Moksha

It may seem like a duality, if you consider your apparent self to be real. All dualities are illusion. The absolute, which is who you actually are, is beyond dualities.

Yes, I've compared ego death to launching a rocket into space. The initial gravity is already intense, and it only flattens you more the closer you get to the sound barrier. The mounting pressure seems unsustainable as it encounters increasing resistance. Your entire body shakes as if it is about to fall apart. Then BOOM. You pass the threshold of the senses, and accelerate to supersonic speeds. You are the rocket, the planet is the egoic mind, and gravity is its desperate attempt to keep you attached. It takes a serious supply of rocket fuel, which is suffering, to transcend the gravity of the ego and realize free space. As it turns out, you never were the ego, and your essence is at home in the stars.

⚡I would call it not a failure to think logically, but a success in seeing that truth is directly realized, beyond the conceptual capacity of the mind.

It's true. Fear is the mask that the absolute wears to hide from itself. Why hide? So it can experience the thrill of the chase. Eventually, exhaustion sets in and it realizes the chase has run its course. Time to remove the mask and go home. Demasking is easier when you realize fear is an illusion, and the entire chase was only a child's game.

So logic is a limitation the absolute places on itself, in order to appear other than it is? If so, it seems the answer to seeing though its own charade is to look deeper than logic can go.

What is the absolute according to logic?

How long does it take for a glacier to melt? Seems to me it depends on the size of the glacier, and the degree of its exposure to the sun.

Socrates applied logic to conclude that he knows nothing. As much as I admire Plato and Aristotle, I resonate with Socrates. What can logic accomplish beyond admitting its own limitations? I understand philosophy well enough to know it is entirely bound by conceptualization, and feckless as a means for direct realization. Absolute reality is beyond logic.

You don't even have to go to fear. You only need to remain anchored in the absolute, which is beyond fear. Everything else appearing to arise is a distraction, nothing more.

Not only manifestations within the character's field of awareness, but all manifestations are an avatar of the absolute. None of the manifestations is actual, only the absolute misidentifying as such. The true mistake is assuming that realization is real.

If you let the thought get close enough that you need to consider whether or not it makes sense, it's too late. You missed the shot. To master archery requires realizing that every thought is a lie, and automatically shooting it down. It's not about struggling against or analyzing thoughts or habits, but about deeply realizing that they always lead to suffering. They are the enemy, and need not be given any ground. Take a clean shot and move on. Whenever a thought arises, do not be carried away by it. Be rid of thoughts. The more integrated you become, the clearer it is that thoughts are an unnecessary byproduct of the conditioned mind. You start to live directly, beyond thoughts. You are under no delusion that thoughts can help you, despite their insistence to the contrary. On the relative level, basic thoughts contributing to survival are fine, but they are dramatically less necessary than most people realize. Generally, you can survive just fine on autopilot. @Water by the River Lightning storm on the horizon. ⚡

What do thoughts produce that is intransient? They constantly churn, in a maelstrom that means nothing. The only way to realize the unchanging absolute is to look directly within. It's true that absolute reality is beyond the ken of philosophy, because it limits itself to logic. At best, it realizes as Socrates did that logic is incapable of anything, beyond admitting its own demise. At least knowing that you know nothing is a step toward the inner gate, but it's nowhere near the surrender necessary to pass to the other side.

⚡You've already made significant progress. Continue practicing meditation, and once you are able to instantly recognize and dismiss thoughts without identifying with them, extend the practice into your daily life. It's the art of archery, where each thought is brought down with a precisely-placed arrow, before it even has the chance to fly. Notice your mental and physical habits, which cause you to suffer, and remain within the absolute instead of indulging in them. Gradually, they will dissolve and the inner portal will become more open, naturally without the need for psychedelics. One thing I've been wanting to ask is whether you are trying to sustain the extreme experiences you have on psychedelics, in the belief that this is possible as a perpetual state. It's not. Enlightenment is the unconditional flow state of the absolute, and ecstasy eventually resolves into serenity. As Ramana Maharshi puts it: The final obstacle in meditation is ecstasy; you feel great bliss and happiness and want to stay in that ecstasy. Do not yield to it but pass to the next stage which is great calm. The calm is higher than ecstasy and it merges into samadhi.

Exactly this. I remember talking with you on the forum years ago, and have seen your growth since then. Look how much you have learned in that time. Had I told you back then what you have realized now, you wouldn't have understood (in fact, I did and you didn't) but now you do You can't conceptually convince anyone to awaken. It's like an apple ripening on a tree. No matter how impatient you may feel, nothing makes a difference until the apple is finally ready to release its attachment to the tree. Try plucking it too soon, and a sour apple is all you get.

I haven't studied many spiritual systems, but I'm happy to hear that others have realized the same. Grace isn't a common pointer in most of the Eastern writings, but it sounds like Mahamudra covers this more clearly. I only know grace through direct realization. When it happens, it is obvious that the absolute within the human had only a little do with it. Once surrendering identification, the infinite flood of the absolute reunites the apparently separate essence with its source. It becomes a continuous flow of light. Since then, I've realized that grace continues to inform my daily life. I can't choose to channel light any more than I could choose to awaken. It happens in greater or lesser luminosity according to its cadence. The only task of apparent me is to keep the portal open, which becomes frictionless as integration deepens and attachments dissolve. It's all about the I thought getting out of the way of the I am.

Well said. The unveiled absolute is neither aware nor unaware of itself. It is awareness. Not unaware awareness, but unconditional awareness. Within the dream, it can forget or realize itself, but the appearance of unconsciousness and enlightenment is only the seemingness of transient relative states. Neti neti helps the absolute unwind its false identification with the mind, but only brings it to the gate. It realizes what it is not, but not yet what it is. To pass through the gate requires absolute grace, which reunifies that which was never actually separate.

It's lucid to see not only that others take their unique path to realizing the absolute, but also that the path of the self winds its own way upward, without revealing the course of itself entirely. It may be true that 5Me0 and meditation are ascenders for your current location on the slope, but save room on your belt for other possible tools. You may be surprised what happens around the next bend. ?

Awareness is only aware OF itself within its dualistic dream, which is existence. It's a subtle but significant point: the absolute is inherently and essentially awareness, beyond existence. To realize awareness requires the illusion of boundaries, but beyond boundaries, awareness is without requiring the appearances of forgetting and realization.

This thread began as a looming cloud trying to obscure the sun, but has since been dispelled by gathering winds of pure air. Nothing quite so lovely as an afterstorm.

You awaken to yourself within the dream. An enlightened being is the absolute perpetually aware of itself through the perspective of its character. Beyond the dream, there is no awakening or enlightenment.

Notice that the root of ideal is idea, or a thought representing a moral standard. As such, it can't be absolute. A philosopher like Plato could claim that standards independently exist, beyond the thinker, but this is just another idea that can't be confirmed. This is a fruitful discussion, because it illustrates the conceptual limitations of philosophy. Despite their brilliance, philosophers are entrapped within the labyrinth of the mind. At least Socrates realized that he knew nothing. Philosophers lack the capacity of mystics to escape the maze entirely, by surrendering thoughts and directly realizing the absolute which is their essence. Awakening is not a conceptual answer to a conceptual question, but an undeniable realization beyond the senses. Even after awakening, the realization is inconceivable to the mind, but it is so profound that the mind becomes sublimated. @Razard86 ⚡(not elemental damage, just acknowledging the truth of most of your recent posts)

@Reciprocality Do you believe ideals absolutely exist, beyond all cosmoses? Whether referencing the idealism of Plato, which nests the world of objects within the world of forms (cosmos within cosmos) or the realism of Aristotle, which claims that objects can't exist independent of forms, have you considered the absolute reality which is beyond the appearance of forms and formlessness?

@Water by the River ⚡Infinite boundless timeless Awareness. I like that (with the small request to change the A to a) Every name is a sword that people can cut themselves with, if not careful. It's one reason I try not to even capitalize (@Yimpa) any pointer that I use to describe the absolute. You're right that awareness can be misleading for many people, because the natural inclination is to apply it conceptually, on the relative level. The polarities of negative (Eastern) and positive (Western) spirituality are collectively a powerful pointer to the absolute, which is beyond both. Eastern mystics see god as emptiness, Western mystics see god as abundance. Both are right, but the absolute is beyond emptiness and abundance. It is a conceptually impenetrable mystery. How does the mind grasp spirit? It is only directly seen by letting go of all knowledge, and becoming small enough to pass through the silent gate of absolute realization.

On the relative level, dignity is a commonly accepted standard of morality. Absolutely, dignity still subtly reinforces the idea of separation. Who is there to be dignified, or to feel indignant? Love dissolves all boundaries, obviating the demands of relative morality.

@Water by the River Keep the epic train rolling Mystics describe it differently, but for whatever reason, I see the absolute as light. The idea that the absolute is blind doesn't resonate for me. I agree with the problem of describing the absolute as anything OF. It is not aware OF anything, as this would imply the subject-object duality of the dream. Every OF dissolves in the absolute ocean. It reaches the point where words simply fail, and only direct realization suffices. Below are a few pointers: [I experienced] the direct, total awareness, from the inside, so to say, of Love as the primary and fundamental cosmic fact…I was this fact; or perhaps it would be more accurate to say that this fact occupied the place where I had been. - Aldous Huxley Gate, gate, paragate, parasamgate, bodhi swaha! Gone, gone, gone beyond, gone beyond all going [please don't slay me, gladiator], offering the heart-mind to the fire of awareness! - Buddhist Heart Sutra (final mantra) The Self, pure awareness, shines as the light within the heart, surrounded by the senses. Only seeming to think, seeming to move, the Self neither sleeps nor wakes nor dreams. - Katha 4.1.7 Keep the "I am" in the focus of awareness, remember that you -are-, watch yourself ceaselessly and the unconscious will flow into the conscious without any special effort on your part. Wrong desires and fears, false ideas, social inhibitions are blocking and preventing its free interplay with the conscious. Once free to mingle, the two become one and the one becomes all. The person merges into the witness, the witness into awareness, awareness into pure being, yet identity is not lost, only its limitations are lost. - Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj You are awareness. Awareness is another name for you. Since you are awareness there is no need to attain or cultivate it. All that you have to do is to give up being aware of other things, that is of the not-Self. If one gives up being aware of them then pure awareness alone remains, and that is the Self. There is no duality. Your present knowledge is due to the ego and is only relative. Relative knowledge requires a subject and an object, whereas the awareness of the Self is absolute and requires no object. - Sri Ramana Maharshi