpleTree I have noticed more than half of Israeli population are NOT Ashkanazi Jews and have roots from the Middle East They are not European looking basically. Which is funny because whenever people want to insult Israelis they always say "Go back to Europe" when like half of them have 0 links with Europe. They came from other Middle Eastern countries like Iraq or Morocco. How come almost all the PM are Ashkanazi Jews when half of the population is not? Is there some sort of discrimination between the Jewish themselves in Israel (Ashkanazis have more power) or is it just coincidence? @Nivsch Help us here

That was 90 years ago and the funny thing is that it was done by a Georgian yet Russia for some reason gets all the hate. At the same time they say that Stalin had godlike power within USSR and they blame Russia for what the Georgian God did. Does not add up. Holodomor was another level of messed up but it was too far in the past to be relevant to this conversation Yes that is awful. I am not saying Russia is angel. I just said Israel is WORSE. Thats it. Meanwhile Russia takes kids into Russia, Israel starves them and snipes them. Killing someone is worse than taking them in another location. This is a comparison of which is worse, not saying X actor is not bad. A cultural genocide is not the same. By that logic Israel has been doing that in the West Bank for decades, yet we are not talking about that. A cultural genocide is not as bad as a physical one. You know Israel basically has surrounded the West Bank, nobody can get in or out without their permission. They arrest people whenever they want and you have thousands in inhumane prisons without any charges. Kids too. Israel is the only country to trial kids in military courts with a 99% conviction rate. Not to mention they have an army of illegal settlers which terrorize the locals and are backed up by the army. How is that any different to what China does with Ugurys? And this is the West Bank (no Hamas) I would like to see some numbers on that. To me what Russia does to Ukraine is more of a forced assimilation meanwhile what Israel does to Gaza is more of a forced cleansing. Russia for example forces Ukranians to get Russian passports. Israel does not. They are either forced to leave or live under a system where they have less rights. At least that is what I have noticed. I may be wrong. I know that in Ukraine around 700 kids have died out of 40 million while in Gaza it is around 20.000 out of 2 million. That difference is too huge So does Israel. Their reasoning is that it was their land 2000 years ago. Look man the whole point I am trying to make is that Israel is as bad if not worse than countries like China and Russia They get the treatment that Western countries get while endulging in tactics that those countries do not endulge in We are NOT justifying what Russia or China or whatever does UAE for example is backing up a genocidal militia in Sudan which is resulting in a lot of killings And BRICS is huge, it is not just China and Russia. Personally I am not so angry about them occupying Gaza which does happen when you loose a war as much as their total disregard of human life (sniping kids, forced starvation, carpet bombing etc). If they had fought this war using international law as its guideline i would not get so revolted if they occupied Gaza for a while. Of course kicking Gazans out is another story, I am referring to just staying there until things calm and leave For example Azerbajan in 2020 invaded Armenia and occupied some of the territory there Yet there were no protests Why? Because it was a war confined to armies with minimal civilian casualties https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Nagorno-Karabakh_War No images of starved kids or blown apart kids or any horrific report of kids being sniped in the testicals as target practice while queeing up for food

What do the average Israelis think of the new famine in Gaza and the whole new aid system

I havent seen Russia or China or India intentionally try to starve 2 million civilians and murder 20.000 childreen out of a population of 2 million We had the war where Azerbajan took land in Armenia in 2020 and barely any civilian casualties Even the Russia war on Ukraine in 3 years has around 12.000-20.000 civilian deaths out of a population of 40 million Israel brutality is too much even for BRICS standards The issue is not the war itself, but the war crimes and insanely high death toll proportional to the population I have not seen BRICS countries commit such war crimes and suffering towards innocent civilians in the recent wars where they have participated So its not the same in my opinion

It came mostly from religious reasons since they blamed Jews for killing Christ Do not forget hatred for Jews pre Israel was mostly a Christian thing Other groups including Muslims treated Jews not worse than they treated other groups Christians had a specific hatred for Jews for religious reasons The Muslim hatred for Jews mostly started because of Israel

Russia endgame seems to make Ukraine into another Belarus