Moksha

One of the first things I read as a kid, that resonated with me then and still does: Believe me, every man has his secret sorrows, which the world knows not; and oftimes we call a man cold when he is only sad. - Longfellow I don't know what drove @SoonHei's decision, but will miss his insights, and am sorry for his wife, his children, and his other loved ones. On this forum, sometimes we get so caught up in philosophy and spirituality, and forget to honor the reason we are here in the first place. It is a soul journey, and ultimately it is nothing about concepts, and all about Love.

@Corpus Yes, all definitions are self-limiting. I am using the term as Tolle and others have defined it. I'm not a medical doctor as you are, but from the spiritual perspective, the rarity is not of Hawkings' particular condition, but of his capacity for choosing not to be defined by it.

You can't force someone not to suffer, any more than you can force them to wake up. Hell, you can't even force yourself to wake up. It happens when it happens.

With the exception of the above, I agree with what you have said, which I would call pain rather than suffering. Suffering is not about speaking, and is all about resisting. Tolle describes meeting Stephen Hawking, and the profound sense of self-acceptance that he felt, when Hawking looked into his eyes. Despite his severe disability, Hawking had accepted his condition, and moved beyond suffering.

Amen!

@Etherial Cat I agree. Nobody's teachings should be taken as gospel. At best, they only point to the truth that is already within you. Once the truth is realized, the teachings can be set aside as a raft that helped you across the river, and is no longer needed.

@Zeroguy Definitions are self-limiting. Choose whatever makes sense to you. Ultimately, there is no enlightenment, beyond relative reality. It is a word, used to describe an "individual's" realization and expression of their ultimate nature. It is not just seeing the fire, it is also living by it. If you are still bound by attachments, you are not fully enlightened. One who has merely heard of fire has ajnana, ignorance. One who has seen fire has jnana. But one who has actually built a fire and cooked on it has vijnana. - Ramakrishna The awakened sages call a person wise when all his undertakings are free from anxiety about results; all his selfish desires have been consumed in the fire of knowledge…Their security is unaffected by the results of their action; even while acting, they really do nothing at all. - Bhagavad Gita 4:19-20

My criticism is of the limited perspective of solipsism, which Leo's teachings are well beyond. If people only see nothingness, and are blind to infinite Love, it is a reflection of their current journey, and not of anything Leo has taught.

People can have multiple awakenings before enlightenment. Very few are fully enlightened, which is beyond Self-realization, and is the dissolving of all attachments. If someone tells you they are enlightened, they probably also have a bridge to sell.

Suffering is resistance to the reality of the present moment. It is only necessary until you wake up, and realize that resistance accomplishes nothing. Of course, if something averse can be changed, we should try to change it. But if we cannot change it, why complain about it, and create unnecessary suffering? Patients may experience tremendous pain from motor neuron disease, which is unavoidable. Given that it is unavoidable, how is it sane to resist it? The resistance only adds unnecessary suffering to the pain. Never end your life due to suffering. Pain is different, and I have said nothing about life decisions based on pain.

Viktor Frankl is a good example of this. Even in a concentration camp, where pain and death were rampant, he learned not to suffer.

@Megan Alecia To be fair, nothing I saw from @SoonHei suggests he was a solipsist or a nihilist. I believe his spirituality was deeper than that. But yes, people need to keep it real. Relative reality is still reality. Don't get lost in the mouse maze of the mind. Celebrate the beauty of this one life that you have. It will never be repeated. If ultimate reality is all that, we never would have created relative reality in the "first" place.

Beautiful, thank you for sharing. ?

I wish, but you can't force people to see what they aren't yet ready to see.

There is a difference between suffering and pain. Suffering is the primary source of awakening, after which it is no longer necessary. It is born of the misunderstanding that "you" are only "you", and is the result of being blind to Yourself. Pain is a different story. Living lucidly can help with the pain, but not all pain can be resolved. If people choose to end their lives due to insurmountable pain, that is one thing. But never end your life due to suffering.

Everything is infinite love, whether it is manifested or unmanifested. Just because the wave of an ocean is born and dies doesn't mean the wave never existed, or is meaningless. The wave is also infinite love. It is an entirely unique creation of the ocean, and is still the ocean. There will never be another @SoonHei. ? ?

If this is true (I have no reason to believe otherwise), it saddens me deeply. I can honestly say that in our interactions, @SoonHei never said anything that I disagreed with. I found him to be sincere, funny, and wise. To the solipsists and nihilists in our wonderful, crazy family: please pay attention to this. Consciousness is not just nothingness. It is also everything that it creates. Failing to realize this core truth is tragic. You created yourself for a reason. The cosmos is here for a reason. Don't dishonor life by braying about ultimate reality, and disrespecting relative reality as nothing but a meaningless "dream". @SoonHei was real, and his wife and kids are real. Yes, life is transient. So celebrate it. It is that fragility which makes life beautiful and worthy of honor. We will miss you, brother. ???

That is not transcendent God realization. Realizing nothingness is a step in the spiritual journey, within the dream, but only a step. The destination, which is the origin, is infinitely more abundant and beautiful than that. When you realize God, which is realizing Yourself, you will be flooded with Love. Traumatization is a tool of the ego. Be vigilant, but realize that it is no real danger. Nothing real can be threatened. Nothing unreal exists. Herein lies the peace of God. - A Course in Miracles

Any framework, whether spiral dynamics or chakra development, is vulnerable to ego identification. The ego loves to feel superior to others, regardless of the model it climbs. It is all so silly, when you realize that everything is the same Consciousness

Meditation is a powerful spiritual practice. It develops the capacity for stillness, and strengthens your defense against the egoic mind. For me, it is less about meditating for thousands of hours, and more about deeply realizing the insatiable appetite of the ego. It thrives on judgment, and will never relent. When you have suffered enough, your eyes will open. You will realize that thoughts never bring you peace, and are not who you ultimately are. They are piranhas circling your soul, constantly looking for an opening to take a bite. Let them circle, just keep your eyes open, and "you" will be safe. ? All from the relative perspective. Ultimately....

I had never heard of spiral dynamics before joining the forum. My immediate instinct was that it is just another puzzle trap of the egoic mind. We want to gauge our spiritual progress, against some model, which is such a joke from the ultimate perspective. Stages are nothing more than cloudy staircase steps within the dream.

The ego loves to label. Laziness, ambition, it doesn't care, as long as it can judge. What happens when you let go of judgment, and simply be? You might be surprised at the creativity and beauty that is waiting to be unleashed, when we are willing to lose the labels.

Kudos for recognizing this. It is easy to see the madness in others, while ignoring the madness in ourselves. Conditioning is the cohort of insanity, and no human is entirely free of conditioning. In ultimate reality, there is no "you", no "me", and no "conditioning". How hilarious is that? Consciousness is so good at convincing itself that its creations have sanity or insanity, both of which are nothing more than distracting dualities within the dream.

Zooming in, infinitely, points to the same mind-breaking truth as zooming out, infinitely. Quantum and astrophysics, as extreme explorations in both directions, lead to the same profound realization. What if, ultimately, there is no movement, and no direction? The human experience is so limited in scope. Einstein showed us this, beyond Newton's causal cosmos. In relative reality, there is no objective truth. It all depends on perspective. Matter, time, and space are all relative. When your eyes open, you see that the cosmos arises and resolves within ultimate Consciousness, like a cresting and waning wave. Consciousness is the ocean itself.

We could discuss scientific research on supra-brain Conscious experiences, like this: Ultimately though, "you" are relying on the experiences of "others", and as such there is no incontrovertible evidence, only the honest admission of ignorance. Intellectual arguments always spiral downward into an unanswerable abyss. Direct realization, entirely free from concepts, is the only reliable answer. Everything else is hearsay.