Batman
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5 minutes ago, Ivan Dimi said:@Leo Gura Isn't Quantum physics at least going in the right direction?
It is not about right or wrong direction. It is about becoming conscious of what Science really is. The true nature of science is knowledge, conceptual and hearsay.
Science is a discipline for formulating an accurate story regarding certain circumstances or experience within the human domain.
But it will never, never, never be the experience or the circumstance that the Science represents.
Humans place their trust or base their belief in science because they are holding its methods for gathering story or "facts" as valid or trustworthy, due to cultural indoctrination. But again, when you boil down any scientific "discovery", the only thing you find is hearsay. You did not directly experience that "discovery" or the "thing" that was measured by yourself. Simply put, you are absorbing the "conclusion" of the research without experiencing it for yourself. By this you only gather knowledge, which is purely conceptual and not actual within your personal experience. And usually you are not considering the possible biases of the scientist or the process of reaching the discovery.
In it's essence, believing in scientist story is no different from believing in a pick-up artist story of how he got laid. The only difference is the method used to formulate the story.
It's not so hard to grasp. Just consume enough Psilocybin or LSD or 2C-B (or any other mind altering psychedelic that is not blasting you totally outside of the human experience) and you will experience directly the distinction between having a direct experience of the thing itself, and the story that represents the thing. Become conscious that the mind functions (among other) as a knowing device for manipulating reality (or "future" Now). You must become conscious of mind mechanics. It is a cornerstone in consciousness work and enlightenment.
Stop wasting time. Assimilate within your experience the distinction between knowledge and direct experience. It will transform your life, 4eva. You will learn how to make the mind a loyal servant, rather than a violent master (or monster).
Seriously, stop messing around. Do the work. Stop reading posts or watching more youtube videos. They are only there to point you to experience this for yourself. This is Leo's lifework. He is pushing you to experience this for yourself. Then you will grasp how much Leo loves you, that he is willing to share his experience, only for you to understand that you must experience it for yourself, rather than believe him the same way you believe science. Stop fooling around. If needed, pull yourself by your bootstraps. Stop conjuring, concluding and gathering knowledge. Start experiencing this ffs. Leo is literally pouring gold on the floor for you. Just pick it up and test it for yourself. When you realize this for yourself, you will also grasp how much Leo loves you that he is sharing this. Fuck. I'm in tears. Leo, I wish we could make love together, it will be beautiful. But I am too much straight-indoctrinated due to society and culture. I'm sorry. I still have more work to do, I know. Eventually, there will be a collective humans species orgy. At least in some derivative actualization of infinity.
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1) Completely realizing the distinction between direct experience and mental activities. I was mindblown by awakening to the conceptual overlay and the domination of concepts on our daily experience.
2) That there is no such a thing called 'Life'. Only a type of form that fights dissolution of the form.
3) That conceptual context (or "meta-mind" activity) is the dictator of our field of experiences. Change the context that your mind was programmed to submerge your experience in, and see how everything changes. This will open your entire field of experience to new possibilities. In other words, context is the fabric of your mind-matrix distinctions. Changing the context or dropping it will either dissolve some of the mind-matrix, or open a doorway to new distinctions in experience.
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Slacklining
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This is question is awesome.
Try to see what is behind "survival", by asking what it really is, and what gave rise to it.
One may suggest that survival is the activity produced to prevent the dissolution of a "living" form. But ultimately, the most fundamental substance of all form - whether animate or inanimate - is the same. If this is the case, than your process of human form dissolution is no difference than the erosion of a rock. The only distinction therefore is that a life-form may change its behavior in order to fight the dissolution, and that it may have the capability to reproduce.
In the end, it is all a play of form. Maybe you should inquire how 'life' (or the 'active' fight against dissolution of form) and living-forms began in the first place. It is possible that somehow, inanimate form was randomly or suddenly rearranged in a formation that gave rise to the capability of resisting it's dissolution, transforming it to a life-form. But I never inquired this, so I will hand it over to you. You can start by researching the tiniest organisms of life-forms on planet earth. Why would Amoeba would care to exist at all?
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The thing that is stopping you from experiencing mystical experiences is the belief that your current experience isn't mystical. Greedy bastard, life is mysical. Learn to recognize this and see how the mystical experiences will come to you.
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@Jimrubin Dude, what's with advocating this book in such a religious fashion?
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"When you meet the Buddha, kill him."
And I would add: "Immediately".
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I wish you a profound experience. Haux Haux!
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Hey,
Yes, as you become more and more awake to the nature of mind, and specifically to the activity of thoughts and their function for self-preservation, it will gradually "put them in their right place", so to speak. When you become more conscious of this activity and it's nature, you will notice that you use it to manipulate others and reality, rather than acting in accordance with your authentic internal state. In time this will cause the mind to "take a step back" and have less dominance over your experience, ultimately leading to a place where your understanding of this function is deep enough so it will be utilized in the appropriate circumstances.
I would not say that they completely stop, because the activities of mind are functions of the organism which you are, and they developed over time for the necessities of self-survival. However, due to the development of language and modern culture, the pursuit for gratification of the senses and social approval, mind activities became the dominator of human experience. Awakening to this facet of your experience 'degrades' mind activities back to their original use.
Have fun,
Batman
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32 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:New phone. Who dis?
Ken Wilber.
OP - he is a very foundational teacher within our realm. I would assume that a lot of "seekers" miss him out due to his articulative and analytical style. He has lesser degree of new-age vibe, unlike Tolle, Adyashanti, Spira, Kahn and so forth. I should clarify that this is stated without judgement towards any direction.
It actually reminds me when I was a teenager who was digging into spirituality, I came across Wilber's work but could not resonate with any of it. Only later I find out that he's work (and other models of psychological development) explains exactly why that was. Ahh, the irony.
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Existence is a function of mind. Meaning, that anything in your present experience (the "Now") which you are conscious of, is your existence. Of course, there could be infinite aspects of experience that you are not conscious of, and therefore they will now exist for you, but may exist for others. It does not negate the possibility that a certain aspect of experience might exist for you in a "future" Now, or that you will know of certain aspect of past experience that you were not conscious of in real-time.
Meaning, the existence of New Zealand (which is a legal concept of itself) is purely conceptual in your present experience. Even if you visit New Zealand and return to your home country, New Zealand return to reside in your experience as pure concept, belief, or any other mental activity you would like to classify it. This means that your experience of it has degraded to a mental activity. If it is not actual for you and you do not directly experience it, than it does not exist for you.
By the way, knowing is also a conceptual framework. You can posses in your mind conceptual knowledge of New Zealand's existence, even though you've never been there. Your only way to overcome or address this impediment is to become conscious of, or awaken to, the mesmerizing depth and mindfuckery of the distinction between direct experience and mental activities (such as thoughts, beliefs, stories and concepts). Becoming awake of the degree to which your experience is dominated by mental activities will blow your freakin' mind, and leave you with an astounding headache. But you will also mature dramatically by this awakening, ultimately allowing you to grasp better the mechanics of mind, and sharpened understanding of the saying: "The mind is a loyal servant, but a bad master".
Yours,
Batman
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I hope it is okay to invite myself
to propose a (slightly) different approach.
The word Mind generally serves as a representation of certain activities within the different domains of experience, generally known as mental activities which are absent of object, such as thoughts, emotions, internal chatter and so on.
Therefore, it appears that Mind is a distinction within human experience. That is I wouldn't classify it as a "feature" of Consciousness, which is generally regarded here as being prior to Mind. It also seems as if Mind has a self-referential aspect to it, provided that the activity of mind is the generator of the distinction Mind itself.
Also I would not hold that the activities of Mind serve as the foundation or source of perceptions and emotions (unless you wish to recontextualize the general interpretation of the word 'Mind'), because they seem to exist almost entirely independent of each other (although probably impossible to recollect, I would assert that an infant experience perceptions and emotions, but lacks the Mind faculties needed for interpretation, identification or other form of mental activity which is required to establish the 'requisite' relationship to the content of their experience).
Of course that everything stated above is rather pointless if your intention by using the word Mind with capital letter was to refer to a certain meta concept of mind. Please clarify.
By the way, I am thrilled to hear how did you experience Brahman.
Yours,
Batman
in Spirituality, Consciousness, Awakening, Mysticism, Meditation, God
Posted
Sometime on our human evolution, we developed an amazing capability to conceptualize. Meaning, the ability to have a mental representation of something we perceived. Over time, we learned to distinct different faculties of conceptualization within our experience: memory (a representation of past experience); belief (a thought about certain behavior in existence that is not grounded in personal experience); imagination and creativity (the ability to fabricate non actual reality); language (the ability to represent personal experience with symbols); meaning attribution (the ability to place value or charge for every aspect of experience); internal chatter (the ability to speak with your "self") and so on. We also see that there is a certain overlap between the various distinctions in the domain of Mind experiences.
Mind activity is an extremely useful tool for survival. Try to discern all the mind activity you have going right now, in this moment, regarding your current existence, past experiences, who and what you are, what is life and reality, where do you live, how do you relate to certain people in your life and so on. It will be almost impossible to discern all the mental activity your mind is project onto you perceptions, for the benefit of your survival. It is really remarkable, and it is the sole reason for our ability as human species to dominate other animals.
Mind is a very complex web of all the memories, concepts and belief a human being "assembles" throughout life for the purpose of survival. In its essence, it is a matrix of concepts imposed on your perceptive faculties, allowing your to ignore, emphasize, distinct, interpret, assign different values, etc., all in relation to the self. Mind serves to maintain the form of the self.
As you probably noticed by now, mind also has the capability to self-reference. You are using your mind in order to distinct mind activities from other activities. This means that the distinction mind, created by mind, is a concept as well, and not what mind really is. But using mind for discerning different activities of mind is very useful for transformation and awakening. But again, one must remember that representing mind using mind is self referential and the same as viewing the map as the territory. Hence, every distinction within your field of awareness is the working of mind. That is, even your self. Mind is the organizing principle of distinctions in awareness, and it is the creator of your self. Self is only a distinction your mind creates within your perceptive faculties. Now you must become directly conscious that your experience of being separated from others in purely conceptual, and dominated by the mind.
This is why psychedelics are so powerful in insights and awakening. Psychedelics disrupt the normal activity of the mind, allowing you to experience a different mind-matrix for some time. This provides you with more reference points to what mind really is. Mind is a very complex structure of mental activity, and it is probably impossible to map the areas in the brain that give rise to all this mental activity. Moreover, because mind is what used in order to understand and represent experience, it cannot and will never grasp or understand itself fully. The 'intelligence' that enabled the formation of mind in the first place will always triumph the limited intelligence of the mind. This is also why psychedelics are so powerful in realizing what mind is. Shutting of elements of the mind enables to grasp the mind from an experience which isn't dominated by the mind. That is, a different perspective on the mind, or vantage point. Do you get it? And different psychedelics have different effects on the mind, so you can play with the psychedelic experience to unearth different landscapes of mind. It is like position on a mountain in order to view your house from a certain point, and then going to another, different, viewpoint (like a tower) to view it from different place.