Moksha

Lol, touche. In fairness, I did say, "However, it does let you tap into a deeper Source of intelligence to help you do those things". The difference is that we are no longer attached to the fruits of our actions. Not to say we can't enjoy them for what they are

That is a beautiful way of describing it, and yes, that is how is feels. I experience it daily, but am far from being in a constant state of presence. It is always there, but the limitations of my little self often keep me from Being. I suppose that is why the masters describe the enlightenment process as a path.

Thank you for your answer. I agree that enlightenment won't buy you a house or pay your bills. However, it does let you tap into a deeper Source of intelligence to help you do those things. I believe, and have experienced, that it is a journey that engenders more love, more creativity, more wisdom, and less suffering in my life.

As I see it, there is only one Self-realization, which is the experience of yourself as consciousness in the present moment. It is abundant, healing, and beautiful, and it is completely nonconceptual. There is a multitude of self-realizations as well. In the course of practicing presence, I've become aware of the many ways my ego tries to lure me back into the labyrinth of my conditioned mind. I recognize the warning signs more quickly, and am getting better at catching myself before being sucked back into unconsciousness. But it happens far more than I wish were the case. I'm learning patience It is a progressive journey of enlightenment; there is joy in it, and my life is already so much better than it used to be.

@Someone here If you don't mind me asking, how does any of this apply to your life? I understand that you believe you are God and everything (including your so-called life) is an illusion, But are there any pragmatic implications to your realization? Do you suffer less as a result? Are you more loving, more humble, more patient, and more at peace in your life? Is all of this conceptual or has it meaningfully improved the quality of your life? If you have experienced less suffering and more joy, do you see this upward trajectory continuing for the rest of your life and if so why?

Ego is complete identification with the conditioned mind. Awakening is the experiential realization that you are not the conditioned mind. You are consciousness itself. Enlightenment is the spiritual practice of learning to stay awake, until the ego is completely dissolved. People sometimes mistake ego for arrogance. It can manifest in that way, but it is the complete complex of aversions and desires that distract us from the experience of ourselves as consciousness. It is always divisive, and is insidiously adept at seizing our awareness and plummeting us back into unconsciousness. Ultimately, all suffering is the result of the ego. Pain is unavoidable, but pain is different from suffering. Suffering results from a refusal to accept the isness of the present moment, and live in the Now.

What I'm referring to as the path of enlightenment is a steadily increasing capacity to be present regardless of our circumstances. Most of us awaken to who we are, and then rather quickly return to unconsciousness for a time until we reawaken. The conditioned mind is relentless in demanding our attention, and even people that have awakened, frequently fall back into identifying with their mind. The practice is to stay conscious more and more, until we are always awake. The fruits of presence are enjoyed along the path. The more steadily awake we are, the less suffering we will experience. Eventually we reach the point where we are always still, and are permanently free of suffering:

Infinite awareness doesn't instantly dissolve our attachments and permanently relieve our suffering. For most humans, dissolving requires time. The path to enlightenment is the practice of presence in our lives. It is the journey from ajnana to jnana to vijnana.

How can there be a path to enlightenment if everything is already enlightened?

@Adamq8 My brain respectfully disagrees

Enlightenment is 1) realizing that you are awareness, and 2) dissolving your desires through the radiance of that awareness. Awakening is the first step toward enlightenment, and the ensuing path is the deepening of that awareness that eventually leads to the end of suffering. Babies, puppies, and trees are beautiful because of their isness. But I don't consider them to be enlightened, since they are incapable of realization.

0 is nothing. 1 is everything. Infinity is nothing and everything.

Infinity is not just hard for the human mind to understand; it is impossible. I experience infinity in the transcendent dimension, but I don't understand it. Any human experience is unavoidably subjective. We can't experience anything without a brain. When our brain stops functioning, our awareness presumably stops as well. Maybe there is an ultimate awareness outside of the human brain, but if so it is impossible to prove it. Any proof inevitably derives from the brain itself.

Thank you for sharing your experience. Aldous Huxley famously experimented with mescaline over a long period of his life. His early experience, which he described in The Doors of Perception, felt enlightening, but he later decided that it was a dangerous distraction: His spiritual teacher did not approve of these experiments. However, he continued to conduct them and near the end of his life he concluded:

Bingo. This is why conceptual discussions are ultimately recursive. They can be fun, but the only knowledge they reveal is that there is no knowledge. Enlightenment is experiential, not conceptual. Being aware in stillness, without interruptions from the conditioned mind, is beautiful and it is healing. It is the beginning of the end of suffering, and that is all that matters.

@VeganAwake @Adamq8 Yes. Experiencing the Self is wonderful. It feels like infinite, loving, healing, awareness. It is a personal experience, not a conceptualization. I have no idea if it is ultimate reality, or a product of my unconscious mind. It is impossible to know. I feel freedom, am able to tap into deeper intelligence and creativity, and most importantly, I suffer less in my life; that is all that matters to me.

Yes, but only from a relative perspective. There is no ultimate perspective on the surface of the ocean.

According to eastern and western philosophies, the formless preceded the formed. Precedence requires....wait for it....duality. But ultimate reality is timeless and nondualistic. It is a paradox, even if you consider the world of form to be unreal (which I don't; it is real but relative and ephemeral).

@neutralempty Yes, our understanding is limited to the scope of our existence. Nothing that is formed can understand the formless, because the scope of the formed is inherently limited. Ayvatka , the Unmanifest, appears to be infinite. We can't understand it, so it would be foolish to project human characteristics onto it. Even the idea of the Unmanifest "understanding" itself or its creations is nonsensical. Maybe in a way it does, but if so it is beyond our comprehension. The only thing we know about it is that we know nothing. Awakening is the closest we can get to understanding Ayvatka. The experience of awareness, beyond the conditioned mind, is mystical. It feels like being one with the Unmanifest, but that is all that I can say. Whether it really is that, or whether the experience is a projection of the unconscious mind, is impossible to definitively determine.

It's like the Unmanifested is an infinite ocean of consciousness. The waves ebb and flow as the transient focal points of this underlying consciousness. The ocean itself is unified, but the waves are diverse. The waves are part of the ocean, but they are not the ocean. The waves have real, if ephemeral, existence, but they are only the surface manifestation of the ocean that created them.

If you look at the Perennial Philosophy, there is an infinite, changeless reality (unmanifestation) beneath the world of change (manifestation). The ultimate is formless and the relative is form. Form is a creation of the formless, but the formless does not depend on form. Unmanifestation (formlessness) is the uncaused cause. We are human beings. Human = Relative reality. Being = Ultimate reality. So we are a hybrid of Relative and Ultimate reality. Conceptualize: Form a concept or idea of (something). Idea: A concept or mental impression; an opinion or belief. Concepts and ideas are mental representations of our perceptions. Without a mind, they can't exist. Even with a mind, they only exist within the mind. When the mind ceases to exist, so do they. Unless you are Plato, in which case ideas themselves are eternal

@Javfly33It's from the Bhagavad Ghita.

Formlessness always exists; Form is ephemeral. Formlessness is uncaused; Form is caused. Formlessness is undivided; Form is diverse.

@Member Nice Laws exist, but they are hierarchical. Unmanifested Laws > Relative Laws > Deterministic Laws.

Reality is without needing us to understand it. The connection between Transcendent reality and us is that we are created by it and ultimately return to it. Concepts are implicit to the world of name and form, but not to Transcendent reality. Here's one way of describing it, although the description itself is not it: