Breakingthewall

What means exactly that the self is illusory? I gave you 3 examples in the other post, the doctor, the accident and the tiger. Where is the difference? For me it's clear that there is no difference, the tiger is same real than the news of the doctor, then, why one is real and the other illusion? The example of the doctor is just an example, a new that is going to create a stable vibration of fear. Another reason could be that your mother didn't love you or anything. That creates a stable vibrational structure that is as real as a tiger. If the self is illusory, the tiger also. Just tell me your perspective, without entering if I'm this or that

The realization of no self, at least for me, it means that you collapse the separation between subject and object, between receiving center and experience. That is, there is no center that receives the information, but rather there is a living flow, and this flow takes the form of a perceiver perceiving. "Perceiving" or being conscious ceases to have meaning since what exists is the flow of reality. Then reality can recognize its nature, since it has broken through the limits. Perceiving becomes equivalent to existing, and with no limitations, the total openness of reality manifests.

But you said that you are omnipotent and you create the dream of reality. Creation needs an intention and an action to achieve a result: the dream of reality. Then you are creating something concrete, so if you are in god mode you could change anything. Why you can't?

I saw God, he was a light of total openness, transparent, limitless, total. It was its face He was also a source from which life emerged, and life was a divine nectar that was total joy, without blemish, without lack, absolutely full. It was its heart He was also a billowing flame emerging from the bottomless depths, dancing with itself in an intricate dance, joyful, sensual. It was its character He was also an infinite unfolding of form, without process, instantaneous, limitless, total. It was its form He was also a flow that flowed ceaselessly, and that flow was called intelligence and will, and they were direct; they didn't create the movement of the flow, they were the movement of the flow.

Yes I do all time, then I write. Without judgement, just description of what happens. done with nonsense for today 😉

first perception happens, then you articulate in thought to write about it

What can be called illusion is that there is a center that perceives reality. This is the configuration of reality now, but both the perceiver and the perception are reality unfolding or flowing. The breaking of the "illusion" is the collapse between subject and object, which equalize in the flow, the incessant becoming. Then reality can see itself without the barrier of illusion, that is, without limit.

If you perceive deep, you can see the intelligence of reality in many layers, the direction of the flow, Its essence, its character, its tendency, its ramifications, how it develops in its countless relationships. perhaps you can see deeper, other dimensions in which you develop in parallel, see its fluidity, like underground currents that join, separate. Perhaps you perceive that the ties that bind you to a certain person come from other planes of reality, from forms of existence that you cannot intuit but that are the cause of this moment developing exactly as it is. Maybe you can perceive what exactly is a relationship, what it means, why you should give this life in a given moment. All that is not conceptual, is deep perception that can be perceived directly

Deep perception is possible. The flow can perceive itself in very deep ways. The real understanding is not conceptual, it starts when the flow of reality is totally free

@Razard86 I was asking a hypothetical question for people who say perceived reality is illusory. If they believe that perceiving themselves as human is an illusion, why do they believe that perceiving themselves as God is real? Why do you think God is imagining perceptions, but for you, God's perception is real? My answer would be: that about the illusions is meaningless, any perception is the reality. The point is that human bias makes you stay in the surface, but the surface is real, as surface. But for those that believe that everything is imagination, why the perception of god is not imagination?

If someone kidnaps your 4-year-old children to sexually exploit them, would you laugh too, because it's innocent pristine perfection? Denying the reality doesn't work, but it's your choice. Reality is what it is, defining it is something that happens in the reality, then can't encompass the reality. "Illusion" is an idea that happens in the actual flow of reality, it can't define the flow, if you don't see this, you can't break the limited perspective

You need definitions in the limited perspective, but if you want to place yourself in the unlimited perspective, definitions are limits. If there is any definition, you are in the limited perspective. The ontology that's needed to make possible locating yourself in the unlimited perspective is a open ontology that makes your structure transparent. The opposition between real and illusion is not open, is limited, closed

Shortcuts doesn't work, forgiveness is nothing if you don't understand how you are closing. The path is not simple, success is not guaranteed

Maybe it's you who should see the reality of the self. If the phone rings now and it's the doctor telling you you have brain cancer, when the conversation is over, does it smell like something? Can you touch it? And what if he tells you your children died in an accident? Does that smell like something? And what if you go out onto the street and there's a hungry, 300-kg tiger walking toward you? That does smell like something. What's the difference with cancer? Is the tiger real, but cancer isn't? Why? If you don't understand that the self is an energetic structure that is printed in your cells (like a metaphor), you would do anti human spirituality. The thing is much deeper than it seems . But you could try, at the end you will realize, you will see. If you're interested, there's a documentary about psychedelic therapy for veterans of the Iraq War. Perhaps it will help you understand what the self is.

I'm nothing of those, if you define something it's just a definition that you are doing, and this is a limit. If you want to be limitless, you should forget any definition because a definition is something that limits the reality. If the reality is unlimited, it's undefinable by definition What you can do is perceive the tree, be open to it's reality, be one with it, but you can't say that it's an illusion because it's a separation and a limit that you are creating in your mind, a barrier

An example of anti human spirituality: your narcissistic parents needed to climb on top of you for validation. This creates a permanent structural vibration of lack, inadequacy, and fear in you, but you don't understand where it comes from. Other people instinctively, without being truly aware of it, perceive this, and since their lacking structure needs to climb on top of another to elevate themselves, they seek your friendship. You marry someone like this, have children, and you also have several friends who operate at that vibration. They all seem to care about you a lot, worry about you, and all that. But underneath, there's a strange vibration you don't understand. You don't even remotely understand the relational dynamics you're immersed in; you just know that you're unhappy. Then one day you hear a nonduality master say that you're creating your unhappiness with your thoughts. Your self is merely an illusion sustained by those thoughts. So, you can decide to replace those thoughts with others, and the suffering will disappear. What's more, you can stop the thoughts, and then enlightenment, which was already the case, will manifest. You, who are not especially insightful (not you, another random person 😅), believe this completely since it seems obvious, and you spend the rest of your life trying to change the surface of the lake without perceiving the lake.

You could say that everything is the same nature and interconnected, but If there is such a thing as a tree, to say it's an appearance is to deny its character as a tree. It's something else, an empty hologram. Why is it an empty hologram? Because it seems that to me?

then the body is an illusion. Why an illusion? Because it can die? So illusion is what can die?

So if the doctor calls me now and tells me I have brain cancer, is it an illusion?

I don't understand that of the illusory self. Why is it illusory? When I read a dialogue like this, it seems to me like two psychotics trying to be more psychotic. What does illusory mean? Is a tree illusory? What isn't illusory? The word illusory is psychotic.

Then why you can't fly? Or at least levitate things as a jedi. Just small things, when you are in god mode

It's inevitable to think this way, and if any of us are told we have a neurological disease or that we're going to be sold as slaves in Rome, we will suffer enormously. But the point is that this is the flow of reality. Enlightenment isn't knowing that there's another, better reality, but rather being one with the substance of this reality, which is the reality. The content can be crap from the conditioned perspective, and in fact, it almost always is. But it's about being able to step out of that perspective and place yourself in the substance right now, without bias toward what appears. Bias completely removes you from the open perspective. It's totally inevitable, and saying otherwise is naive. But if you manage to place yourself at certain moments in a perspective free of bias, little by little you align yourself with the flow. It's not easy work at all; in fact, it's extremely difficult. But we are evolving humans; nothing is impossible

No, it's a big difference. When you are a child, you flow freely because your structure is not formed. The substance of reality is free within you. You live, and by living, you know everything: you are. But reality has paths, structures, forms, and you will inevitably create a framework that will contain the vital flow. To contain it, there are energetic and emotional barriers that are innate and impossible to ignore. So, once you are trapped in your prison, as we all are, you can no longer return to the baby state by erasing the self, because the self is there, more solid than a rock. You have to take a step beyond the baby; you have to open yourself to the total. The baby is not open to the total; it flows freely, but at no point does the bottomless that lives open up within it. However, you, as an adult, have to take that step because otherwise your structure will remain exactly as solid, no matter how much you adopt the ideal of no self and try to minimize the self. You can't because you, the one who attempts that, is precisely the self.

It's not the absolute truth because it's an idea, and as such, it is relative. The idea that consciousness can extend eternally is opposed to the idea that it has an end. It is a mental structure that you are creating now. Absolute truth is not an idea; it is the total opening to what you are. It is more of an action than an idea. You are closed in your mind. At a given moment, you fully open your framework, your energetic configuration that defines you, and the whole manifests. Your ultimate nature, the unlimited openness that is the source of flow, and you recognize yourself as the total. Then you return to your structured reality and from there, you think that consciousness will most likely be eternal and all that.

I think that is possible, but extremely difficult. If you place yourself in a perspective in which you are the flow of existence, reality is peace, beauty and glory, but of course, then you find out that your brother has raped your daughter and automatically you are in the human perspective and you cannot get out of it because it is extremely magnetic. I think that if you perceive yourself unlimited you can enjoy life without attachment. Unlimited doesn't mean that you perceive yourself as God, but rather as the incessant becoming, and beyond that, as the ultimate nature of that becoming. But I don't know to what extent it's possible to maintain that perspective when serious problems arise. What is certain is that, as you've said, if you build a life based on attachments, suffering is guaranteed. The human structure will always exist, it is necessary, but I would say that the idea is for it to be a useful structure that allows the greatest possible openness to the substance, the freest possible flow. A closed structure is the one that needs to assert itself, since it takes center stage. You are more the structure than the flow, and in this way you become attached, bitter, full of fear and suffering