SamC

I don't think you appreciate or understood what I said. @Gesundheit Healing can go overboard if you assume that you're broken and take to much action to try to " fix" yourself when you feel like you're not worthy. That approach is in itself a sneaky way to operate from low self esteem, aka fear. In other words the best "exposure therapy", could therefor, not always but sometimes be to accept and feel your low self esteem. That's what I meant by with having to address your low self esteem before - cause if you feel like you have to improve your self esteem in order to get something, you're at the same time telling yourself the same message... "I am not worthy enough, I need to fix myself" But of corse, there is a paradox In order to get to that realization one might need to realize this thourgh raising his conciousness and " raising" the self esteem, til he reaches this endpoint. Where he is enough regardless of what he feels. It's kinda similar to spiral dynamics in a way, when thinking about it. One has to use ego to finally realize the true nature. About the thought anology. This points at the same thing - having low self esteem is just a story, but of corse a story where one is trapped. Of corse one can't get out of it just like that... But that's because of the other storys which says that low self esteem is bad and is the reason for my suffering and inability to in this case get a girlfriend. Again, We are afraid of low self esteem - cause of what it means, so what do you think we try to avoid and fix... Low self esteem. You see what I mean? Anyway - Teal swan covers this very well. Take a look at it if you want!

Feeling everything is okey, including feeling that you don't want to feel it.

I will. Yessir. Thank you!

@Gesundheit Might be the case. Doesn't addressing your low self esteem subcomunicate to yourself that you have low self esteem and therefor can't have an authentic relationship though? I mean what is low self esteem but a bullshit story that exists in your mind?

Love it man. Yeah I agree 100%. When you get high/ healthy self esteem there won't be much struggle in daiting. What do you think happens if one have some self esteem issues but still enough self esteem so that he still can attract some girls? In other words, will experience with girls aid in this process of becoming more comfortable with being who one is? Will getting laid help me to become more authentic? @Gesundheit

@Gesundheit Yeah this is what I've been thinking aswell. Can you expand on how it was for you?

So no self esteem boost when them cheeks were clapping?

Having the skills to get laid/ get a gf

@Striving for more Look at what I wrote about this also. ( in my thread where you repiled)

I understand that you beat yourself up and that you suffer from low self esteem and all that, I do too. it's okey, let those feelings be bro, feel it. But man, remember it is not the thoughts that you are. Your story of being an incel and all what that means is just a story. It is not you.... cause if you were fuck someone tomorrow? What would happen, you'd not be that identity anymore. Like think about it, one fuck and you'd be a totally "different" person... atleast you would think so. In other words, that identity doesn't exsist - other than in your mind. It is only real cause you create a narrative that when you blow your load on a girl, that action will magically change you at your core but than again does that reasoning really have substance? How much can one fuck change you? See it's not about being an incel.. it is what it means!!! Being an incel for you = I am worthless for you. That's the real core to this challenge. And I know.. It doesn't matter when you're entangled In different stories and anxiety, I get that. But realize that A you're not alone and not your thoughts and B that you can experience having sex with a girl if you want even if you don't belive it + accept your feelings as they are. Accept everything. The resistance aswell. Accept that you hate yourself. And than get to work and work on your self esteem and attraction skills. There is a new day tomorrow. Keep your head up man.

It literally is stealing and manipulation so yeah.

Interesting! Thanks for the insight Leo

Just curious my man. It's not like being horny is my number 1 piller of game lmao.

Makes a lot of sense actually.

@Setzer901 You write exactly like me lmao, it feels like I wrote this to myself. Yeah I am aware bro, I'm actually doing exactly that. I do a loving kindness meditation everyday and have started to accept what I'm feeling. What I'm trying to grasp however is that nuance that I am not aware of. I'm feeling I'm about to break through via an insight that changes my perception around this. I can't explain it but I sense it for some reason. I'm looking for that one aha moment, and I'm calling it, I will soon start to grasp it. ( than there will be deeper levels to it of corse, but I think you get it) Thank you for your super kind words man, I really appreciate it. You're compassionate and understanding af - and thats more unusual than one could think. (:

Letting people develop in their own time and less debating is one thing I've noticed I'm doing less as I've started to move more and more into yellow. This goes hand in hand with giving yourself a break aswell when you notice the same thing withing yourself. Also, noticing that people always do their best and can't help themselves when they are being unaware and biased was a huge one for me. Still have a lot more integration left though

Its probably because of religios stereotypes from our old society ): The sad thing is however that most guys would love for girls to feel comfortable being more flirty and to make the first move - I mean most guys don't even dare to do it themselves. It's a bless and a curse to have to approach and do the work and I honestly think that besides the slutshaming dynamic that unfortunatly exists in our society, most guys would be down for girls to try to pick them up aswell. In fact, many guys are terrified at being classified and judged as a pig, fuckboy, creep or whatever from the woman they approach, just like girls are scared of being seen as sluts. It's a hole dynamic of fear of being hurt, not seen, unloved, dumped, seen as a pig, seen as a slut that creates this narrative, where everyone suffers the consequences. The best would be if everyone, both guys and girls would be able to feel free and allowed to talk, flirt and fuck whoever they want - and that that would be the norm. This of corse in a highly concious way where more understanding and love towards everyone is present - including to ourselves. I understand your frustration. @Preety_India

@StateOfMind It's a paradox. In one way it is, but in another way it is not. There is nothing wrong with wanting to develop your ego - thinking this is in itself ego and fear. Ego is not bad - only ego makes it so Here is the thing though, self improvement often means, I need X cause otherwise Y Z or Q will happen which litterly is based on fear. The same goes with the thought- I shouldn't develop myself cause that's ego or self actualization is ego. Instead of this approach I belive that one should strive towards what we want to do, not what we don't want to do or have. This is the real definition of self actualization/ self transcendence for me. And this does not soly mean doing things to get something, but also accepting ourselves, our emotions and our desires as they are. For if we repress it, that will not be loving towards ourselves. ( note if you repress something, than that's what you should strive to love) If you repress your desires cause you're afraid of it being ego, is that love?

I haven't watched it yet, but it will be interesting to hear his thoughts on it. Here is the vid. What are your thoughts?

I mean Charisma command on YouTube is a pretty obvious one but this channel mostly covers social skills and stuff that can raise your social intelligence and understanding of people. Besides this, Leo did a video on humor - you can check that one out If you want. Being 100 % authentic and charismatic is in my opinion not neccessary the same thing though. I have been hella charming sometimes, while at the sametime not being myself. It's good to be both yourself, and get better at social interactions. What I would do if I was you is to learn from Charisma on command, Leo and Teal Swan + read plenty of books on charisma and social interactions + maybe a seduction course + continue with spiritual purification exercises ect and than just go out and practice practice practice. In other words learn to be charismatic by learning the psychology behind how to be charismati ( social inteligens) + learn to be yourself via meditation, shadow work, shamanic breathing ect.

Might be the case. I have no idea whatsoever

I wonder what @Leo Gura thoughts on this are?

LOL

Interesting perspective! Thanks

Acording to research conservatives tend to score lower on openness and higher on conscientiousness than those who consider themselves as liberals for example. Furthermore, we know for a fact that biology has a massive impact on our big 5 personality types, and that some people, in other words are not born to have high openes in their personality profile. If this is the case this should inform us that some people are not born to be spiral dynamics stage yellow - for they can't be open minded enough due to their lack of openes to experience. Here is my questions regarding this that I'd be super interesed to hear your answers to! 1: Does this mean that some people are "doomed" to be stuck on a lower stage for the rest of their life's because of their biology? 2: Is it even realistic that a conservative who is super closed minded can become a stage yellow in this life time? 3: Isn't spiral dynamics more of a modell on personality types than ego development? I mean, If all the people can't climb up - doesn't that open up for the possibility of sprial dynamics being an illusion which in reality mostly describes personality types? ( I mean it certainly is both - but some people can't seem to be bound by their personality) 4: If the answer to question 3 is yes. Could it be that some people must become another personality type to become a stage yellow eventually? ( like going from an ENTJ to an INFP, INTP or whatever) 5: Are there some MBTI personality types who tend to be more stage Yellow or torques than the other one's? Looking forward to an interesting discussion down below.