Moksha

@nitramadas A kaleidoscope, look forward to playing with it ? Exposing the ego is arguably the best thing that could happen. The worst thing that could happen would be someone clamoring up the color ladder, pointing out how their color is higher than someone else's, and not understanding that every color is inevitable.

After the disidentification, did you have any thoughts, memories, emotions? If so, who was thinking, remembering, feeling?

@Lews Therin Referring to the idea that infinity may be confusing or distressing, given that hell is unavoidable. If you understand that hell cannot exist without heaven, and that heaven too is unavoidable, does that bring you peace?

People spend their entire lives chasing the Truth when all they have to do is be. Hint: If you think you understand anything, you don't.

Let there be dice!

Any hierarchy is a welcome mat for the ego. It sets off my spider senses Laying down the Yield sign, @nitramadas do you have a good link on spiral dynamics besides this one? https://spiraldynamicsintegral.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/09/Merry-Peter-Reflections-SDi-v1-upgrade.pdf

Sounds like the primal fear of death itself. It's a damn hard monster to accept.

Even the now is still a belief, in the sense that it is experienced from a personal perspective. It's the closest most of us can come to ultimate reality

@SoonHei Sorry for the convoluted question What I meant was, do you think people on psychedelics can experience the final stage of enlightenment? Take a look at my post here: https://www.actualized.org/forum/topic/56889-is-it-possible-to-erase-the-concept-of-eyes/#comment-762503 People directly realize being connected with everything, and experience that everything is One. They realize being the creative energy of Consciousness. But it is still from a fixed perspective, stretching out to encompass everything else. The spiritual gurus that climb the highest, ultimately separate from any sense of personal identity, and merge into a universally Conscious state. There is no "I" any more; they totally disidentify from any sense of memory or personality or emotion or experience. At the highest level, they actually become the Unity. Have you experienced, or do you know anyone that has, this highest state on psychedelics? Purely out of curiosity, not the desire to try it myself

@SoonHei There's a lot of "I". In that state, what happens when there is no "I"? Not in the "I am everything" sense, but in the nonlocalized 3rd Eye sense. Do people on psychedelics ever experience that?

Mmmm, turtle soup

@abrakamowse Not only that, but they are smart enough not to challenge the angel blocking the road Animals can teach us, if we're willing to listen.

@Lews Therin If you aren't enjoying the nightmare, step out of the dream.

It is possible. The Buddha described four dhyanas, or stages of awareness. Others like John of the Cross, Teresa of Avila, Meister Eckhart, Augustine, and Patanjali have experienced the same mystical journey. The final stage is deadly quiet, like floating aimlessly in deep space. Maybe people that have tried psychedelics understand this to a degree, I can't say. The Buddha realized it through unflinching, one-pointed meditation.

@Mvrs The mind is hell. Zen is the state of no mind. Don't think, and therefore be.

Even the donkey can teach you something, if you don't get distracted by the bray

The present moment is the conflation of dream scenes. The dreamer is the sub-Ultimate reality (Atman) that is bound to the present moment. Ultimate reality (Brahman) is the observer and source of the dreamer and the dreamed, and it is timeless.

Materialism only realizes part of the circle. Matter doesn't give rise to Consciousness. Consciousness imbues itself into matter, and gives rise to itself.

@abrakamowse Preach it, brother Bohr

Direct experience is the nothing left when beliefs are dissolved (hint: It starts with "C" and there is no "Me").

It is an infinite cycle of dreaming and awakening, all within the ultimate Tat.

Consciousness is speaking through this idiot savant who doesn't even realize what he is channeling. If you sift through the slop of his ego, there are pearls. Consciousness infuses every form with its presence. It is not matter and motion, but is the awareness that enlivens matter and motion. It manifests a multitude of forms through diversifying and evolving those forms. It grows the capacity to realize itself. It is the grand game of life. He understands this, but he doesn't see.

@levani If you find yourself spiraling into depression, or into any other energy entrapment, just pull back. The beauty of meditation is that you are at the helm. There is only one rule: Be Conscious. When you are Conscious, thoughts and emotions have no power over you. Consciousness is the cocoon of light that keeps you safe. Stay peacefully present in the circle, and don't allow yourself to be pulled out of it into the void. Thoughts and emotions will probably float by. Observe them, explore them if you want, but don't identify with them. You may realize new insights and even experience healing as a result of this. The purest moments are when you are alone in the light. Enjoy the serenity. Feel the thriving energy that you are. When you are ready, dive into the sun, but not for too long. We have to build our capacity for light. It is astonishing and beautiful to bathe in it. Enjoy the spiritual spa

What a crazy, awakening, curious, creative, ruthless, caring, confused, primal, playful menagerie we are.

Very cool video on this that was posted last week, in case you missed it: